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Increase SP acquisition for new accounts
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Memphis Baas
#41 - 2015-12-21 04:52:06 UTC
Issue 1: New players don't have many skill points.

Issue 2: New players don't have enough ISK to afford the bigger ships.

Issue 3: Even with access to bigger ships, new players don't have the game knowledge to PVP vs. the veterans (as demonstrated when CCP gave everyone 0-skill cruisers a few Christmases ago).

Issue 4: There is no differentiation between a true newbie creating a new character (and receiving a bunch of stuff), and a veteran creating a new character (to receive the same stuff).

It's been done in the past. Free skillpoints means we just create ready-to-go suicide gank alts to kill you, the more skillpoints the bigger the ships we can gank you with. Free ISK means we just accumulate it all in the wallet, and since now everyone has lots of ISK, prices increase for everything (it's like printing money - money are worth less, things cost more).
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-12-21 04:54:41 UTC
The system is being improved 'soon' & everyone will gain SP at the same rate. Apart from that I don't agree with a 3x SP accumulation speed because older players like me will just abuse the hell out of it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-12-21 05:33:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Mr Epeen wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I've spent the last few weeks playing Fallout 4 and despite loving the game, it lost a lot of its heart and soul when the dialogue wheel was introduced and the karma system removed.
The karma system never worked and I don't mind the dumbed down dialogue system too much. What's killing me (literally) is that you can't play as a total fukwad. Half the NPCs don't even acknowledge you shooting them and the other half murder you without taking the least bit of damage. I want to kill everyone. Children, NPCs, companions and quest specific characters alike. Just like the good old days of FO3.



The whole idea of 'essential' NPCs is what tells me Fallout is essentially finished with this title. F4 signifies the decline of the series if they intend to make more. The thought of anything being unkillable in this game makes me squirm, but it's still 'Fallout' enough to enjoy it. It is on its way out though. I don't think they'll make another Fallout though, not without a huge engine overhaul, and then it will probably just be another linear QTE fest like every other 'AAA' release that all too easily amuses the mindless masses.

Off topic, I know, but I had to say as much. I've been there since the original was little more than a lonely box on a shelf that everyone walked past, an underrated abstract that few even knew existed. I knew with F3, though, when it started going into FPS realms, that it wouldn't have many more titles before it dies out. Vegas was surprisingly good, but still not truly Fallout as far as I'm concerned.

The Karma system worked fine though, when Interplay did it. Bethesda just broke it. Probably why they dropped it, because they suck at it.

They did do one thing right this time though. Letting us build our own stuff is awesome. Now for some shameless self-promotion...

My Spectacle Island

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

The gallery for my settlement there actually has a lot more pics, but I don't wanna push my luck posting off topic like this Oops

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2015-12-21 05:48:40 UTC
Any system that allows vet characters to create instant high SP alts while suckering new players into investing lots of SP into useless things like battleships they are not ready to fly and will just lose anyway is not a good thing.

Aside from which dumbing down to suck in "churn" players wanting to instantly level and try some new shiney toys may seem a cunning way to increase subs to the degreed marketing types but it is invariably a massive fail - just look at 4th Ed D&D for an example.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#45 - 2015-12-21 11:02:43 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Issue 1: New players don't have many skill points.

Issue 2: New players don't have enough ISK to afford the bigger ships.

Issue 3: Even with access to bigger ships, new players don't have the game knowledge to PVP vs. the veterans (as demonstrated when CCP gave everyone 0-skill cruisers a few Christmases ago).

Issue 4: There is no differentiation between a true newbie creating a new character (and receiving a bunch of stuff), and a veteran creating a new character (to receive the same stuff).

It's been done in the past. Free skillpoints means we just create ready-to-go suicide gank alts to kill you, the more skillpoints the bigger the ships we can gank you with. Free ISK means we just accumulate it all in the wallet, and since now everyone has lots of ISK, prices increase for everything (it's like printing money - money are worth less, things cost more).



And there is the issue of a true newbie not knowing what it is they should be training to fit their playstyle
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#46 - 2015-12-21 11:11:09 UTC
Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim.
Solecist Project
#47 - 2015-12-21 11:29:44 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim.

And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#48 - 2015-12-21 11:34:07 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim.

And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions...


thats the problem. as soon as you start the game you are pretty much forced into mining or missions, no wonder people quit the game when they are forced into the 2 most boring activities in the game

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#49 - 2015-12-21 11:35:32 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim.

And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions...


thats the problem. as soon as you start the game you are pretty much forced into mining or missions, no wonder people quit the game when they are forced into the 2 most boring activities in the game


No, you're not. It's just the two most obvious things to do, especially to people who are used to grind MMO's. But it certainly isn't the only thing to do.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#50 - 2015-12-21 11:43:18 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim.

And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions...


thats the problem. as soon as you start the game you are pretty much forced into mining or missions, no wonder people quit the game when they are forced into the 2 most boring activities in the game


No, you're not. It's just the two most obvious things to do, especially to people who are used to grind MMO's. But it certainly isn't the only thing to do.


i wasn't shown anything pvp related in tutorials (the new system may have changed), nothing about fitting ships, what scrams and points do, counter measures, different space and what sort of precautions you should take when traveling there.

I was use to the mmo grind and would avoid it by using rl money as my income and cant remember being shown anything other than missions and mining

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Vivias Xelnoa
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2015-12-21 13:52:38 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Issue 1: New players don't have many skill points.

Issue 2: New players don't have enough ISK to afford the bigger ships.

