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Carebear or Not Carebear
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#61 - 2015-12-20 04:15:11 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:


So let's try it again...

"Do you or do you not believe in a carebear conspiracy to ruin your game?"


Sorry, you are making a total strawman here. Nowhere did Tippia mention that there was some carebear consiracy to ruin her game. She didn't even argue that the existance of carebears affected her game negatively. So I don't see the point in raising the argument with her and demanding she confirm or deny it has any relavance at all.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-12-20 04:21:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I feel like Richard Dawkins asking questions about apostasy.

So let's try it again...

"Do you or do you not believe in a carebear conspiracy to ruin your game?"

Irrelevant.

Quote:
I mean complaining is an action not an attitude.

All actions it appears to be...
Then you're not actually looking and instead just being wilfully obtuse, like the man said.
All your list demonstrates is that action is not a useful defining characteristic, when what really separates them is the very obvious difference in attitude.


Fine. I'll take the refusal to answer the question as a moral victory.

Also you could have said that attitude is displayed through actions. I suppose that would haven been an acceptable response I think. Simply saying you cannot define carebear through actions seems kind of odd to me and a bit full of mental bigotry.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#63 - 2015-12-20 04:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Captain Tardbar wrote:
All actions it appears to be...

*sigh*
I guess I have to spell it out for you.

Example:
"A person who runs missions..." <-- action

"... and complains that people can interfere with his/her mission running activities..." <-- action and mentality

When a person speaks a certain way (or, in this case, "complains") they are not necessarily performing an action alone. They are revealing their mental state... their way of thinking.
It is through this they can be defined.

Another example:
"A person who does industry and hauls stuff around..." <-- action

"... but avoids any and all potentially profitable ventures and complains about it (because he/she doesn't want to expose him/herself to any possible risk)..." <--- action and mentality.

Again, a person refusing to accept possible risk and instead complain about it reveals their way thinking.
This thinking is how we define this person as a "carebear."


It is pretty straightforward.

How did you Veterans start?
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#64 - 2015-12-20 04:23:35 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:


So let's try it again...

"Do you or do you not believe in a carebear conspiracy to ruin your game?"


Sorry, you are making a total strawman here. Nowhere did Tippia mention that there was some carebear consiracy to ruin her game. She didn't even argue that the existance of carebears affected her game negatively. So I don't see the point in raising the argument with her and demanding she confirm or deny it has any relavance at all.



I'm perfectly fine with the statement that carebears to no affect her game negatively.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#65 - 2015-12-20 04:24:24 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
But the Tippia/Capt Tardbar argument does bring out the reason I posted. The attitude of my friends in FEAR was pretty much the same as Capt. Tardbar's. Tippia is arguing what I always believed before joining FEAR.

I guess it is a charged term like Family Value and should be ignored since everyone has their own idea what it means. Thanks for your input everyone. You've clarified a lot for me.


It simply doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. You just keep doing what you are doing. I salute you for it, and I do the same, I'm primarily a PVE minded player, but I understand that I'm playing a sandbox pvp game. Some people refuse to accept that and thus are eternally unhappy about EVE. It is no different from real life, I've seen unhappy people literally refuse to accept the reality of their situations, failing to understand that if they did accept it, they wouldn't be so unhappy (and might even be able to change their situations) lol.

My very favorite saying from this forum is in my bio:
Lfod Shi wrote:
.....This(!) is why I rat. The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2015-12-20 04:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
ShahFluffers wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
All actions it appears to be...

*sigh*
I guess I have to spell it out for you.

Example:
"A person who runs missions..." <-- action

"... and complains that people can interfere with his/her mission running activities..." <-- action and mentality

When a person speaks a certain way (or, in this case, "complains") they are not necessarily performing an action alone. They are revealing their mental state... their way of thinking.
It is through this they can be defined.

Another example:
"A person who does industry and hauls stuff around..." <-- action

"... but avoids any and all potentially profitable ventures and complains about it (because he/she doesn't want to expose him/herself to any possible risk)..." <--- action and mentality.

Again, a person's mentality is inferred by their refusal to accept risk and instead complain about it reveals their way thinking.
This thinking is how we define this person as a "carebear."


It is pretty straightforward.


But action and mentality still has action. I do not see how it could be otherwise.

Again, I do not see a problem if you state, "Action can define attitude."

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#67 - 2015-12-20 04:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Fine. I'll take the refusal to answer the question as a moral victory.
Too bad I didn't refuse to answer. I simply rejected both your false dichotomy and your paranoid hypothetical. I understand that you are achingly desperate to pull some kind of victory out of your nonsensical and off-topic strawman, but it won't happen. You are simply not capable of doing so.

Quote:
Also you could have said that attitude is displayed through actions.
I did.

Quote:
But action and mentality still has action.
…and the differentiating factor is the attitude.

Quote:
Again, I do not see a problem if you state, "Action can define attitude."
But that would be backwards and wrong. In actuality, it's the other way around. Whether an action is defined as A or B depends on the attitude behind that action.


