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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Author
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4601 - 2015-12-16 05:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Herp Derp, pretend you aren't being hunted and it will all work out fine. (for him)


Good thing I didn't say that.

Quote:
Or respond to the hostile presence and lose less.

Either way it's still losing.


Or fleet up with a buddy or 5 and keep on earning. Or move next door. No that is NOT abandoning the space, just as when an alliance that goes on deployment does not abandon its space.

Using the intel local provides you, go look up when this guy tends to actively hunt and rat in his "off hours".

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4602 - 2015-12-16 05:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:


I've long ago said I don't care what happens to intel. They aren't going to take local away and call it a day. They will replace it with something equivalent. Maybe it will be attached to structures, vulnerable to entosis, or whatever... but it will work reliably enough to be useful.

It's fine if they do something with it... but it's not going to balance or unbalance cloaks. Making cloaks huntable will balance them, so long as that change is itself balanced.


Haven't I been saying this for the past 150 pages.

Get rid of local. Move intel into a POS and make it vulnerable to attack. Make cloaks vulnerable to scan in some way.

No more AFK cloaking. No more local as intel being invulnerable. Of course, for people who just want to bear it up in NS, I’ll be there to entosis that damn structure. I’d really love it if there would be a way to hack it so the PvE pilots don’t know it has gone down on a successful hack. Unsuccessful hack every alarm goes off. Heck, even if it disabled my ship for a period of time I’d be fine. Just so long as I have a chance to sneak up on that PvE pilot and in the spirit of the game, “Ruin his game.”


Local needs a total rework, not a simple "Move to pos to fix it." Local is nothing more but a infallible asset, that can't be lied to, disrupted and intercepted due to combine mechanics, such as private channels. I wish people would focus less on trying to band-aid the situation and look more for a actual solution to the problem we have now. Which is a pile of mechanics attempting to band-aid the problem local creates. Hot-dropping to attempt to by pass local. Or cloaking to attempt to make local lie. Both mechanics are in my honest opinions, band-aids, and should never had been the permanent solutions to the problem we call free intel.


It's not as infallible as you make it out. It only becomes as useful as the locals can make it. Why does it not get used to make people "invulnerable" in high sec? Because you have to clear it of hostiles.

While farfetched and much more effort, you could flood a given system with alts in max speed interceptors and achieve much the same effect. It would take forever to hunt and catch them, if you even could catch one burning. Someone really fast at scanning, and maybe some linked tackle bonused ships could manage. Most likely a group effort....which would be appropriate.

People like to conflate this into a problem with Intel, and it's not. Intel is it's own thing, with many balance considerations beyond the impact of cloaks. It is needed to help drive conflict. It does not have to stay in the form of local, but something similar will always be needed.



It is infallible, saying otherwise, and you are basically lieing to yourself "UP NAMES JUMPED HE NOT BLUE! TIME TO SCRAMBLE TO A SAFE SPOT" Oh here another good one I see in "Intel channels" ... "There was a red and orange spike passing through XXX-YYY system, be aligned and ready to dock up!" There is literally no active intel gathering here, it just waiting for names to pop up on a list /for you/.

Flooding a system with alts.... Wow talk about taking a rather impossible practice and trying to throw said impossible wrench into the mix. Really, if they are going to dock up due to 1 neut, what makes you think they are going to come out when there are hundreds or thousands of nuets in the system? Do you even read your **** before you post? I am honestly tired of people having the truth stare them in the freaken face, and out right not accepting it. There is 200 + pages of majority of people all either trying to redirect the problem away, or to local.

"IT NOT LOCAL PROBLEM IT CLOAK PROBLEM"

"NU-UH IT LOCAL PROBLEM NOT CLOAKING PROBLEM" You all are like children. I swear, and I don't give to Silly-dunkies how many people I make mad, but it time to wake the hell up. This thread, and cloaking, local, real intel tools. IT WILL NEVER GO ANYWHERE, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE. You know why it will never go anywhere, because you all bicker like old men at a bingo game on who called bingo first!

IT TIME TO WAKE UP AND SMELL REALITY MIKE VOIDSTAR, Like or not, cloaking, local, jump bridging. They are all tied together by one system or another. Like it or not, this is reality, an no number of word games, and mind hops you throw, will change this fact. Those goes out to more then just Mike. It goes out to this whole damn thread. This thread is pointless, and moot, it was placed here so you all can argue without clogging up the whole damn forums with a new thread a week.

If you all really want to see change, then you all need to do something that we call in reality: Working together.

