Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I am sorry to be a mean girl but you shouldn't believe what you see on some list someone created to make a point. I can make make another list and show you how awesome they are.

Other that cargohold, signature resolution (not size damnit, look it up what that value does) and some minor tweaks to the base targetting range battleships are fine as is.

Maybe a 2 day old character shouldn't be flying them and making proposals that would undo everything that happened since Crucible.

EVE does not need a tech 3 battleship for the sake of tech3 - zee END.

What is this one role you think battleships fill?

or they undock 3 archons for one Megathron and 3 cruisers, you can never be sure enough..

I think over all they play a role as heavy fleet tank/dps. More suited to Fleets and solo Mission runners. Which is fine, from what I can see I have not little tweaks I would want to change to the current BS line up. However, as mentioned, their overall use in Eve is a small fraction. I just want to see that fraction get a little larger with a T3 BS that is capable in the ways that I have mentioned. The gap should not jump from Cruisers to Caps like it does now. And like I said, I think the best counter to a T3 BS is a small feet of T1 BS thus increasing the uses for all BS all the while not hurting what they do now.




And that's awesome! But would you ever undock in a BS solo? Not so fun without being part of a small gang with around 10 ships with support...

I did - ooops

I'll show you how this looks hopefully very early next year when I get the editing done.

So you're looking for a solo BS pwnmobile? Then (because they are bigger) dreads should be even better pwnmobiles. Next you'll want Dreads with 3 siegable main guns, a rack of 5 medium guns for those pesky BS and cruisers that dare to enter your grid, and of course some sort of point defense because it's unfair that a frigate would be able to do anything but die horribly in the presence of such gradure!


Frigate - fast, low damage - ideal for solo stuff

Cruiser - small, versatile, many varieances - can be made to brawl, snipe, kite and so on - has solo options

BC - you're getting bigger and slower, but packing more firepower - there are some litte things that can tackle you and give you a bad day if you're not careful.

BS - big, slow and respectable dps/tank - there are a lot of ships that can outmanuever you - there are a few situational solo options, but you're big and slow enough that support is recommended.

Dreads - solo = loot pinata - support ships required

Carriers and drone based BS - have the option to deploy anti frigate damage (small drones). While a carrier can by design have an endless supply of warrior 1s, a BS can not. These ships have a smaller degree of survivability without support, but to a good gang w/ average skills and brains - still a loot pinata.

So you see, the BS is on that slippery slope just barely hanging on to solo abilities under certain conditions. It's the bridge between 'Small fast' and 'large needs support'. It is the middle ground. You need to embrace what it is and that it is better with support. That's how it will always be. There have been instances over eve's history where a BS here or there popped into solo status (bee hive domi, nano phoon and so on), but these were patched out as OP. Overall a lot of you folks are asking for BS to be OP.

BS do best with support. Based on the progression of the game they have stepped aside as the damage dealers in large fleet fights and been replaced by dreads and carriers. If you really want to bring BS back into mainstream null fighting you'll have to do some painful (but in my opinion good for the game) things:
1. Remove space magic from citadels. If your citadel holding your stockpile of alliance archons gets blown up - you archon fleet should be half destroyed and half floating in the wreckage of the station. Until these vast warehouses actually become exposed to risk - there will be no place for BS. It's just better to stockpile caps than BS. If your alliance gets attacked would you rather hand out high powered assault rifles or combat knives? Totally safe storage dictates you stockpile the big expensive stuff.
2. Get rid of system upgrades. There is too much isk coming into the game AND there is no such thing as bad space in eve right now. You can make good isk anywhere and there is pretty much no need to fight over identical space. It's all just alloted out and has become farmville in space. There is no need to take your neighbors stuff, there is currently enough for everyone.
3. Get rid of the tools that fuel the great arsenals - botting and moon goo. Botting is obvious bad for the economy and passive static monopolized isk income is too. (I don't want to start a moon goo debate - there are plenty of those elsewhere)

Uptweaking BS stats won't suddenly make them better than a capital fleet and making them solo pwnmobiles will in the end **** off more folks than it makes happy. If some of the core eve issues are addressed - BS might creep back toward their prior place of glory. BS stats are balanced and in a good spot for the ship class - some other parts of eve are out of whack and making them appear bad.

