EVE General Discussion

my frustration with eve has been with the mechanics, not the gameplay. But, i didnt understand what was going on, because my eyes were deceieving me.

when i logged onto eve, i was piloting a frig around something, and blapping it sideways. i thought it looked odd, but the game didnt have rotating turrets, at least for that craft, so it just did that.

i was under the impression i had a 3 dimensional ship that has an positive and negative x,y, and z face. turrets would be mounted on those faces, and shoot according to the graphics.

what i didnt realize,. is looking at my ship is more like looking at the drive wheel of a car, while it in the air, and you provide varying resistance to it. what the wheel is doing has relation to the engine, but it is not an accurate representation of the current state of your "ship". Mathematically, my ship was a 1 dimensional point in space, who doesnt have a face but instead has a direction, determined by its last location. i wont realize this for a very long time, even though i constantly see examples of it. these examples both humor and enrage me, and i feel are ultimately why people quit eve.

so, leap forward 2 months in my battleship, i have some funny memories. I have seen my ship warp sideways, reliably. i have seen my turrets face fwd but fire backward, reliably. but im mad as hell because i cant dps a thing for the life of me. but, my friends can i make my turrets face one direction, then pick a target on the other side, fire, and hit it, with my turrets physically being the opposite side? why can i never hit anything when i am broadside, orbiting unless im way far out, and even then im way better head on then broadside? this is making no sense, im getting so angry at everything, i take to the forums. i tried to articulate myself, but i dont even understand eve yet...

some dude is "harassing " me. this is part of eve, i can just activate a new char, and be done with it. pause skill training on him, activate it on an alt fresh or old, and hes gone.... you cant get attached to anything, ships or characters alike. this is STRICTLY in conflict with literally every other game out there, where you are encouraged to be invested in things. it wasnt until i actually read all the tos word for word with a pen and piece of paper, that i realized what eve is, and what type of game i was playing... my lack of knowledge on these topics led my posts to be locked for trolling, when it was a lack of understanding as to the world of eve. now i understand... i understand why my posts were locked for trolling, people got mad, eve should never change save some few role playing conflicts to improve the experience, but most importantly...

The reason i can not dps is because i am using hitscan weapons without knowledge, but assumptions.

Some players dont have this problem, and those players are using sprite weapons. I am in an abaddon. 8 turrets, dps increase, resis increase. i am sitting there, getting pounded by enemy frigates, and eventually cruisers. this is the worst thing to do, i am now relying on 4 lvl 2 drones to kill things, and it takes for ever. im watching tv, "playing" eve. its not very fun. but i already cancelled my sub, so im getting my $ worth and playing until i get so mad i just delete it, or until my sub expires, and i delete it.

but i made a group of friends, who we now play other games together. so, when we play eve, i want to contribute. i start to research my dps, and which turrets i should be using. this, is a grave mistake. turret tracking speed is virtually useless. any bonuses are bonuses, but you gain far more by adding ship agi, then turret tracking speed. at least on hitscan weapons. this is because sprite weapons will never miss, always hit, given the time.

i wont go into the complexity of two one dimensional points engaging each other in space, i made that rant to a friend. but while i was researching dps types and equations, broke out my calculator, starting crunching math the good old fashioned pen and paper way, i wanted to find out what approach did. also, what orbit did, because sometimes my orbit was elliptical, other times it was spherical.

i came across orbiting vs keep at range, on a frig dcussion forum. someone made the comment that "all of this is wrong. the ships in eve do not exist, but are instead points with angular velocity". i immediately recognized the term, and everything made sense all at once. the sideways warping ship, the wonky turrets accuracy and firing, and why when i would align to an object, it didnt matter if my nose dipped or not, i would be aligned or not regardless of the orientation of then nose of my ship. even elliptical orbits...

i quickly looked up turrets, they do have a "range". ok, then what direction are the facing? its all 1 dimensional points. they have the same angular velocity as my ship, not the last direction they fired. if i am going to hit my opponent with hitscan weapons, they need to be directly in front of me. i wouldnt do that because i thought my turrets would block los on each other. neither ship is turning, we are making a circle with many points. opposite of flatland, where the higher in status you were, the more points you had on your "circle", in eve, the less points you can make a circle in, the better you are at avoiding being hit, and being able to hit your target.

the "tracking speed" of the turrets isnt a speed at all, but a conal increase on the degrees to which i may hit my target, other then 0. and since neither ship is moving in a circle, but we are all making flatland sims, its far better to dcrecrease the amount of points you can make a sim circle in, then to increase the angles of the turrets. especially because turrets have a cap, and suffer from diminishing returns.

not even close

Some of your assumptions are incorrect. You assume because your ship has structure that the game design has to reflect this.. This is never the case in any game ever made. All games are relative balances of performance and structure.

In eve the ship does not need structure so it exists as a point. If it existed as anything more complex you would have a whole host of extra calculations that simply would do visually what you see now for exactly zero gameplay or gfx advantages.

Additionally when considering things like turret sig radiuses and the difference between these to large and small guns.. well this has a reflective role on reality that has been translated logically to a game state. To explain.. A large 16/50 gun on a battleship is designed to hit other large objects. CAN it hit small objects? Yes.. but its designed for target is large and thus it can track them quickly in any situation often regardless of how the ship itself is maneuvering(wet navy anyway). In many cases the ship itself is used to help turn these guns faster to target to gain a combat edge over the target ship.
Now look at the flipside.. a CIWS. These weapons are designed for knife fights against small things with large potential to harm to ship. They track incredibly fast and accurately. The roll of the ship literally has zero functional effect on them once they lock you up. Shockingly enough though they sometimes have this funky glitch when targeting big things... because their designed focus is so small if you told one to target a battleship 1.5km away it might misfire due to problems recognizing the target profile.

This is pretty much reflected in eve.. big guns cant roll fast enough.. and even if they can their designed engagement parameters dont match a small hull and thus have unexpected performance problems. If they DO hit however.. well.. a 20 foot yacht hit by a 16/50 is only so much deconstructed matter..

TLDR:
Your math sucks. We've done this math before. Sig rads make sense. Your ship being a point instead of a volume filled model is just common sense game design. Realism is bad in games.

Ive seen longer.

No no no, that's not what I meant!
Your posts are long too! I wasn't trying to say that yours aren't the biggest, I mean, theyre just right for the threads!
Come on baby, don't be like that... you know I love your posts!

Oh I get it, you are going for a last minute effort to dethrone CAM as the queen shiptoasting. This is not how you get it done.

I propose that CCP institute a new rule that requires all complaints, grievance, or other such posts to be written strictly in one haiku...

They may be boring, but they are short! Also, for the singing part, do we then require people to post links to YouTube videos of them singing out their grievances? If so, then I fully support either proposal.

What do you think CCP?

Took me a while, but I finally figured it out lol.

Still open.
Needs more reports.