This isn't a rant, this is a wake up call for this entire thread.


Dear lord, what a load of hypocritical self-righteous horseshit. You're not substantively different than what you are bitching about, though you are only half as coherent.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4603 - 2015-12-16 06:00:17 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:


While farfetched and much more effort, you could flood a given system with alts in max speed interceptors and achieve much the same effect. It would take forever to hunt and catch them, if you even could catch one burning. Someone really fast at scanning, and maybe some linked tackle bonused ships could manage. Most likely a group effort....which would be appropriate.


You poo-poo moving over a system, ratting in a fleet, and researching the camper and then post this kind of excrement and expect anyone to take it even remotely seriously. To take you even remotely seriously?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4604 - 2015-12-16 06:09:39 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:


Dear lord, what a load of hypocritical self-righteous horseshit. You're not substantively different than what you are bitching about, though you are only half as coherent.


Oh, My feels, self-righteous horseshit.

Well here a few self-righteous facts for you. AFK cloaking threads have been around ever since the first person jimmies got rustle by a cloaker who thought. "I'm tired of hunting for targets, Instead I'm going to sit here till this guy comes out." And then when said guy did come out, guess what. He got destroyed. almost six years later. We now have a dedicated thread, that is stickied to keep people from constantly creating new threads. And Boy, the number of threads. Some of them had some creative solutions in pushing their own gameplay and in turn shaving down other people's game play.

Six years, and 231 pages later in some random thread they created to help calm the AFK thread spamming, and we still have no solution in sight.

Instead we have people who argue over who right. Every once in a while you have some random self-righteous *******, that suggest, maybe both sides are perhaps wrong in this, and you know what the general response is? It either ignored, or shot down, cause clearly they can't be wrong. They been fighting their opinion for six something years. WHO DARES CHALLENGE ME.

I'm here to tell you, both sides are wrong, and if you truely want to help fix this, it time you all start looking at the source of the problem. Remove the layer of band aid patches and maybe the truth can be dug out.

Here a hint for you, maybe instead of just looking at AFK cloakers, you should look at how information is handled in eve. Not just local. Perhaps also how information from local is transmitted, and in turn used by the players. Solo, groups, or large alliance, dare I say that this might also help show why alliances are able to hold onto so much space that they rarely ever use, How does this help supplement blob warfare's power?

Dare I suggest that chat as a whole should be attack-able?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4605 - 2015-12-16 06:14:53 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Six years, and 231 pages later in some random thread they created to help calm the AFK thread spamming, and we still have no solution in sight.


Except it looks like CCP will be making changes as per the Fozzie quote, the Observatory Array, and statements made at FanFest.

Yeah, other than that it looks like nothing will be changing soon. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4606 - 2015-12-16 06:16:25 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Six years, and 231 pages later in some random thread they created to help calm the AFK thread spamming, and we still have no solution in sight.


Except it looks like CCP will be making changes as per the Fozzie quote, the Observatory Array, and statements made at FanFest.

Yeah, other than that it looks like nothing will be changing soon. Roll


I reserve the right to with hold opinion on promised features, that have yet to come out yet. like that new mining update that feature the ability to mine planet rings. and WiS.

Oh wait.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4607 - 2015-12-16 06:16:52 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Dare I suggest that chat as a whole should be attack-able?


They are. I leave it as a homework assignment for you to figure out how. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4608 - 2015-12-16 06:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Dare I suggest that chat as a whole should be attack-able?


They are. I leave it as a homework assignment for you to figure out how. Roll



Having to make new accounts and alts, so you can make spies, is hardly considered good gameplay design. Roll

OH OH OH I Know, Paying people to give you the password to the channel...oh wait.. those are called spies.

OOH OH OH! Maybe hacking their computer to recover their password...oh wait.. that illegal.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4609 - 2015-12-16 06:19:44 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Maria Dragoon wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:


Dear lord, what a load of hypocritical self-righteous horseshit. You're not substantively different than what you are bitching about, though you are only half as coherent.


Oh, My feels, self-righteous horseshit.

Well here a few self-righteous facts for you. AFK cloaking threads have been around ever since the first person jimmies got rustle by a cloaker who thought.



Your complete inability to string a few words into a cohesive thought aside, you know what makes you the most useless person around?

Regardless of the validity of their respective arguments, everyone else here at least actually -has- a position on the issue, whereas you're just some useless tit jerking yourself off about how you're seemingly above it all.

Well done self-fellating yourself about something I pointed out a dozen pages back, Captain Obvious.

