Player Features and Ideas Discussion

And you've been told by multiple people, multiple times why they're either mistake/bad/combination of both. Yet you insist on ignoring all of it and charging on regardless.

Some of them are SO bad, they should not require explanation as they're nothing short of a 2/10 troll.

They are just mechanisms in wormhole space that reduce Fozie's "pretty big psychological effect" derived from afk cloaky camping and other things. They are neither mistakes, bad, or a combination of both.

Morrigan
You probably should try to address the points, not the man making them for just a little bit. Brokk just asked moderators to review the thread.

I think characterizing vast groups of EvE players as "spineless" to be a weak argument (and probably against forum rules since brokk brought that up).

There are perfectly good mechanical explanations for why afk cloaky camping is not a worm hole problem. I am trying to identify what they are and what they would look like in null sec.

Nothing more and nothing less.

It's elementary dear Watson: a cloaky camper cannot scare you out of your pants if you can't see him in local chat. You being there 1 hour or 24 days AFK cloaked doesn't make no difference because nobody will know.

The "spine" comes from assuming there are hostiles in system and simply assuming you can either deal with them or afford the loss. It's not against forum rules to point out people wormhole dwellers roll with a different attitude -- it is even very much on-topic.

Firstly:
AFK-cloaking IS NOT an issue in anywhere else, besides sov-null. It has nothing to do with any in-game mechanic or "limiting risk" If it was a real problem, we'd hear more whine about it from other parts of space as well. Since we don't, we can pretty much conclude, that somehow a name in local is enough to drive sov-null ratters into safety and stay there, until they don't have a "threat" visible

Secondly:
The reason why I compared how PVE is done in w-space and in null was to show that both have their OWN versions to make it safer. Not safe, only safer. Those mechanics are tied to the landscape they are in and cannot be copied to the other without either being ineffective or breaking things in horrible ways. Some things are common in both places, but trying to make wormhole-mechanics work in nullsec is just complete lunacy.

Thirdly:
The pilots that live and PVE in wormhole-space know that there is always a chance to get screwed over by the randomness of the space they are in. No matter how much you try to diminish the chance of getting ganked, it is still there. They accept that danger and are willing to risk it.
Sov-null is about the safest place in New Eden to make your isk in. You have intel-channels feeding you information 10-20 jumps away and warning you if anything dangerous appears. Even if a wormhole spawned in the system, local will tell you there is someone new in the system. The warning-time you get in unparalelled in eve. Basically if you are awake and at your keyboard, you cannot get killed.
Those who complain about one dude in system with a cloak is stopping them from doing anything aren't really getting the idea of a sandbox, not to mention their risk-aversion is through the roof. AFK-cloaker is one of the few ways there is to exploit the perfect intel.

If you still keep on insisting that wormhole-pilots somehow have better ways to reduce the danger of getting killed, then you are nuts. You can see, predict and reduce the chances of getting killed in all cases EXCEPT ONE and that is too much? Yes nullbears are even more risk averse than people living in highsec.

Hey guys, please keep it on topic and civil. I don't want to have to go thread cleaning. Thanks!

I can actually give a pretty detail reason why.

The reason why the lack of local makes ratters feel safer, the answer it doesn't. Here what it does. Wormholes is universally accepted that if you go into one, there a likely chance there could be three or four hostiles waiting on the other side really to murder bone the living gajooie out of you, and whats you make it in, with all of your gajooie intact, you start to set up camp and attempt to earn isk. Your ship is (normally) already fully fitted to live there, or at the very least survive till you make enough money to leave and go some where else.. This is infact very much just like null sec when you travel from one gate to another, and then setting up camp to live there till you make enough money to bring back to high sec and sell what you found mined or killed.

The difference between the two is starked by local, Local provides a safety net if someone moves into the system, everyone gets a nice big warning that says. "OH HEY THERE A NEW GUY HERE!" and if that new guy is not blue, then everyone scatters and safes up so that they don't lose the ship they just spent 300 million isk on, it doesn't matter what this guy in. It freakes people out because they see this big bad name on local that could potentially be a hotdropo-clock alt.

The difference is actually rather simple. Local allows for those that are not potentially ready to join nullsec to join null sec. While wormhole space, you better be ready to go through that wormhole because you get ZERO hand holding in there. The difference it creates is the mindset of the players, you remove local, you start to force people's mindsets to change on how they perceive that section of space. Simply put, those that are ready for that section of space will join that space, those that are not, will stay in High sec. (Which also means you might see a increase cost of minerals and other such materials.)

afk cloaking is fine. Heres how you deal with it:

1) dock up your deadspace fit rattlesnake and your gecko carrier alt.
2) cloak a falcon and/or stratios/rapier/whatever you like, right beside an idiot who didnt dock his deadspace fit rattlesnake

thats it. If he is the type who attacks, then you'll get to gank him instead. If he's just the kind who sits there afk for days, then rat in another system until he goes away. he will go away eventually.

AFK cloaking is just part of daily business in 00. Its also a large enabler of solo pvp
There is plenty of 00 space that isnt used. Spread out. If someone is cloaky camping your carebear system, go carebear somewhere else. Put a cloak on your Ishtar and go do some havens elsewhere.

Dont feed them and they'll go away

Teckos
Typo. I meant implicit threat/big psychological effect stemming from afk cloaky camping that devs are looking into.

You seem to be arguing that omni damage rats like those found in wormhole space amounts to unacceptable player coddling. I would agree with the sentiment if we removed the word unacceptable.

In my opinion omni damage wh type rats do reduce the implicit threat/big psychological effect stemming from afk cloaky camping. For reasons given earlier.

Edit for the rather redundant post beneath this one.
Typo Teckos. I meant implicit threat/big psychological effect stemming from afk cloaky camping that devs are looking into.

Implicit threats/big psychological effect are by their nature hard to nail down with explicit definitions.

If we could define an implicit threat explicitly, it would be an explicit threat

Okay, so you are not going to define risk, implicit or otherwise...so it can mean whatever you want it to mean, essentially rubbish.