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I wish to discuss mining with you all.

Author
Iain Cariaba
#21 - 2015-12-15 03:34:02 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
If you don't like mining, stop.

Simple.


Oh wait look what I found: a nonconstructive post:

No, seriously, Ralph is right. I mined for 5 years. Now, I utterly hate it and am looking forward to the sp extraction crap to come out so I can make my characters all forget everything about mining.

The answer isn't to implement some new way to rake in AFK isk while keeping your isk mills protected in a dead end system behing fifty bubbles on a gate. The answer simply is:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
If you don't like mining, stop.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#22 - 2015-12-15 04:17:11 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns?

Cool so long as we can shoot them with only a suspect flag. Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-12-15 09:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
If you don't like mining, stop.

Simple.


Oh wait look what I found: a nonconstructive post:

No, seriously, Ralph is right. I mined for 5 years. Now, I utterly hate it and am looking forward to the sp extraction crap to come out so I can make my characters all forget everything about mining.

The answer isn't to implement some new way to rake in AFK isk while keeping your isk mills protected in a dead end system behing fifty bubbles on a gate. The answer simply is:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
If you don't like mining, stop.



Well, I would like to point out, that the base idea of drilling rigs are already there according to that dev post I've already linked. You know, platforms design to mine? I'm simply capitalizing on the dev post and attempting to suggest a mobile version, of a mining outpost that isn't to extremely over powered. Ontop of that why would you get a mobile mining outpost protected by 50 bubble camps, when you can just get a drilling outpost and protect it with 50 bubble camps. Roll

Edit: Actually I do have a question for you.

Sure I will accept if my idea is bad, however, what I don't understanding is the "LOL THIS IS BAD -1" Responses. Mining, while a much needed part of eve online, it has never really changed much, nothing new and exciting has never been put in, and this part of the game is heavily stagnant.

Why is it that you want to exist in a vacuum? Why is it that certain ideas (Or most of them in fact) receive so much direct opposition? Instead of the community working together, to better a game, they rather instead fracture and fight one another. Very rarely does the community actually come together. I personally didn't suggest AFK mining, or the ability to do so, instead I suggested an outpost that if left alone could be looted, shot, destroyed, with some rather steep conditions to keep it operational. I suggested drones, so that rats could shoot and kill it ability to mine if a player doesn't actively check up on it. But I wanted it to keep enough autonomy that it doesn't have to be babysitted 24/7 to keep working.

And yet, it called AFK mining. Then you put words into my mouth and suggest that I'm offering it as an answer to everything.
Let me quote you something.

Quote:
Now I'm not a believer of sudden big changes. I'm more of a believer of one small change over time till you get the results that are kinda desired. So I'm going to make a suggestion for a new Mobile structure for players.


You know where those words come from? That right, that in the original post, that I made. Suggesting that this isn't something that can be fix with a "OH MY GOD THIS IS A MASSIVE IDEA THAT WILL CHANGE 40 SOMETHING DIFFERENT THINGS RELATED TO MINING!" No this idea is just as I quote, a little thing, that with other little thing changes can hopefully improve the mining experience.

Edit two: "If you accept your idea is bad, then why do you keep posting!?" I keep posting because this accusations that I'm intentionally trying to make more ways to AFK mine is absurd, that what gets me going is that people are actively trying to put down an idea based on an assumption, despite me showing repeatedly that I'm willing to work with others to prevent my idea from being used in such a way, Take a look at the bottom of page one for example.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#24 - 2015-12-15 09:50:42 UTC
You should join an industy corporation. Your view reflects that you see the world from one single point of view and what will happen is that large member alliances will put hundrets of those in any belt or anomalie and bake super capitals and capitals even quicker than they do now.

Seriously we need less capitals, not more.

Losing is sad, I know and some folks like sitting in supercapitals to feel save and stuff but all the real fun and challenge is in subcaptials.

I mine from time to time, maybe twice a year and while it seems boring, waiting for someone to gank and collecting faction stuff in the process is actually nice.
So thank you True Sansha and Dread Guristas destroyer fo dropping a long point and a ballistic control in my lap to spare me the imagination of the Ferengi.