Truly, we'd be lost without your... well, they're not exactly contributions, now, are they?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4610 - 2015-12-16 06:23:37 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Dare I suggest that chat as a whole should be attack-able?


They are. I leave it as a homework assignment for you to figure out how. Roll



Having to make new accounts and alts, so you can make spies, is hardly considered good gameplay design. Roll

OH OH OH I Know, Paying people to give you the password to the channel...oh wait.. those are called spies.

OOH OH OH! Maybe hacking their computer to recover their password...oh wait.. that illegal.


You don't have to make a new account, Vile Rat did it on his main. Yes, spying. The Mittani got the ultimate reward by turning someone with director level access in the holding corp.... You don't need alts, RL bribes, or hacking.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4611 - 2015-12-16 06:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:


Dear lord, what a load of hypocritical self-righteous horseshit. You're not substantively different than what you are bitching about, though you are only half as coherent.


Oh, My feels, self-righteous horseshit.

Well here a few self-righteous facts for you. AFK cloaking threads have been around ever since the first person jimmies got rustle by a cloaker who thought.



Your complete inability to string a few words into a cohesive thought aside, you know what makes you the most useless person around?

Regardless of the validity of their respective arguments, everyone else here at least actually -has- a position the issue, whereas you're just some useless tit jerking yourself off about how you're seemingly above it all.


Oh you want my opinion if I had to take a side, okay, delete local, problem solved both sides lose their magic power. Hunters don't know you are there, and prey don't know the hunters are there. Right? That an answer you wanted, a side. A position, on war that. *Checks the clock* Still hasn't changed in, oh that right 6 years?(Ignoring promised features, as like I said before. Certain things I'm a bit iffy on until they actually come out) Hmmm. I offer a new perspective a new point. I actually posted this point under a different name. Tell you what happen. It was lost on page - let me see... Bottom of page 221(I'll let you guess by the hair color which one I am.), after I made that post, I was... pretty much ignored. I was actually pretty gentle about posting my idea as well. Gentleness doesn't seem to have an effect. However! Look what kind of attention I caught this time! Maybe slightly negetive, however I caught your attention did I not?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4612 - 2015-12-16 06:26:11 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
However! Look what kind of attention I caught this time! Maybe slightly negetive, however I caught your attention did I not?



Oh, so you're an attention whore, is what you're saying?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4613 - 2015-12-16 06:27:36 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Dare I suggest that chat as a whole should be attack-able?


They are. I leave it as a homework assignment for you to figure out how. Roll



Having to make new accounts and alts, so you can make spies, is hardly considered good gameplay design. Roll

OH OH OH I Know, Paying people to give you the password to the channel...oh wait.. those are called spies.

OOH OH OH! Maybe hacking their computer to recover their password...oh wait.. that illegal.


You don't have to make a new account, Vile Rat did it on his main. Yes, spying. The Mittani got the ultimate reward by turning someone with director level access in the holding corp.... You don't need alts, RL bribes, or hacking.



You bring up a rather limited set of people, under an even more limited set of conditions.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4614 - 2015-12-16 06:31:18 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:


Dear lord, what a load of hypocritical self-righteous horseshit. You're not substantively different than what you are bitching about, though you are only half as coherent.


Oh, My feels, self-righteous horseshit.

Well here a few self-righteous facts for you. AFK cloaking threads have been around ever since the first person jimmies got rustle by a cloaker who thought.



Your complete inability to string a few words into a cohesive thought aside, you know what makes you the most useless person around?

Regardless of the validity of their respective arguments, everyone else here at least actually -has- a position the issue, whereas you're just some useless tit jerking yourself off about how you're seemingly above it all.


Oh you want my opinion if I had to take a side, okay, delete local, problem solved both sides lose their magic power. Hunters don't know you are there, and prey don't know the hunters are there. Right? That an answer you wanted, a side. A position, on war that. *Checks the clock* Still hasn't changed in, oh that right 6 years?(Ignoring promised features, as like I said before. Certain things I'm a bit iffy on until they actually come out) Hmmm. I offer a new perspective a new point. I actually posted this point under a different name. Tell you what happen. It was lost on page - let me see... Bottom of page 221(I'll let you guess by the hair color which one I am.), after I made that post, I was... pretty much ignored. I was actually pretty gentle about posting my idea as well. Gentleness doesn't seem to have an effect. However! Look what kind of attention I caught this time! Maybe slightly negetive, however I caught your attention did I not?


I think you mean this one.

So you were ignored...so your solution is to throw a tantrum?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4615 - 2015-12-16 06:35:49 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


I think you mean this one.

