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EVE: How to get my friends hooked & their first PLEX
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-12-22 15:02:05 UTC
What me finally hooked in was the adrenaline rush of solo PvP in a persistent single shard universe where loss matters. Being the hunter, being hunted, the good fights, the outplay, the unique and epic moments of fleet fights, the freedom of the sandbox. The "This is EvE" feeling. If you can successfully convey this to your friends ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Solecist Project
#22 - 2015-12-22 15:11:40 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Aha, this is another "I want EVE to be F2P" hidden agenda thing. Noted.


Still I'll alswer it: You show them options and let them decide for themselves what they're going to do, everyone is different and everyone has different drives, goals and turn offs. If they like it they'll pay for it, if they don't like it then they won't pay for it. If it were F2P they might try it a few times but if they didn't like it when it was sub based they won't like it F2P either, not enough to pay because then they'd pay for a sub too.

So there's no gain to be had for EVE to go F2P because all that'll happen is alts accounts with maxed/fleshed out alts stop paying sub and an onslaught of poorfag low IQ inbred morons who will clog up the intertubes, **** in all corners and never pay a dime.

I love you bigtime. <3

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jarsoom Blade
Blade's Legion
#23 - 2015-12-22 15:20:08 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Aha, this is another "I want EVE to be F2P" hidden agenda thing. Noted.


Haha, no hidden F2P agenda here :') I'm a supporter of the subscription model for EVE for sure.

Tipa Riot wrote:
What me finally hooked in was the adrenaline rush of solo PvP in a persistent single shard universe where loss matters. Being the hunter, being hunted, the good fights, the outplay, the unique and epic moments of fleet fights, the freedom of the sandbox. The "This is EvE" feeling. If you can successfully convey this to your friends ...


Good tip! Thank you!

"Two things I've learned lately. One: don't get jammed. And two: stationary ships don't react well to 1400's" - John Rourke, Clear Skies 2
Mutiny Within
Intergalactic Restored Gravitational Aided Yields
#24 - 2015-12-22 17:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutiny Within
Every time I see these threads I think to myself... It's only 15 bucks ( and less if sub more than a month at a time). I don't understand what the big deal is. ITS ONLY 15 BUCKS. Notwithstanding people who live in countries where the average earnings is far less than Euro/NA general areas--this is at worst 2 hours of working a low paying McJob(R). It's 15 bucks for an entire month of entertainment. Let's think about that for a moment. 15 dollars...that's about the cost of a single ****** movie ticket that is over in 2 hours. A single 12 pack of ****** beer. A single bottle of half way decent wine. A dinner at a ****** restaurant (think some ****** place like Chili's). Two meals at terrible fast nasty food (that gives you heartburn and 5 days worth of fat in a single serving). 15 bucks doesn't even scratch the surface of what most people spend in a single week to eat/drink etc (smokes, beer, whatever). This topic has been beat to death, and I'm simply furthering the process, but bottom line is...It's not that much.

TL:DR: Unless you live in a country where $15 is a substantial amount... $15 a month isn't much for entertainment for a month. HTFU.
Lina Sovereign
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-12-22 17:41:18 UTC
Farming to PLEX is farming to play, I don't understand the goal to always farm to keep farming...
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#26 - 2015-12-22 18:02:02 UTC
I earned enough to buy my first plex after two months. It was when PLEX was 330M and I was running missions in a raven at the end of that time, raven that I bought from corpmate for a 80 M kernite batch, ravens were worth 80 M that time. My first "serious" money was 40M was first week ninja salvaging others missions. Now after years of playing this money semms funny, but it was a lot for me back then.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Top Guac
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-12-22 22:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Top Guac
Solecist Project wrote:
If every new player started subbing with ISK ...
... then less people pay money for the game.

So when 5000 new players join over time and not a single one ever puts real money into CCPs wallet ...
... you think that won't have negative impact?

For an account to PLEX, someone else has to buy that PLEX with real life cash.

So:

Player 1, subscribed and the owner buys a PLEX to sell for ISK ($ invested = 1 x subscription, 1 x PLEX)
Player 2, new player looking to PLEX. Spends heaps of time in game to earn ISK, buys PLEX for ISK from Player 1

Net CCP income: 1 x subscription, 1 x PLEX


Alternatively, both players subscribe

Net CCP income: 2 x subscription


Quote:
Do you really believe that those who buy PLEX with money to sell on the market can sustain this forever?


