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Make Turret Hardpoint Graphics for Neut, Draclira, and Smartbombs?

Author
Terra Volta
Hysera Innovations
#1 - 2015-12-18 00:52:08 UTC
I'm not sure if this thread has already been created.

But wouldn't it be better if Neuts, Dracliras, and Smartbombs actually show on the Turret Hardpoint of the ship, rather than just an empty space on the turret hardpoint?
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#2 - 2015-12-18 02:30:50 UTC
Part of me says yes for OCD reasons. The other part of me says no for free ship/fit intel.
Alexis Nightwish
#3 - 2015-12-18 02:42:07 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Part of me says yes for OCD reasons. The other part of me says no for free ship/fit intel.

Then we should remove the turret and launcher models?

And it's not free. Getting a scout there, or putting yourself in the line of fire to see what he's got isn't free. I'd like every high slot item to have a visible model on the ship.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

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Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#4 - 2015-12-18 03:13:53 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Part of me says yes for OCD reasons. The other part of me says no for free ship/fit intel.

Then we should remove the turret and launcher models?

And it's not free. Getting a scout there, or putting yourself in the line of fire to see what he's got isn't free. I'd like every high slot item to have a visible model on the ship.


I would like to go a step further and have every module have some type of graphic or effect. Even if it's small, it will take time for people to figure out what your fit is on a battleship with the number of mods to look at. Or they could uncloak and just ship scan you and do it faster.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#5 - 2015-12-18 03:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Part of me says yes for OCD reasons. The other part of me says no for free ship/fit intel.

Then we should remove the turret and launcher models?

And it's not free. Getting a scout there, or putting yourself in the line of fire to see what he's got isn't free. I'd like every high slot item to have a visible model on the ship.


warp at 100km, move forward 1m, click "look at". Not really putting yourself in the line of fire, unless its an alpha nado.

Some fits rely specifically on the element of surprise, and seeing a prophecy/myrm/magus/tristan/domi etc with all neut high's, RR, etc or a maller with 5 smartbombs will give away free intel and may make some avoid fights. Yes, you could speculate that with a 0 turret maller now, but some are fit without guns and are just major tanks.

This also means cyno's will be visible, which again completely removes that as a surprise element. Say what you will about hot droppers/BLOPs/bait etc, but its a valid game play mechanic and they rely almost completely on the element of surprise. No one (smart) would ever fall for the cyno procurer sitting in a belt, trying to bait an enemy gang that frequents their space. Or chasing your hurricane in a moa, just so you'll engage and get dropped by 5 BLOPs.

Maybe a compromise? What about a standard utility model when the slot is filled, but you don't know by what. Or maybe it becomes visible only when in use (bay door opens, utility mod raise up and is then visible). Similar to how torpedo/cruise launchers look.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#6 - 2015-12-18 08:24:39 UTC
I've been saying this for years now

Every targeted highslot module should have a visible model on the ship.

Imagine how awesome logi would look. and the art devs have an awesome opportunity integrating large "turret" hardpoints onto the new capital logi ships.

Even things like probe launchers and cloaks can have a model. The probes can fire 4 at a time from the 2 tubes, and the cloaks can project the 2km diameter bubble around the ship as it gets cloaked. Auto targeters could have a little scanning radar dish looking thing. LIkewise for the drone control mods and link augs.

And you could have warp disruption field generators have an animation where they transform to suit the use of a script or removal of one. SO MANY POSSIBILITIES.

The Drake is a Lie

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-12-18 09:08:57 UTC
Accessible intel isn't free intel. Every high slot item type should have a unique model displayed outside the ship, including inactive modules such as the drone control range boost module.

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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2015-12-18 10:13:47 UTC
On the free Intel note;

This isnt something you look up online. You have to physically be in the right system, on grid with your targets and look at each individual ship one at time. Then you have to have some knowledge of what is what to get an accurate idea of the fit.

It takes time, effort, risk and pilot skill.

Hopefully all modules will have some physical presence On a ship model.

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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-12-18 11:52:42 UTC
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#10 - 2015-12-18 12:37:52 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
They are nosferatus, OP ;)


Oh and those could use a tad more love. Okay Blood Raider ships have them as I knew them but neuts are too powerful as is. So when I put a vampire to work it should behave like one.

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Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#11 - 2015-12-18 14:47:30 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
On the free Intel note;

This isnt something you look up online. You have to physically be in the right system, on grid with your targets and look at each individual ship one at time. Then you have to have some knowledge of what is what to get an accurate idea of the fit.

It takes time, effort, risk and pilot skill.

Hopefully all modules will have some physical presence On a ship model.


You generally dont have a fleet/group of bait ships. You have one. Lets say you had a drake or raven setup for baiting with a cyno and were ratting in a belt. Maybe a cloaky camper is in the belt watching. Sees you have a cyno and never engages. Now the bait is never taken and we are now losing content/tactics just so we can see utility highs. As opposed to current mechanics where its unknown short of a ship scan.

Once you see the new cyno module, then you will know what it is. Its not hard to type in cyno into market search and then show image to see how it looks. Not to mention after a few days people will know what most of the modules look like. This doest include those testing on SiSi before the release.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#12 - 2015-12-18 16:24:05 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
On the free Intel note;

This isnt something you look up online. You have to physically be in the right system, on grid with your targets and look at each individual ship one at time. Then you have to have some knowledge of what is what to get an accurate idea of the fit.

It takes time, effort, risk and pilot skill.

Hopefully all modules will have some physical presence On a ship model.


You generally dont have a fleet/group of bait ships. You have one. Lets say you had a drake or raven setup for baiting with a cyno and were ratting in a belt. Maybe a cloaky camper is in the belt watching. Sees you have a cyno and never engages. Now the bait is never taken and we are now losing content/tactics just so we can see utility highs. As opposed to current mechanics where its unknown short of a ship scan.