Oh, and…
Quote:
I'm perfectly fine with the statement that carebears to no affect her game negatively.
No such statement will be forthcoming, so prepare to not be not-fine.
Pix Severus
Empty You
#68 - 2015-12-20 04:35:26 UTC
I think there is some high-level trolling going on in this thread, I'd be impressed if I could fully comprehend it.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#69 - 2015-12-20 04:36:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Fine. I'll take the refusal to answer the question as a moral victory.
Too bad I didn't refuse to answer. I simply rejected both your false dichotomy and your paranoid hypothetical. I understand that you are achingly desperate to pull some kind of victory out of your nonsensical and off-topic strawman, but it won't happen. You are simply not capable of doing so.

Quote:
Also you could have said that attitude is displayed through actions.
I did.

Quote:
But action and mentality still has action.
…and the differentiating factor is the attitude.

Quote:
Again, I do not see a problem if you state, "Action can define attitude."
But that would be backwards and wrong. In actuality, it's the other way around. Whether an action is defined as A or B depends on the attitude behind that action.


Oh I'm am not taking victory in this other than I get you to post more than you would otherwise... But if you remembered me from 2013-14 you should have remembered that. Every letter you type is a small victory in a weird sense.

I guess I might as well have asked "Why do you hate carebears?"

So... Why do you?

Can you give a reason why carebears affect you negativly? What is wrong with being labeled a carebear after all.

What is wrong with the mentality that appears to define them?

I do not feel as I am a carebear, but I support them as I would any other gamer culture.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#70 - 2015-12-20 04:37:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

My very favorite saying from this forum is in my bio:
Lfod Shi wrote:
.....This(!) is why I rat. The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.




I like it!

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2015-12-20 04:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Oh I'm am not taking victory in this other than I get you to post more than you would otherwise.
So basically, you are a troll, because that's what that attitude is generally called.

That also explains your desperation for a victory — I'm well aware that a claim of “beating” me at The Forums ranks very very highly in the EVE forum warrior book…

Quote:
I guess I might as well have asked "Why do you hate carebears?"
…and you would have gotten the same answer.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-12-20 04:43:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Oh I'm am not taking victory in this other than I get you to post more than you would otherwise.
So basically, you are a troll, because that's what that attitude is generally called.

That also explains your desperation for a victory — I'm well aware that a claim of “beating” me at The Forums ranks very very highly in the EVE forum warrior book…

Quote:
I guess I might as well have asked "Why do you hate carebears?"
…and you would have gotten the same answer.


So you don't hate carebears?

I am not trolling. Otherwise I would have come out and said that carebears need a safe space in high sec away from the drity gankers. Which I am not saying.

I am probaly agreeing with you, but you are so conflicted with me you can't do that.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2015-12-20 04:48:09 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
So you don't hate carebears?
The answer remains the same even if you do a rhetorical inversion.

Quote:
I am not trolling.
You just demonstrated you are. Your attitude shines through your own stated actions.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#74 - 2015-12-20 04:54:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
I'm well aware that a claim of “beating” me at The Forums ranks very very highly in the EVE forum warrior book…




pew pew.

First shot. First Shot.

What did I win?

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#75 - 2015-12-20 04:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Iria Ahrens wrote:
pew pew.

First shot. First Shot.

What did I win?

A Han Solo Order of Merit memorial plaque.

On a slightly related note, I found this old gem: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=214799
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#76 - 2015-12-20 05:02:26 UTC
Sweet! I'll keep it forever, with my Fedo.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-12-20 05:48:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
So you don't hate carebears?
The answer remains the same even if you do a rhetorical inversion.

Quote:
I am not trolling.
You just demonstrated you are. Your attitude shines through your own stated actions.


If you say so.

Personally, I would like to know if you hate carebears or not. This is not a demononstratable (did I spell that right) proof that one of us is wrong or right, but I would like to know your opnion on carebears since it was sort of the topic. Let us not throw out, "IT'S A FALSE DICHTOMY!", but let us try to get aroudn that and say one way or another.

If we can define a carebear, is it a bad thing or not? I mean... Regardless of if we can define it, does that matter if we can?

I'll start. I am not a carebear, but I do not mind that they exist.

How about you?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2015-12-20 06:02:09 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Personally, I would like to know if you hate carebears or not.
…and the answer remains the same.
Live with it.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2015-12-20 06:17:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Personally, I would like to know if you hate carebears or not.
…and the answer remains the same.
Live with it.


Oh well.

I suppose we can say you are indecisive and refuse to take a side in the carebear versus hardcore aspect of EVE.

So I take your indecisiveness as as support of the carebear lifestyle. As you refuse to condemn them, you must accept their right to exist and their playstyle is a valid one.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Top Guac
Doomheim
#80 - 2015-12-20 06:32:06 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
... you must accept their right to exist and their playstyle is a valid one.

As a vibrant ecosystem, New Eden needs its Krill, just as much as it needs it's top predators.

Carebears fill the Krill role well, all except for the noise they make.