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[December] Remote Rep Tiericide and Falloff

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Zero Conscience
Neurotoxin Control
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#141 - 2015-12-08 11:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zero Conscience
Its all about destroying ship and taking stuff. DONT BUFF LOGI. srsly Sad more specically the t2 cruiser link up. Oni/Guard are OP all ready
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#142 - 2015-12-08 14:36:20 UTC
LordInvisible wrote:
I'm still not sure if CCP actually plays all the styles of gameplay that we have available.

They "fixed" blob RR problem (kind of..) but they introduced even more OP tactics for us, empire warriors.

Since we (as in solo station huggers) tend to fight 1vs1 alot, a neutral RR is now even easier to pull off. In 1vs1 fights there only needs to be a small RR available for game to turn around. And with shield RR now orbiting at 70km, where is impossible to catch it, heck, even ECM it, altough with less shield boost in falloff its still mandatory to have neutral RR alt parked somewhere close.

At least frigs are gonna be in heavy neut range, right?! RIGHT?!?!?

And dont tell me about best ship is friendship. I like to play alone, but with every patch there is more struggle for solo pvp. Its either blob or go back to lvl4.


Doesn't sound like you are playing solo if you are using alts for RR.
LordInvisible
Nova Ardour
#143 - 2015-12-08 20:21:02 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:


Doesn't sound like you are playing solo if you are using alts for RR.


where did I mention me using RR? I'm worried about my opponents using one, now even further out of my solo ship reach..
Lugh Crow-Slave
#144 - 2015-12-09 12:47:15 UTC
LordInvisible wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:


Doesn't sound like you are playing solo if you are using alts for RR.


where did I mention me using RR? I'm worried about my opponents using one, now even further out of my solo ship reach..


The lock range didn't go up fit a damp

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#145 - 2015-12-10 18:05:21 UTC
I feel like all the changes together are too much of a nerf. It's like CCP listed off all the qualities that could be nerfed on logi (cap use, range, repair amount, cap use, fitting, cycle time) and decided to nerf all of them, while keeping all the same counters, making one of the counters more effective (target switching does more now that cycle time's worse), and adding a new counter (command destroyers can teleport logi away now). Even though the meta 4 reppers became the new compact versions, my Guardians and Augorors no longer fit, and would still be less effective even if they were. I have to either give them frigate-sized tanks or leave an empty high slot to make them fit again. All for a ship's easily countered, requires almost perfect related skills in order to fly at all, and can't do anything on its own.

And people are still saying they need to stacking penalize, have signature radius reduce repairs, or have a dedicated anti-repair EWAR module?
Vailen Sere
State War Academy
Caldari State
#146 - 2015-12-10 18:59:01 UTC
And most of the support ships are way cap unstable now.

I wonder how many gangs died horribly since their logi forgot to check the ship fitting after patch before they undocked..
Vailen Sere
State War Academy
Caldari State
#147 - 2015-12-10 19:51:57 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
I feel like all the changes together are too much of a nerf. It's like CCP listed off all the qualities that could be nerfed on logi (cap use, range, repair amount, cap use, fitting, cycle time) and decided to nerf all of them, while keeping all the same counters, making one of the counters more effective (target switching does more now that cycle time's worse), and adding a new counter (command destroyers can teleport logi away now). Even though the meta 4 reppers became the new compact versions, my Guardians and Augorors no longer fit, and would still be less effective even if they were. I have to either give them frigate-sized tanks or leave an empty high slot to make them fit again. All for a ship's easily countered, requires almost perfect related skills in order to fly at all, and can't do anything on its own.

And people are still saying they need to stacking penalize, have signature radius reduce repairs, or have a dedicated anti-repair EWAR module?

Cap warfare is anti Logi/support. ECM works pretty well too.
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#148 - 2015-12-10 20:17:49 UTC
Vailen Sere wrote:
Cap warfare is anti Logi/support. ECM works pretty well too.
I know, that's what I mean. Sensor damps, ECM, cap warfare, target-switching, mass-MJDs, fleet maneuvering and raw DPS/alpha are all very possible counters for logi.