Once you see the new cyno module, then you will know what it is. Its not hard to type in cyno into market search and then show image to see how it looks. Not to mention after a few days people will know what most of the modules look like. This doest include those testing on SiSi before the release.


I see your point, but frankly, do not think it is that valid. When it comes to actually "free intelligence," I can see a pilot reported in the intelligence channel, look up his kill board, and tell you to 80% certainty what he is flying and how he is fit. That is free intelligence. I can then ask in my scout channel, "does X alliance have a dozen dudes sitting on a Titan?" That is my alliance putting effort into intelligence collection.

Also, actually looking at a ship and recognizing the modules is a developed skill. The last time you came into our space, we had a cloak scout on a gate report you. I asked our scout, "Is Stitch artillery or auto cannon fit?" He could not tell. I found out when your first volley hit my Confessor.

Most people will not have the time to look at your ship to see these things at the pace of Eve combat. Those who take the time should be rewarded.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-12-18 16:31:17 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
On the free Intel note;

This isnt something you look up online. You have to physically be in the right system, on grid with your targets and look at each individual ship one at time. Then you have to have some knowledge of what is what to get an accurate idea of the fit.

It takes time, effort, risk and pilot skill.

Hopefully all modules will have some physical presence On a ship model.


You generally dont have a fleet/group of bait ships. You have one. Lets say you had a drake or raven setup for baiting with a cyno and were ratting in a belt. Maybe a cloaky camper is in the belt watching. Sees you have a cyno and never engages. Now the bait is never taken and we are now losing content/tactics just so we can see utility highs. As opposed to current mechanics where its unknown short of a ship scan.

Once you see the new cyno module, then you will know what it is. Its not hard to type in cyno into market search and then show image to see how it looks. Not to mention after a few days people will know what most of the modules look like. This doest include those testing on SiSi before the release.


So hotdrops should be risk free? That is after all, the other side of the coin.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2015-12-18 17:00:56 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
They are nosferatus, OP ;)


That's the first thing I though when reading the title.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#15 - 2015-12-18 17:15:47 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
On the free Intel note;

This isnt something you look up online. You have to physically be in the right system, on grid with your targets and look at each individual ship one at time. Then you have to have some knowledge of what is what to get an accurate idea of the fit.

It takes time, effort, risk and pilot skill.

Hopefully all modules will have some physical presence On a ship model.


You generally dont have a fleet/group of bait ships. You have one. Lets say you had a drake or raven setup for baiting with a cyno and were ratting in a belt. Maybe a cloaky camper is in the belt watching. Sees you have a cyno and never engages. Now the bait is never taken and we are now losing content/tactics just so we can see utility highs. As opposed to current mechanics where its unknown short of a ship scan.

Once you see the new cyno module, then you will know what it is. Its not hard to type in cyno into market search and then show image to see how it looks. Not to mention after a few days people will know what most of the modules look like. This doest include those testing on SiSi before the release.


So hotdrops should be risk free? That is after all, the other side of the coin.


Hotdrops are never risk free. You have apparently never seen when a hotdrop goes wrong with a counter drop. Just like in the scenario i just described.

Example:

Lets say you have a cloaky camper in your ratting system who likes to drop your ratters with BLOPs or a super. You make a BAIT raven or whatever to your liking. You sit that bait ship in a belt/anom and wait. Cloaky camper is in there watching you. Uses "look at" and sees a cyno module. Do you really think hes going to fall for it then? Why would a ratter have a cyno on their rave for any other reason than to counterdrop/bait?

Cloaky camper ignores the bait and continues along camping. Content/tactics lost, all because we wanted to see a thingy in our utility slot.

This is not an unusual scenario either, and i know when i lived in null we setup counter drops fairly frequently to bait the campers/regulars.

This would remove that scenario and only catch the idiots. Which is not how something is balanced.
Alexis Nightwish
#16 - 2015-12-18 17:39:34 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Why would a ratter have a cyno on their rave for any other reason than to counterdrop/bait?

As a deterrent to being dropped himself.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers

Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#17 - 2015-12-18 17:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hopelesshobo
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Why would a ratter have a cyno on their rave for any other reason than to counterdrop/bait?

As a deterrent to being dropped himself.


Counter Intel at it's finest.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2015-12-18 23:46:37 UTC
Sounds very lowtech to have it shown on ships... I find it cooler as it is right now, because it looks like the effect comes from the entire ship as a whole.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#19 - 2015-12-18 23:57:08 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Why would a ratter have a cyno on their rave for any other reason than to counterdrop/bait?


As a deterrent to being dropped himself.


Public service announcement: if you ever see one of my ships in space, especially my PVE Ships, please be aware that I always have a cyno fitted. Consider yourself warned.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#20 - 2015-12-19 01:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
Personally, whether any of us like or dislike the idea, I have a feeling it'll sooner or later be a reality. It gets asked far too often for CCP to have never heard of it or consider devoting some dev time to test it out and see if it can be done. If it doesn't happen, that will likely be for technical issues or unforeseen coding road blocks. In fact, I think the only reason it hasn't been worked on is CCP may be waiting for interest in it to spike a bit more.

As for fears of easy intel, no one said such modules can't have completely indistinguishable and identical looking "hardpoints", even if the graphics for them working remain different. Maybe all offensive non-gun or launcher modules have the same looking weapons station, for instance, so that knowing whether someone's packing neuts or smarties until they fire is still unclear. Maybe some of them even remain hidden under the hull and only surface like a "popup turret" when activated. That wouldn't be as visually pleasing, but it would be a compromise between adding better aesthetics and maintaining balance.

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"----in' A, right?"

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