Mining can be cool, just don't do it all the time.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-12-15 09:59:05 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
You should join an industy corporation. Your view reflects that you see the world from one single point of view and what will happen is that large member alliances will put hundrets of those in any belt or anomalie and bake super capitals and capitals even quicker than they do now.

Seriously we need less capitals, not more.

Losing is sad, I know and some folks like sitting in supercapitals to feel save and stuff but all the real fun and challenge is in subcaptials.

I mine from time to time, maybe twice a year and while it seems boring, waiting for someone to gank and collecting faction stuff in the process is actually nice.
So thank you True Sansha and Dread Guristas destroyer fo dropping a long point and a ballistic control in my lap to spare me the imagination of the Ferengi.

Mining can be cool, just don't do it all the time.


you could not put hundreds of these in one belt, seeing combine with it the minimal distance away from the next closest anchored object, and the fact it still has a limited range that it can auto lock targets at. I forsee maybe 40 at one belt MAX before any more simply lack range to lock onto a rock, and even then, the mining speed, will never match a mining fleet operating in the same belt. Simply because you can A pack more mining ships in, and B the system was only meant to supplement mining operations, not take them over.

You can still do your mining fleets, you can still do what ever you want with your mining ships. These outposts are design with the idea to help better and improve the mining experience. That why I suggest the large mobile mining outpost to have such an expensive upkeep again at the bottom of page one. I feel that people arn't even reading everything, they are just posting.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#26 - 2015-12-15 15:52:23 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Already proposed some months ago I think, and same reception than here.

Asteroid belts need first to be dynamic like ice or null/wormhole one, because in quiet or secured system the "danger factor" comes only from npc, this thing would need to be way overpriced than a small mining fleet, because tthere is less risk using it than flying barges, and that doesn't take crystals into account too.

You mean...

Already proposed 200 times and same reception as here.

Yeah...

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-12-15 15:56:18 UTC
It's beginning to sound like a small Citadel with an automatic "Ore mining drone bay" in the highs. I have a hunch CCP has something in the make for those, as the citadels currently on the table are but a small subset of the grand design.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2015-12-15 16:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
Arya Regnar wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
Already proposed some months ago I think, and same reception than here.

Asteroid belts need first to be dynamic like ice or null/wormhole one, because in quiet or secured system the "danger factor" comes only from npc, this thing would need to be way overpriced than a small mining fleet, because tthere is less risk using it than flying barges, and that doesn't take crystals into account too.

You mean...

Already proposed 200 times and same reception as here.

Yeah...


Again, as I said, I have not found any threads relevant to mobile mining outposts.

Correction, I found a forum post asking for them in a thread dedicated to mobile structures in general

I found another thread for a full blown structure(not a mobile structure) which would help assist in defending miners. While the mobile structure I suggest is more like a depot or deployable tractor base. They provide no assistance with defending. They can hold stuff inside of them, and allow for a very limited refit of ships, and use only mining drones, drones that can be targetted and destroyed by rats. Ontop of that, require fuel to operate and strotium to activate it reinforce mode.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-12-15 16:07:52 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
It's beginning to sound like a small Citadel with an automatic "Ore mining drone bay" in the highs. I have a hunch CCP has something in the make for those, as the citadels currently on the table are but a small subset of the grand design.



Kinda? I really don't know, from my understanding citadels were meant to be rather large object, that in some respect are a pain the ass to kill, what I offer is something that requires far less people to set up, maintain and keep operational, and in turn much easier to knock off the board?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2015-12-15 18:35:45 UTC
Think Small citadel... or even X-Small. Not all Citadels are outposts; there's medium (POS) and small too Blink
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#31 - 2015-12-15 19:08:19 UTC
At first it was a massive -1, but a few thoughts:

* Make it be a passive base for the rorqual. You have to have a rorq parked in it for it to work.
* Once deployed you can't take it down for two hours. You can't undock the rorq during that time as well.
* No reinforcement timer. If it gets shot, it dies and generates a killmail (for the base as well as the rorqual)

Add a few things like this, then I will consider it
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#32 - 2015-12-15 19:51:44 UTC
Moon mining is afk mining, lets make it so that you need a cap to sit there and mine that instead. Risk vs reward, isn't that the null war cry.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#33 - 2015-12-15 20:29:20 UTC
Deukmans Fehrnah wrote:

if it doesnt provide decent yield there is no point in using it.

