Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Just pondering on how little use in general Battleships get used in Eve. Generally we use T3/Pirate Faction Cruiser ships and skip right on to Dreads and Carriers. Sure the 2 T2 Battleships are sweet but they don't quite fit enough use in most situations to justify flying them more then they are now.

So here's an idea:
One the the 'weakness' that BS have is they have a hard time tracking/hit smaller targets making them quite vulnerable. These beast are huge and have plenty of room for more guns. But more guns does not necessarily mean better. How about, just like the T3 Destroyers have multiple modes, we give a BS (T3 or T2) the ability to have a second row of guns. One set for Large Weapons of course, and the other for smaller weapons. Could have 3 rows, covering all size weapons, but I'm in no place to judge balancing vs meta of the game. You wont be able to fire your Large guns with your Medium guns, but you can switch between them with a 10 sec delay.

Now some might say, "well that's what drones are for". Such a ship can still have its drones, but think of how fun if you could use the other non dps drones with this ship. Instead of relying on a set of Light Drones to cover your close range targets, you now got Small weapons more then capable to handle them, you use Web drones to catch stuff as they were meant to, or neut drones to cap someone, or, or, or... endless possibilities! Could be a fun solo BS, or a great Missions ship, or a better small fleet roaming ship as it will cover diverse situations without the need to reship. And $$$ enough yet to be hunted as it wont unbalance any other classes.

Would this ship be OP? I doubt it as its DPS would not be bonuses in any significant way to out class other DPS BS counter ships. Maybe have a Class penalty with say a 25% reduction to range to prevent them from replacing/countering Sniper setups. This ship wont have any special DPS, rather the ability to cover/counter a range of different ship sizes. It will easily leave the BS Marauder class to do the heavy DPS.

EDIT
No DPS drones

As for the drones, and this is just an idea: Make it so it can't operate combat drones. Only utility drones. Kinda 'force' us to use them. If we're talking about building a T3 here, like the other T3's, they are quite vastly different from T1's and T2's in operation and even the Dessy and Cruiser don't operate in the same matter, why should a T3 BS be different. How about the ablity to target itself with its own drones! Get use out of using them to repair itself! Or web itself so that it can turn around faster! lolz

EDIT
Personal Flagship

Been thinking the T3 line up should be considered a Flagships that we can own/use relative to its class and costs. And as the ISK/SP keeps on growing for the Eve Players, wont it be nice to have a mobile 'base of operations'. Give it a Fleet Bay big enough to hold a Cruiser class ship with some other smaller odds and ends. Put a lock on the ship so we can exit the Mother Ship and board another ship with the risk of someone else 'just jumping into it'. So maybe a mission runner can get out and do a mission a BS cant enter the gate for an example, run the mission and come back 'home'. When you unboard the ship, any cap stable modules should remain ON for defense. Make use of the auto targeting module perhaps as well...




Name (working tittle)

SHIP BONUSES

Gallente Royal Sovereign Battleship Bonuses Per Level:
7.5% bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer amount
10% bonus to Warp Scrambler optimal range (because this is an anti tackle ship)

Misc Bonus:
Switch Weapon Rack with 10 second delay
Can dock/undock while ship uncloaked, Active Module remains active pending Cap Stability
Lockable Hull (nobody can fly it/steal it while it floats in space while your off in another ship)
-20% Optimal Range (not a sniper ship)
20% Rate of Fire
Can't Operate Combat Drones, Self Targeting Logi Drones with 50% Logi bonus

Ship Attributes to note:
8 High slots: 1 Launcher 6 Turrets 2nd Mode: 5 Turrets
Mass + Volume goes up, it should be the biggest BS
1000m3 Cargo, 4000m3 Fuel, 200000m3 Fleet Bay
600 Rig Calibration (better use of T2 Rigs)


EDIT:
People are right to say that adding another ship to the game wont fix the game. So its important for this ship to work and be balanced the following changes need to happen:
1) Remove insurance from all T3 ships.
2) Increase the Dessy Hull prices to aprox 160M. They cant be cheap!
3) When you lose a T3, you lose SP like the cruisers. Make it SP cheap enough that everyone flys them at 5, and would take aprox 2 days to retrain back into 5.
4) Maybe another counter to all T3, is that they cant be remote repaired?

There, powerful ships with a powerful drawback. We need T3's to be strong as they are currently the only counter to Null sec meta vs the rest of Eve.

I'd say a normal set of turret hard points would be fair. Hypothetically lets say in Mode 1 your allowed 6 Large Weapons. In Mode 2 your still allowed to have 6 hard points to equip say Small Weapons. Would that be deadly to a solo frigate trying to catch the BS? Absolutely. One of the perks of such a ship is a lone tackle would have a hard time tackling. This BS should be majestic and capable, not OP, but capable. And with its 6 weapon slots, it should not sacrifice utility either if lets say it had a total of 8 highs. Those +2 highs would be the same regardless of what Mode it is in.

BS mobility is what it is and I would not change that. But if its window to do DPS on a wider variety of targets would make it more capable of taking on small gangs in smaller ships you might not need to run at all.

As for the drones, and this is just an idea: Make it so it can't operate combat drones. Only utility drones. Kinda 'force' us to use them. If we're talking about building a T3 here, like the other T3's, they are quite vastly different from T1's and T2's in operation and even the Dessy and Cruiser don't operate in the same matter, why should a T3 BS be different. How about the ablity to target itself with its own drones! Get use out of using them to repair itself! Or web itself so that it can turn around faster! lolz

I agree. But in context to how popular other T3 ships are used compared to their T1 and T2 counterparts. Price is still a large factor into the equation and I'm sure such a ship if it were to be T3 wont be cheap. (But lets hope CCP fixes how cheap T3 Destroyers are.)