The design philosophy for this rework was "Now there's a way for players to show their skill," but I'd argue the opposite. It's a straight nerf, and just makes logi more susceptible to counters that already worked perfectly fine anyway. If anything, they should've made the fitting and cap use a little less tight so pilots can run them at all without needing to be perfect at them; that's how to let logi pilots show skill.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#149 - 2015-12-11 01:59:08 UTC
SO why did you nerf the t2 reps? t2 reps used to be always chosen because of faster cycle time. versus more grid for more reps

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Lugh Crow-Slave
#150 - 2015-12-12 14:18:18 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
I feel like all the changes together are too much of a nerf. It's like CCP listed off all the qualities that could be nerfed on logi (cap use, range, repair amount, cap use, fitting, cycle time) and decided to nerf all of them, while keeping all the same counters, making one of the counters more effective (target switching does more now that cycle time's worse), and adding a new counter (command destroyers can teleport logi away now). Even though the meta 4 reppers became the new compact versions, my Guardians and Augorors no longer fit, and would still be less effective even if they were. I have to either give them frigate-sized tanks or leave an empty high slot to make them fit again. All for a ship's easily countered, requires almost perfect related skills in order to fly at all, and can't do anything on its own.

And people are still saying they need to stacking penalize, have signature radius reduce repairs, or have a dedicated anti-repair EWAR module?



At least you fly armor shield has become a joke after this


Armor, better hp/s better cycle time longer effective range onto of it anyway having better buffer and resists to amplify the effect of logistics.

Shield, reps at start of cycle. .... woo any competent logi pilot can fly well enough that dealing with reps at the end of a cycle is not that big of a disadvantage

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#151 - 2015-12-12 15:48:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
I feel like all the changes together are too much of a nerf. It's like CCP listed off all the qualities that could be nerfed on logi (cap use, range, repair amount, cap use, fitting, cycle time) and decided to nerf all of them, while keeping all the same counters, making one of the counters more effective (target switching does more now that cycle time's worse), and adding a new counter (command destroyers can teleport logi away now). Even though the meta 4 reppers became the new compact versions, my Guardians and Augorors no longer fit, and would still be less effective even if they were. I have to either give them frigate-sized tanks or leave an empty high slot to make them fit again. All for a ship's easily countered, requires almost perfect related skills in order to fly at all, and can't do anything on its own.

And people are still saying they need to stacking penalize, have signature radius reduce repairs, or have a dedicated anti-repair EWAR module?



At least you fly armor shield has become a joke after this


Armor, better hp/s better cycle time longer effective range onto of it anyway having better buffer and resists to amplify the effect of logistics.

Shield, reps at start of cycle. .... woo any competent logi pilot can fly well enough that dealing with reps at the end of a cycle is not that big of a disadvantage



shield logi = has it easier to counter alpha
armor logi = has it easier to counter sustained dps

both however are viable ....
Lugh Crow-Slave
#152 - 2015-12-12 23:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
RcTamiya wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
I feel like all the changes together are too much of a nerf. It's like CCP listed off all the qualities that could be nerfed on logi (cap use, range, repair amount, cap use, fitting, cycle time) and decided to nerf all of them, while keeping all the same counters, making one of the counters more effective (target switching does more now that cycle time's worse), and adding a new counter (command destroyers can teleport logi away now). Even though the meta 4 reppers became the new compact versions, my Guardians and Augorors no longer fit, and would still be less effective even if they were. I have to either give them frigate-sized tanks or leave an empty high slot to make them fit again. All for a ship's easily countered, requires almost perfect related skills in order to fly at all, and can't do anything on its own.

And people are still saying they need to stacking penalize, have signature radius reduce repairs, or have a dedicated anti-repair EWAR module?



At least you fly armor shield has become a joke after this


Armor, better hp/s better cycle time longer effective range onto of it anyway having better buffer and resists to amplify the effect of logistics.