secondly, asteroids re-spawn AFAIK. anchoring them right makes them a permanent miner. to counter this it would need to have a small ore-hold/cargo-bay which means instead of mining in a barge you switch to a hauler and unload the dam thing every 5 minutes.

so it either is going to be a afk god miner or it would have the same problem as barges have

Unless it happens to be like Citadels and take over 24h to remove (Obviously would need vulnerability windows if this was the case to stop them timing it in the middle of your night). In which case it becomes an asset at risk in event of a wardec that needs protection. And things in space at risk during wardecs work to create larger corps in high-sec.
So it could be a very good thing and actually make high sec corps matter.
Xavindo Sirober
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2015-12-15 22:29:56 UTC
I think the way of this structure is a pretty good idea, it will likely need some changes but i definitly would want to deploy some of those

+1 from meBig smile
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-12-16 04:49:53 UTC
aldhura wrote:
Moon mining is afk mining, lets make it so that you need a cap to sit there and mine that instead. Risk vs reward, isn't that the null war cry.


Well, you kinda have to at least check up on it, one of the reasons why I suggest drones was because drones are targetable, they can draw agro if there nothing else for rats to shoot, what this results in is that if players don't do it, the AI will start to knock of your mobile mining outpost's ability to mine.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Iain Cariaba
#36 - 2015-12-16 10:43:19 UTC
The game needs fewer methods of AFK income generation, not more. Moon mining and PI need to be replaced with active methods to generate those resources.
Helios Panala
#37 - 2015-12-16 11:53:21 UTC
I wonder, imagine if barges never existed and mining had always been carried out by deploying a little automated mining base that gathered rocks for you while you sat in a combat ship defending it, or a transport ship shuttling the ore away.

Would anyone say it's a great idea to strip all that out and replace it with sitting in mostly defenseless barges?
Iain Cariaba
#38 - 2015-12-16 12:16:33 UTC
Helios Panala wrote:
I wonder, imagine if barges never existed and mining had always been carried out by deploying a little automated mining base that gathered rocks for you while you sat in a combat ship defending it, or a transport ship shuttling the ore away.

Would anyone say it's a great idea to strip all that out and replace it with sitting in mostly defenseless barges?

Roll
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#39 - 2015-12-16 13:55:27 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
...You can still do your mining fleets, you can still do what ever you want with your mining ships. These outposts are design with the idea to help better and improve the mining experience. That why I suggest the large mobile mining outpost to have such an expensive upkeep again at the bottom of page one. I feel that people arn't even reading everything, they are just posting.


Okay honey, first I do read and I am very observant up to the point people tell me that it is upright fearsome.

Second, I do know what you are proposing but I also know the nature of my fellow capsuleers and when you say "they won't - it is impossible" then I hate to breake it to you, it will be done and something seemingly impossible will become the new norm.

Back in 2005 titans were supposed to be unaffordable mealstroms of power and today you have people playing Ibis-ball (a bouncing game similar to soccer but with ships instead of a soccer ball) with titans.

If you are interested, I predicted meta changes up to a year before they happened am still many months ahead of time. Some even say I have the curse of precognition because I could not have known at the time of my predictions.

Anyhow, when many people tell you to do something else but mining maybe you listen for a change. I know people that love mining, some not, I do a little bit of everything but my game is planned so many ages ahead, some lose track in the process.

So my new love-interest is pvp as in ship vs ship combat, not in 4 bajillion super capitals having each others throats but small, micro and solo pvp, you know the challenging kind.
You can take it as you seem fit and when I mine I will have pvp in mind or am expecting pvp, even if nothing happens. So with that point of view your game will look so very different from now, I promise you that.

What you are proposing is an unnecassary mineral faucet which will lead to over-saturation of minerals which will be used for baking more and more capitals than ever before.
This will lead to over-over-farming of complexes with even more safety than they have now since your small gang cannot compete with 33 supercaptial complex farmers that make silly jokes in local about your "baby" gang that is no concern for farmville online.