Yes, I would not mind seeing that.





You make many valid points I completely agree on. I'm not asking for a revamp of the class to change its roll as it does have its place in the Eve Ship line up. I'm just trying to see a bigger balancing picture that effects the counter to large scale Alliances and the resources they have in terms of bring out fleets that out number the small guys. Would one really expensive BS really effect the BS class? I doubt it. Would a strong solo T3 BS (expensive loot pinata for a small counter T1 BS counter gang) be any different then T3 cruisers or T3 Destroyers?

I think most of Eve is missing the point/purpose of T3's. There meant to counter larger Null Alliances. Eve players are still a little behind of the times. Your average T3 producer should NOT be supplying the public market with T3 goodies so large Null corps can buy them so easily. We should be restricting Null Fleets to their T2's and Cap Fleets. The Imperium is going to tax the entirety of Eve if Eve does nothing to stop them. T3s are a long implemented counter in the event that the inevitable powers from Null seek to control more then a few Null Constellations. WH are the vain of Null. Its just nobody see it yet... And if Eve fails to see this, then Eve will die as fewer and fewer people are going to want to pay a tax to play the game outside of High Sec... We NEED T3 BS!

Bobby

You have some wild ideas. I think the rabbit hole is a bit deeper than you imagine. Right now WH space is going through a wierd transition - I'll be honest I can't quite see where it's headed atm. Right now aside - who do you think has been primarily owning/controlling wh space? There are a few independants, but over its history, the bulk of wh systems have been owned by members of large null blocks. I'm not saying a major alliance controlled wh space - I'm saying most of wh space was controlled by players with interests (characters) in large null alliances. WH space was not (for the most part) populated by anti null HS folks. I hope you can see the logic in that.

I'll use myself hypothetically. (Disclaimer - the following is just made up - no tin foil hats required) Pretend I have a character that is a director in a large SOV group. I have way more accounts than I know what to do with. I put some into these new wh things back when they were introduced. Woot, freeballin' smashmouth pvp w/ no strings. So I set up a system and stay a while. Me and my sov null buddies put a bunch of characters in the wh corp and it's a great diversion from the null hoo haw. (during this period of time null forms a blue donut and becomes stagnant) I'm playing both sides of the fence.

Do you really think with my close ties to SOV null alliances I would give up a lucrative railgu production line just to bring my other self to my knees?


I'll give you the punch line. SOV null is boring. From cyno jammers to timers of interest to upgrades (which make ALL of sov null good space and NONE of sov null space worth fighting to take) to blue donuts and so on. We've conned CCP into making a great farmland in the interest of maintaining accounts. There currently isn't really a compelling reason to initiate conflict in SOV null. Feel free to name one if you can come up with something.

I'll give you the moral of the story. Anyone playing the game for a decade has a few mature alts. The mains stay in SOV null winning eve and the alts go one of several paths to actually have fun. RvB (where everyones alts became blue donut BFFS), marmites (or a marmite style HS player farming corp), FW for the frigate heads and last but not least - wh space. You hold SOV in null to show that you are winning eve and you go have fun in one of the above mentioned places according to your interests. (Incursions - some null guys stopped off there for a bit, but very few stayed - hard core farming like that just wears most players down)

So good times are had on alts and once every 8 months or so someone goes bonehead causing someone else to call for an underpants on heads response and it snowballs into BR. Those fights aren't strategic. They are one group capitalizing on anothers bad move. There's no meaningful anything, just occaisional happenstance.

The bane (vain??) of sov null alliances would be HS incursions. It's just awesome isk for no risk. A lot of folks get drawn in and don't get pulled to null. The saving grace that keeps sov null folks out of incursions for the most part is the large requirement of time spent in mind numbing rat shooting. There are just better things to do.

There is no 'anti null' purpose behind T3 in general. Choking the market won't affect sov null at all.

Say no to dishonor drone battleships .