Shield, reps at start of cycle. .... woo any competent logi pilot can fly well enough that dealing with reps at the end of a cycle is not that big of a disadvantage



shield logi = has it easier to counter alpha
armor logi = has it easier to counter sustained dps

both however are viable ....


If that were the case it was all that separated them it would be great

To bad armor counters alpha better

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
suicide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#153 - 2015-12-13 19:05:51 UTC
I am super late to this party however could we change the medium cycle times to something between S and L cycle times?

It seems to me to be a slam-dunk obvious change.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#154 - 2015-12-14 08:42:05 UTC
Wow, why so much change in the PG/CPU? I have to rework almost every single logi fitting to squeeze them into the hulls.

Solo logi fits are no longer cap stable.X
Wait, I have a couple meta-fit T1 frigs that are stable (but over CPU/PG). Not much use for bantams and navitas thoughRoll

Bye-bye shield, hello armor. Is it possible to look at adding "remote shield augmentor "rigs, to match the armor ones?

...back to the fitting screens...
PlantythePottedPlant
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#155 - 2015-12-14 09:13:04 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Wow, why so much change in the PG/CPU? I have to rework almost every single logi fitting to squeeze them into the hulls.

Solo logi fits are no longer cap stable.X
Wait, I have a couple meta-fit T1 frigs that are stable (but over CPU/PG). Not much use for bantams and navitas thoughRoll

Bye-bye shield, hello armor. Is it possible to look at adding "remote shield augmentor "rigs, to match the armor ones?

...back to the fitting screens...


If you replace whatever remote repairer you have on the fit with the compact versions, it should fit I think.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#156 - 2015-12-14 15:15:39 UTC
PlantythePottedPlant wrote:


If you replace whatever remote repairer you have on the fit with the compact versions, it should fit I think.


Somewhat true. I should have paid more attention to the details before this release.
Basi and Guard fits are mostly ok but all the others required re-work.
Scimi could use those remote shield augmentor rigs.

Eh I'll stop whining nowBlink
Tassadar Gantrithor
Derp Company
Get Off My Lawn
#157 - 2015-12-14 22:26:43 UTC
Would it be possible to get the exact formula that the graphs are derived from? To be able to calculate the exact point at which certain values are present instead of by visual guessing from a very limited graph.
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#158 - 2015-12-15 15:34:52 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Solo logi fits are no longer cap stable.X

The idea is that you shouldn't be able to run all of your repairers stable anymore. Just like how every cruiser has a hard time running all of its guns, y'know?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#159 - 2015-12-15 23:17:23 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:

The idea is that you shouldn't be able to run all of your repairers stable anymore. Just like how every cruiser has a hard time running all of its guns, y'know?

Except the 75% of them that don't have trouble running their guns/launchers/drones.
So pretty much just the Amarr cruisers and maybe the Thorax.

However I'm quite sure you can also make cap stable solo logi fits. Just the old ones are no longer cap stable and you need to invest more into it.
PlantythePottedPlant
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#160 - 2015-12-16 01:58:07 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:

The idea is that you shouldn't be able to run all of your repairers stable anymore. Just like how every cruiser has a hard time running all of its guns, y'know?

Except the 75% of them that don't have trouble running their guns/launchers/drones.
So pretty much just the Amarr cruisers and maybe the Thorax.

However I'm quite sure you can also make cap stable solo logi fits. Just the old ones are no longer cap stable and you need to invest more into it.


I imagine the original quote was sarcasm.

Also, yea you can make them cap stable for sure. It's just you have to trade off for it, even more so than you used to. It's a straight nerf to only the exeq/Oneiros/Scythe/Scimi for a reason that's not clear, given the Aug/Guard/Osprey/Basi are all relatively untouched by the change to cap stability. The only change to my guard/aug/osprey/basi fits were changing the reppers to the compact versions and then they were fully cap stable.

Sure, they're less resistant to neuts, but then if you were under serious neut pressure in the first place chances are you were in a bit of trouble.