Issue 3: Even with access to bigger ships, new players don't have the game knowledge to PVP vs. the veterans (as demonstrated when CCP gave everyone 0-skill cruisers a few Christmases ago).

Issue 4: There is no differentiation between a true newbie creating a new character (and receiving a bunch of stuff), and a veteran creating a new character (to receive the same stuff).

It's been done in the past. Free skillpoints means we just create ready-to-go suicide gank alts to kill you, the more skillpoints the bigger the ships we can gank you with. Free ISK means we just accumulate it all in the wallet, and since now everyone has lots of ISK, prices increase for everything (it's like printing money - money are worth less, things cost more).




Best response I've seen to it. From that vantage point I can understand why a system like that would be more of a burden then a blessing.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#52 - 2015-12-21 13:54:06 UTC
just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Solecist Project
#53 - 2015-12-21 13:56:20 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game

Exactly.

Some people are so stuck in believing their egos matter, it's ruining the game for them.

Waahwaaah can't compete, too slow, too hard, waahwaah

If people weren't such babies nowadays we wouldn't have this mess.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#54 - 2015-12-21 14:10:44 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game

Exactly.

Some people are so stuck in believing their egos matter, it's ruining the game for them.

Waahwaaah can't compete, too slow, too hard, waahwaah

If people weren't such babies nowadays we wouldn't have this mess.


i think these new players seem to think that they should be able to kill the 10+ year old player on day 1, if they cant then its inbalanced, thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Leeluvv
United Caldari Navy
United Caldari Space Command.
#55 - 2015-12-21 14:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Leeluvv
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:

If this is true why do so many corps have huge SP requirements? To my this seems to illustrate the fact these points are very important because if it was simply knowledge they could teach that.


The SP requirement is often more about experience than actual skills, which aligns with all the other advice in this thread. i.e. The actual SP value isn't important, it's about your attitude and what you do as a player, not what the number of the top of your sheet says.

We often fly HACs, but we recognise that new players can't, so we have a T1 Cruiser fit for them instead. Hell, even the high SP characters like flying T1 cruisers.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#56 - 2015-12-21 14:26:41 UTC
Leeluvv wrote:
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:

If this is true why do so many corps have huge SP requirements? To my this seems to illustrate the fact these points are very important because if it was simply knowledge they could teach that.


The SP requirement is often more about experience than actual skills.


Its actually quite easy to get into a corp if you are below the "requirement" just show a little enthusiasm and willingness to learn, unless you are going into a wormhole then the sp requirement is usually pretty legit as they do require pretty high skills for t3's and scanning etc.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Solecist Project
#57 - 2015-12-21 14:28:22 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game

Exactly.

Some people are so stuck in believing their egos matter, it's ruining the game for them.

Waahwaaah can't compete, too slow, too hard, waahwaah

If people weren't such babies nowadays we wouldn't have this mess.


i think these new players seem to think that they should be able to kill the 10+ year old player on day 1, if they cant then its inbalanced, thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works

Self esteem issues. People raised and educated by marketing and neuroscience.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Leeluvv
United Caldari Navy
United Caldari Space Command.
#58 - 2015-12-21 14:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Leeluvv
Lan Wang wrote:


i think these new players seem to think that they should be able to kill the 10+ year old player on day 1, if they cant then its inbalanced, thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works


I think it's simpler than that. They forget that Eve is really is a MMO and that they need to learn to play as a team. They are often too busy thinking as an individual and what they 'want', instead of asking how they can help their team succeed. T1 frigate tackle/scout is often better than a vet, as you may want the high SP char in a specialist ship, such as a recon, command ship or logistics, etc.
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-12-21 14:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Otso Bakarti
Mr Epeen wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I've spent the last few weeks playing Fallout 4 and despite loving the game, it lost a lot of its heart and soul when the dialogue wheel was introduced and the karma system removed.
The karma system never worked and I don't mind the dumbed down dialogue system too much. What's killing me (literally) is that you can't play as a total fukwad. Half the NPCs don't even acknowledge you shooting them and the other half murder you without taking the least bit of damage. I want to kill everyone. Children, NPCs, companions and quest specific characters alike. Just like the good old days of FO3.

So lame.

As for the topic at hand. I'd have no problem with an increased skill training speed. It's kind of like in real life when you are making the same money year after year but the price of everything keeps rising. Same with this game. Replace inflation with continually adding new skills and your static wage with the never increasing skill speed.

It wouldn't hurt the game to increase it slightly, in my opinion.

For everyone, though. The nublets just got that large boost to starting SP, so they're fine.

Mr Epeen Cool
This contradicts your signature just a tad. And I quote

"There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'. Congratulations, dumbass!"

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Jade Blackwind
#60 - 2015-12-21 14:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Blackwind
Skill points somewhat matter until maybe 5-8 million SP, depends on what you aim to achieve, and progressively less and less after that.

Ultimately Eve is not about points. It's about the player's understanding of the game and the meta-game (which is often is more important than the game) and, unfortunately, the player's social skills.

Once, I created a fresh alt and made a few very good posts with it. The said alt then got "accepted" in a certain subset of the community and soon was literally bombarded with recruitment offers from several visible alliances. The security checks ultimately revealed that she was an alt, so it went nowhere, but if she were a true newbie, she would have a smorgasbord of choices about which famous player organization to join. All that because of a single forum thread. True story.

Bear

That character had like no skill points at all. Those who think that they need ship x or module x to enjoy the game are doing it horribly wrong.

(There is a gap between certain groups of players and the rest, but it isn't skill point related.)