While there is demand for the PLEX and Player 1 above (and all the other subscribers) have the means to buy PLEX and want to, then it will be sustained and PLEX will continue to rise.

At some point (different for each person), the price of PLEX will exceed the amount of ISK Player 2 (and others in the PLEXing group) can generate, or the Player 1 group will not want/be able to supply to the demand.

Then the Player 2 group have to make a decision to either subscribe, or not play.

Quote:
The "those who sub with plex still bring money" crowd forgets, that ...
... it's always better when two pay with real money ...
... compared to only one doing it.

The only difference is in terms of where the transaction appear in CCP's balance sheet.

People who PLEX their account are just as much invested in Eve and those who pay by subscription. Both pay, just by different means.
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2015-12-22 22:41:36 UTC
I have a one year subscription, and I admit to having bought both PLEX and AURUM with real money. I have no problem with paying for my gaming.

But let's be clear, the monthly subscription fee for EVE is high. It is pointless to compare this with how much you can earn flipping burgers, or how much clubbing costs.

The appropriate comparison is of course to other computer games. And compared to those, EVE is fairly expensive. I buy my regular games in Steam sales, and rarely pay more than about two months worth of EVE even for top titles.

But even if you compare this to buying AAA titles straight up, with no discount, one year of EVE will cost about the same as buying one or two AAA titles.

So the question is not whether EVE is worth few cups of coffee, or whatever. The question is how it compares with other computer games. Computer games just are a fairly cheap form of entertainment, and that is the market EVE is actually competing in...
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-12-22 23:05:20 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:

So the question is not whether EVE is worth few cups of coffee, or whatever. The question is how it compares with other computer games. Computer games just are a fairly cheap form of entertainment, and that is the market EVE is actually competing in...

EvE is still a unique product, you can't compare it with other games. Hence I think a premium is totally justified (if there is any after calculating total costs). Cool

I'm my own NPC alt.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#30 - 2015-12-23 03:26:25 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
They could but 10 100mil items for 0.01... that would get them pretty much there

It probably doesn't help that you are getting them killed in gate-camps - 'the works' - as that sort of thing is distracting


ikr, when they finally made 100 mil and I say "buy yourself a battlecruiser for which you have zero skill and money and let's go look for fights!" Classic.[/quote]

Yes, precisely...

I advise you, to advise them, to study the market and make suitable investments... and you jump to the conclusion that it is somehow about what ship you fly. Classic.

And no doubt the reason that your friends can't earn plex, and don't want to fly with you. Classic

oh and btw, by the end of the trial period, they will easily be in a battlecruiser, and could just as easily be in a battleship... providing they aren't wasting their time, and ISK, getting killed at gatecamps and the 'works'. Classic
Jarsoom Blade
Blade's Legion
#31 - 2015-12-23 09:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarsoom Blade
Paul Pohl wrote:
[quote=Paul Pohl]They could but 10 100mil items for 0.01... that would get them pretty much there

It probably doesn't help that you are getting them killed in gate-camps - 'the works' - as that sort of thing is distracting
ikr, when they finally made 100 mil and I say "buy yourself a battlecruiser for which you have zero skill and money and let's go look for fights!" Classic.
Yes, precisely...

I advise you, to advise them, to study the market and make suitable investments... and you jump to the conclusion that it is somehow about what ship you fly. Classic.

And no doubt the reason that your friends can't earn plex, and don't want to fly with you. Classic

oh and btw, by the end of the trial period, they will easily be in a battlecruiser, and could just as easily be in a battleship... providing they aren't wasting their time, and ISK, getting killed at gatecamps and the 'works'. Classic


Mate. Learn sarcasm. Your passive-aggresiveness isn't helping me.

"Two things I've learned lately. One: don't get jammed. And two: stationary ships don't react well to 1400's" - John Rourke, Clear Skies 2
Solecist Project
#32 - 2015-12-23 09:18:26 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
If every new player started subbing with ISK ...
... then less people pay money for the game.

So when 5000 new players join over time and not a single one ever puts real money into CCPs wallet ...
... you think that won't have negative impact?

For an account to PLEX, someone else has to buy that PLEX with real life cash.