The Marauder will and should be a stronger DPS/Tank platform. And the Covert BS do their own thing when needed. T1 BS will be much like the rest of the T1 line up: Rather disposable fun ships that most people can derp around in. In fact, arguably speaking it could give the T1 BS an edge because of that. T1 BS damage could be a good counter for the T3 BS... when you have small gang of them... And as for the Pirate BS's. I don't see how it would effect them much at all. They have their niche that wont disappear so long as the T3 BS are not too cheap.

With that said, I think T3 Destroyers need to go up in price to about 160M a Hull. And maybe even reduce the 50% damage to 25% to minimize the power creep they have added to the game. T3 ship should be capable versatile ships but not the best at everything. A great platform for those with the ISK/SP to consider them their personal jack of all ship, master of none platform. I think the T2 line really should be where Fleet Composition is made. Better then T1, and when fitted correctly and use correctly, the best of its 'trade' it was built for when you factor in the budget. Pirate Faction ships should be powerful for it's niche, and when you factor in its added cost to T2, they should be better. Pirate Faction ships also create a place to have those Ace in the hole, unique role that does not fit in with the Fleets of the 4 Empires.

T3 Cruisers from what I can tell are decently placed...

And hence the Multi Sized Weapon System BS would come in and provide a nice well rounded niche for itself in balance with the rest of Eve.

EDIT: You did say Faction BS... I can see them taking a minor loss. Their costs probably wont justify them too much other then for low SP pilots that want to fly something better then T1 but cant fly T2. Not saying Faction Ships are bad, they just seem to be a little pricey considering the other options available.

The extra hardpoints and whatnot isn't that great of an idea. However, having a T3 BS with 3 modes would be fantastic. In say shooter mode, the gunnery BS's get a bonus to tracking, the missile boats get a bonus to missile velocity and explosion radius.

If its built right, T3 BS should not effect the use of Machs, Apoc, Rattles, and Vindis. But if you look at data for ship uses you will find BS are way way down at the bottom of the list for DPS applied in game due to many reasons and should be given a little love so more people can justify their expense in both ISK and SP to fly them more then they are now. Not saying BS should get some magical rebalancing. That would not be good! But a BS capable of handling itself vs a small kitchen sink gang should exist.

Roughly speaking a gang of 5 frigates can get under the large weapons and apply enough DPS to take on a loan BS. I fear smaller stuff I cant deal with over another BS cause another BS will simply come down to who's got the best DPS/Tank then the other. 5 drones will have virtually no effect on that 5 man frigate gang unless your a drone boat.

I think the T3 line up is an idea choice for personal 'Flagships' relative to its class (size) and cost. It should be flown as a non disposable ship and the pride of any individuals collection. It should not be cheap, and it should not be easy to solo against. It should take a small gang careful selection of ships/tactics to take one out, or more likely, a hot drop or blob gang. A T3 BS will be another flagship we can choice. (Carriers being the only practical Flagship a normal Eve Player can aspire too). And I would think a T3 BS should be able to hold its own in a good fight vs a Carrier with the right build/tactics. But Super Carriers should be another animal for their costs. Super Carriers are just too expensive though for most players to justify getting and using with any sort of regularity.

And if that 5 man gang is out hunting BS, there will still be other BS they can hunt, just not that one.

Unfortunately you are right about one thing: Adding another broken ship to Eve is not needed. The current T3's do need some tweaking, but they are in the right ball park for their use and are welcomed to Eve. A T3 BS will be just as welcomed. But I will bet you if and when a T3 BS is released, it will start OP. If you ever notice, all new features implemented in any game usually always comes out OP till we the players have enough real world time so the developers can dial them in. I'm sure this will be true too, just got to give CCP some time to do their tweaks.

Think of it as more of an Anti Tackle personal mobile Star Base with enough DPS/Tank to solo just about everything you would normally do solo in sub caps with a Fleet Hanger just big enough to bring along a fitted Cruiser and some other smaller utility ships.

And it would be simple to balance T3's: Increase the cost of the Destroyer to aprox 160M and change the weapons bonus from 50% to 25% to take some of the DPS out of it. And remove the ability to insure T3's.

I have been saying it for years but if people really think battleships need help to make them viable in their eyes then the thing you need to do is whack t3 cruisers several times with the nerf bat. Buffing battleships to take on t3 cruisers will simply result in very overpowered battleships.

Only players who don't like to fit heavy neuts and webs on their BSs think T3Cs are OP. Again I say the only thing that makes T3Cs OP is their ability to receive logi from external sources. If you take that away they're actually underpowered.

Before any new BSs are added, CCP needs to do something (anything) for T2 BCs.



Edit: Shouldn't this post be moved to F & I??

You sound like you know what your doing with your T3's. Would you agree they have too much tank?

We have the T3D's that we know need rebalancing.
We also have the t3 cruisers which can generally outperform any subcap if fitted correctly.

Now, my proposal on t3 cruisers is to actually change them to battlecruisers.
Then, you'd be able to balance their speed and sig to better fit their capabilities.


As far as the idea of a t3 BS...
I like it, and I hate it..

I hate it because the. We come back to this OP ship that sits in game blapping stuff and it takes a year or 4 in order for CCP to rebalance them.

However, if done correctly they could be nice.

Couple of ideas on this:

1) 3 racks of high slots for small, medium, and large weapons..
2) NO utility highs... This is a gun boat, and it's versitility would lie in those guns.
3) 30 second delay on rack re-alignment, thus you can continuously hot swap.
4) Perhaps this ship would rely on Bastion. It gives us another ship to use bastion on, but also helps to counter-act the weapon versatility
5) not the highest DPS. Balanced to be moderate DPS with each weapon system.