The only good thing I can see is that every pricetag will go down to the appropiate levels I can agree upon.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-12-16 18:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Dragoon
elitatwo wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
...You can still do your mining fleets, you can still do what ever you want with your mining ships. These outposts are design with the idea to help better and improve the mining experience. That why I suggest the large mobile mining outpost to have such an expensive upkeep again at the bottom of page one. I feel that people arn't even reading everything, they are just posting.


Okay honey, first I do read and I am very observant up to the point people tell me that it is upright fearsome.

Second, I do know what you are proposing but I also know the nature of my fellow capsuleers and when you say "they won't - it is impossible" then I hate to breake it to you, it will be done and something seemingly impossible will become the new norm.

Back in 2005 titans were supposed to be unaffordable mealstroms of power and today you have people playing Ibis-ball (a bouncing game similar to soccer but with ships instead of a soccer ball) with titans.

If you are interested, I predicted meta changes up to a year before they happened am still many months ahead of time. Some even say I have the curse of precognition because I could not have known at the time of my predictions.

Anyhow, when many people tell you to do something else but mining maybe you listen for a change. I know people that love mining, some not, I do a little bit of everything but my game is planned so many ages ahead, some lose track in the process.

So my new love-interest is pvp as in ship vs ship combat, not in 4 bajillion super capitals having each others throats but small, micro and solo pvp, you know the challenging kind.
You can take it as you seem fit and when I mine I will have pvp in mind or am expecting pvp, even if nothing happens. So with that point of view your game will look so very different from now, I promise you that.

What you are proposing is an unnecassary mineral faucet which will lead to over-saturation of minerals which will be used for baking more and more capitals than ever before.
This will lead to over-over-farming of complexes with even more safety than they have now since your small gang cannot compete with 33 supercaptial complex farmers that make silly jokes in local about your "baby" gang that is no concern for farmville online.

The only good thing I can see is that every pricetag will go down to the appropiate levels I can agree upon.


First of all, it not a mineral faucet. Suggesting in adding in another mineral faucet would be me crying for them to add drone goo back. That would be an extra mineral faucet.

No, I understand, you are a precog. Thus you can predict a future that has far more variables then even I can account for. Which of course, means that your precog ability says even though there are mechanical hard locks, (Minimal distance they must be deployed from each other ontop of max distance that it can send it drones out.) Which of course means that mechanically, once you put enough on the top bottom left right front and back, then you can't really fit more into the area. However your precog ability tells you that they will still fit thousands of them when I once again say that I really don't see that happening.

As for back in 2005, yes they were meant to be used as a weapon of doom, however, you know what they turned into? Glorified bridge transports. Titans originally had an idea that they could send a dooms day through a cyno, and that would me you could make mobile smart bomb platforms that had the potential to kill everyone as soon as the cyno was lit. Of course this changed to making it into a giant smart bomb, which then was later changed to target only cap ships. Lately they are of course used as giant transports now, used to bridge sub-caps into battle. Of course based on what you said, that can't possibly happen because sov has turned into a cap vs cap blobfest. But, you are precognitive, so you clearly must be right, even after you admit that you are observant till random people start making "Then quit mining" rants. Despite the fact that I made this thread for improving the mining experience, I labeled it, I wish to discuss mining with you all. Not "HEY HERE A MINING BASE." If you don't think a mining outpost will work, please explain based on your precognitive ability on why they already plan on adding them in? Of course maybe in a way that you all might not, or might enjoy based on who you are. Those Drilling platforms look like a interesting structure.

Sure, you can try to afk mine with these structures, you can try to put hundreds if thousands of them into a belt, go for it, more power to the player, however they will still find that they spend hundreds of millions of isk on setting up a system that would do what barges already do, but of course the barges doing it much much faster, and strip mine a belt clean, and you are left with a bunch of random mobile mining outposts. Of course that assuming that no players, or rats come along and start to knocking off the drones.

I'm sorry that I don't put much stock in your precog powers, but I don't take stock in people when I've said repeatedly that I'm willing to work with them to change things, and all they do is basically tell me to "**** off" Lets get some facts for you

First, it not minerals, as you've said yourself, clearly minerals arn't a problem in their construction because titans were originally meant to be unaffordable mealstroms. The real price here, is the time it takes to construct a titan, and yes, it takes time, and outposts to construct titans something that most big alliances already have. So I actually find your precognitive points rather... moot.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

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