So:

Player 1, subscribed and the owner buys a PLEX to sell for ISK ($ invested = 1 x subscription, 1 x PLEX)
Player 2, new player looking to PLEX. Spends heaps of time in game to earn ISK, buys PLEX for ISK from Player 1

Net CCP income: 1 x subscription, 1 x PLEX


Alternatively, both players subscribe

Net CCP income: 2 x subscription


Quote:
Do you really believe that those who buy PLEX with money to sell on the market can sustain this forever?


While there is demand for the PLEX and Player 1 above (and all the other subscribers) have the means to buy PLEX and want to, then it will be sustained and PLEX will continue to rise.

At some point (different for each person), the price of PLEX will exceed the amount of ISK Player 2 (and others in the PLEXing group) can generate, or the Player 1 group will not want/be able to supply to the demand.

Then the Player 2 group have to make a decision to either subscribe, or not play.

Quote:
The "those who sub with plex still bring money" crowd forgets, that ...
... it's always better when two pay with real money ...
... compared to only one doing it.

The only difference is in terms of where the transaction appear in CCP's balance sheet.

People who PLEX their account are just as much invested in Eve and those who pay by subscription. Both pay, just by different means.

How you can even attempt to argue here ...

When two people put money into CCPs wallet ...
... it's better than only one person doing it.



Your post is a waste of space. Roll

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#33 - 2015-12-23 09:40:06 UTC
Jarsoom Blade wrote:


So how does a trial character, with limitations to his/her skill-learning and playtime, realistically go about getting his or her first PLEX in such a short time span?



i advice you not to push for this, this is a disaster waiting to happen. this will burn-out your friends.

it should be the other way around buy PLEX rl and sell it in-game for isk.

Just Add Water
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#34 - 2015-12-25 20:01:03 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Tristan Agion wrote:

So the question is not whether EVE is worth few cups of coffee, or whatever. The question is how it compares with other computer games. Computer games just are a fairly cheap form of entertainment, and that is the market EVE is actually competing in...

EvE is still a unique product, you can't compare it with other games. Hence I think a premium is totally justified (if there is any after calculating total costs). Cool

Games can and are compared all the time. Maybe there are people who think they shouldnt, but they are. That is a fact. EVE doesnt really comes out a loser from those comparisons after all. 30 thousand people daily in peaks isnt bad.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#35 - 2015-12-25 20:38:58 UTC
A few years ago I started a new alt to try something out. As a proof of concept.
The question I asked myself was if I could make a billion Isk with station trading without ever undocking, starting with just the skills and the initial 5000 Isk every new character gets.

The answer was yes. Within two weeks.

However, I knew how the market worked, I knew what to trade for optimal profit. It was also utterly boring to do and essentially I had to use all my available game time on that alt to pull it off.
Mind you, I know for a fact that some others did similar things with similar results even faster.

I would never recommend it to new players. Unless you want to chase them out of the game never to return.....

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#36 - 2015-12-25 21:46:28 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
I have a one year subscription, and I admit to having bought both PLEX and AURUM with real money. I have no problem with paying for my gaming.

But let's be clear, the monthly subscription fee for EVE is high. It is pointless to compare this with how much you can earn flipping burgers, or how much clubbing costs.

The appropriate comparison is of course to other computer games. And compared to those, EVE is fairly expensive. I buy my regular games in Steam sales, and rarely pay more than about two months worth of EVE even for top titles.

But even if you compare this to buying AAA titles straight up, with no discount, one year of EVE will cost about the same as buying one or two AAA titles.

So the question is not whether EVE is worth few cups of coffee, or whatever. The question is how it compares with other computer games. Computer games just are a fairly cheap form of entertainment, and that is the market EVE is actually competing in...


hilarious nonsense again.

Do tell us how many hours of play time you realistically get from such an AAA title, on average. Now compare that to EVE playing hours. Seriously people, stop trying to push some agenda by drowning it in words and applying some :logic: 9 times out of 10 your logic is flawed and terrible is a very obvious way.

Your cleverly made up posts, paragraphs and amazing explanations to try and push/hide your agenda aren't as clever as you think they are.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#37 - 2015-12-26 02:49:59 UTC
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
Trying to plex your account right when it's most difficult and requires the most grinding? You're setting them up for failure unless they scam or market trade pretty much.


Wormholes present substantially easier reward for effort than people think. Sure you might not be able to plex after 1 month but by the end of month #3 it would easily be managable. I knew a guy who made about 900mil per day in a c3->c3.
lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
#38 - 2015-12-26 03:26:09 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
If every new player started subbing with ISK ...
... then less people pay money for the game.