So you were ignored...so your solution is to throw a tantrum?



I think it was this one, actually, though it's not hard to see why neither post engendered any particular response.


"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4616 - 2015-12-16 06:37:07 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Dare I suggest that chat as a whole should be attack-able?


They are. I leave it as a homework assignment for you to figure out how. Roll



Having to make new accounts and alts, so you can make spies, is hardly considered good gameplay design. Roll

OH OH OH I Know, Paying people to give you the password to the channel...oh wait.. those are called spies.

OOH OH OH! Maybe hacking their computer to recover their password...oh wait.. that illegal.


You don't have to make a new account, Vile Rat did it on his main. Yes, spying. The Mittani got the ultimate reward by turning someone with director level access in the holding corp.... You don't need alts, RL bribes, or hacking.



You bring up a rather limited set of people, under an even more limited set of conditions.


I brought up some well known examples.

I knew of a spy in our corp, back when we were in IT Alliance and TEST were invading. He was passing along intel to them, and he later joined them. The idea of turning a player on the other side as a double agent is a well known and established tactic.

Hell, I've even done something when I had access to 2 coalition intel networks, and no...no alts.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4617 - 2015-12-16 06:38:06 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


I think you mean this one.

So you were ignored...so your solution is to throw a tantrum?



I think it was this one, actually, though it's not hard to see why neither post engendered any particular response.




Yeah, missed that one. The posting styles are the same.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4618 - 2015-12-16 06:40:24 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:

Six years, and 231 pages later in some random thread they created to help calm the AFK thread spamming, and we still have no solution in sight.


Of course not. Solutions are for things that are actually problems.

Just because a bunch of bears cry and whine, does not mean anything is broken. In fact, it typically means that something is balanced, since the only thing carebears hate more than non consensual PvP existing is game balance.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4619 - 2015-12-16 06:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
However! Look what kind of attention I caught this time! Maybe slightly negetive, however I caught your attention did I not?



Oh, so you're an attention whore, is what you're saying?


Fantastic, you are starting to catch on! Lets continue now, why don't we.

A: We have a simple problem. Someone jimmies were rustled because, waa-afk cloaker in my system he could kill me. Of course, makes the claim that person is invincible because he not target-able.

B: We investigate the capabilities, and drawbacks of a cloak. Just cloak, not any ships. As we want to do this all science like, I mean. Science, in a science fiction game, sounds legit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

C: in a isolated system we have discovered that cloak makes you immune to targeting, which in turn means direct firing weapons will be unable to apply damage to you. Or in any way able to interact with you, because you now isolated yourself from all outside sources.

D: In a isolated system, we discovered that cloaking is in fact, not invincible as non-targetting weapon systems, will in fact do some major damage to anything that is smaller then the original target of the non-targetting weapon systems, Of course bomb related weapon systems being the king of this example

E: In a isolated system we have discovered while the cloaking does offer invisibility, and the ability to avoid target based weapon and modules, in turn you can are still visible in the system. By some system that I can only describe as space magic, this system reports that I am in fact still in this system despite being told that I was in no way scannable, target-able, and unless being forced out of cloak by approaching objects or high speed waves of pure hate generated by what I could only describe as battleships, or even cruisers. There was no way an outside source could intercept me.

F: In a non-isolated test, I discovered that one of two responses were generated by the locals of these sectors of space described by other pilots as null sec. A bunch of hate wave generating ships show up, that start to populate all the popular sectors of non-hate generating ships. Or, all local activity suddenly, and mysteriously vanish. Which in turn had me the most concern about! I mean, a single ship, that was by all large and small considered a very fast transport that had the ability to cut it sensors off and make it untargetable was able to scare away all of it trade traffic. This is concerning indeed!

G: After some study, I started to discover a pattern, one, any areas of space I went to, where the owner of that space was not friendly to me, resulted in one of those responses! As my research dove deeper and deeper, I also discovered that this system was called local chat relay system. Basically a system of other pilots to communicate with one another, that also reported whenever anyone entered the system! I tore into my ship, looked through out the entire systems, subsystems and yet as my concern grew more and more. I notice a pattern, not only did my ship come with only the basic of all scanning devices, called a directional scanner, but I also found a relay in my pod that if removed would result in the termination of my clone! This resulted in regardless what I do, I could not get close and start trade traffic with any but the most brain dead pilots, and of course, you can't trade with a pilot who mind is simply not there!

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4620 - 2015-12-16 06:45:22 UTC
Your thought progression is painful to contemplate.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.