So when 5000 new players join over time and not a single one ever puts real money into CCPs wallet ...
... you think that won't have negative impact?

For an account to PLEX, someone else has to buy that PLEX with real life cash.

So:

Player 1, subscribed and the owner buys a PLEX to sell for ISK ($ invested = 1 x subscription, 1 x PLEX)
Player 2, new player looking to PLEX. Spends heaps of time in game to earn ISK, buys PLEX for ISK from Player 1

Net CCP income: 1 x subscription, 1 x PLEX


Alternatively, both players subscribe

Net CCP income: 2 x subscription


Quote:
Do you really believe that those who buy PLEX with money to sell on the market can sustain this forever?


While there is demand for the PLEX and Player 1 above (and all the other subscribers) have the means to buy PLEX and want to, then it will be sustained and PLEX will continue to rise.

At some point (different for each person), the price of PLEX will exceed the amount of ISK Player 2 (and others in the PLEXing group) can generate, or the Player 1 group will not want/be able to supply to the demand.

Then the Player 2 group have to make a decision to either subscribe, or not play.

Quote:
The "those who sub with plex still bring money" crowd forgets, that ...
... it's always better when two pay with real money ...
... compared to only one doing it.

The only difference is in terms of where the transaction appear in CCP's balance sheet.

People who PLEX their account are just as much invested in Eve and those who pay by subscription. Both pay, just by different means.

How you can even attempt to argue here ...

When two people put money into CCPs wallet ...
... it's better than only one person doing it.



Your post is a waste of space. Roll


It's only logical to argue against an argument which seems to be based on some emotional e-honour kind of thing rather than a valid explanation.
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-12-26 11:18:04 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
hilarious nonsense again. Do tell us how many hours of play time you realistically get from such an AAA title, on average. Now compare that to EVE playing hours. Seriously people, stop trying to push some agenda by drowning it in words and applying some :logic: 9 times out of 10 your logic is flawed and terrible is a very obvious way. Your cleverly made up posts, paragraphs and amazing explanations to try and push/hide your agenda aren't as clever as you think they are.

What "agenda" do you think I'm pushing here?

I have 400+ hours in Crusader Kings 2 on Steam, and high numbers of hours in some other games as well. I also have other "top titles" that I don't play a lot, of course. I don't think a simple average over these is particularly meaningful. A "top title" that remains more or less unused in my Steam library (after some initial play) is more like somebody who subscribed to Eve but then let the subscription run out. There are plenty of people like that!

Anyway, marketing isn't based on perfectly rational calculus. If EVE is perceived as expensive, then that reduces its sales about as much as if it is expensive. The point I made was quite simple: compared to other products in the market EVE is actually competing - computer games - EVE appears fairly expensive. It makes no sense to talk it up as cheap in comparison to people's earnings or other products in other markets. That's not how people make their buying decisions: they will compare to similar products in the same market.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-12-26 11:42:39 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
hilarious nonsense again. Do tell us how many hours of play time you realistically get from such an AAA title, on average. Now compare that to EVE playing hours. Seriously people, stop trying to push some agenda by drowning it in words and applying some :logic: 9 times out of 10 your logic is flawed and terrible is a very obvious way. Your cleverly made up posts, paragraphs and amazing explanations to try and push/hide your agenda aren't as clever as you think they are.

What "agenda" do you think I'm pushing here?

I have 400+ hours in Crusader Kings 2 on Steam, and high numbers of hours in some other games as well. I also have other "top titles" that I don't play a lot, of course. I don't think a simple average over these is particularly meaningful. A "top title" that remains more or less unused in my Steam library (after some initial play) is more like somebody who subscribed to Eve but then let the subscription run out. There are plenty of people like that!

Anyway, marketing isn't based on perfectly rational calculus. If EVE is perceived as expensive, then that reduces its sales about as much as if it is expensive. The point I made was quite simple: compared to other products in the market EVE is actually competing - computer games - EVE appears fairly expensive. It makes no sense to talk it up as cheap in comparison to people's earnings or other products in other markets. That's not how people make their buying decisions: they will compare to similar products in the same market.


Perceived by who? Trained apes? It doesn't take a genius to work out how cheap EVE actually is, and if people are judging it at a glance, then they were probably never going to stick around anyway, so they are literally no loss.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104