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[Market Orders and Contract Numbers] One last time w ATT CCP Quant
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Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#21 - 2015-12-12 01:40:58 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
[quote=Paul Pohl][quote=Caleb Ayrania][quote=Paul Pohl]

Price matching with Jita in outer regions never made sense to me. You should price your product in a range that gives no incentive for others to mix in your market portfolio on that location. Then you should scale your portfolio on that market with your ISK available. When people have to take effort to compete with your non Jita fixed price, they will simply skip. Over time you can even set a lower price on your product due to higher volumes. The skill you talk about to get stuff like this going in swing markets will always be around. With whatever system CCP tries to perfect imbalances in markets. Infinite sell orders would not change this.


They are not matching prices with Jita - there would be no pattern if they were - because there would be no profit

And I agree infinte sell orders - or indeed buy orders - is an idiotic idea
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#22 - 2015-12-12 11:13:43 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
[quote=Paul Pohl][quote=Caleb Ayrania][quote=Paul Pohl]

Price matching with Jita in outer regions never made sense to me. You should price your product in a range that gives no incentive for others to mix in your market portfolio on that location. Then you should scale your portfolio on that market with your ISK available. When people have to take effort to compete with your non Jita fixed price, they will simply skip. Over time you can even set a lower price on your product due to higher volumes. The skill you talk about to get stuff like this going in swing markets will always be around. With whatever system CCP tries to perfect imbalances in markets. Infinite sell orders would not change this.


They are not matching prices with Jita - there would be no pattern if they were - because there would be no profit

And I agree infinte sell orders - or indeed buy orders - is an idiotic idea


You clearly dont realize how underseeded the markets are compared to the volume of items and resources are in peoples hangars. With an industry to destruction ration of 3 to 1, and endless piles of "dead" or passive assets, the current price finding is only kept artificially high from limitations to making passive assets actives.

With more or infinite contracts and orders more of these assets would be put into rotation of the economy, and potentially get destroyed and thus sunk out of the economy. We have to much assets creeping, and no way to put it into generating content.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#23 - 2015-12-13 02:18:26 UTC
You clearly don't understand how the market works

Having infinite contracts and orders will just suck profit out, will not seed new markets and will be a disaster.

Go to any tutorial they will tell you to invest in consumables - and one of them they point to is ammo. They will also tell you that if you want to compete you will need 2 or 3 active market orders, in order to deal with 0.01 sniping etc.

Watch the market, this is precisely what you will see - and the net result is marginal profits for fairly large effort.

Of course what these tutorials don't say is that while market orders are tied up following their advice, the real money - 50, 100, 1000 times your investment lies elsewhere - and only exists due to there being a limitation of orders and contracts

Hence, why I suggest your plan will be a disaster, as it will merely extend marginal trading across the wider market - instead of having 2 or 3 orders sniping, there will be 5 or 10 or 100 in the main hub - and 5 or 10 in those regional hubs that a player, or a group of players, have spent time, effort and intel developing - (thus destroying the already existing 'newly seeded markets')

For now we don't need to get into why the tutorial advice on consumables is flawed to begin with.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#24 - 2015-12-13 03:36:44 UTC
Paul Pohl wrote:
You clearly don't understand how the market works

Having infinite contracts and orders will just suck profit out, will not seed new markets and will be a disaster.

Go to any tutorial they will tell you to invest in consumables - and one of them they point to is ammo. They will also tell you that if you want to compete you will need 2 or 3 active market orders, in order to deal with 0.01 sniping etc.

Watch the market, this is precisely what you will see - and the net result is marginal profits for fairly large effort.

Of course what these tutorials don't say is that while market orders are tied up following their advice, the real money - 50, 100, 1000 times your investment lies elsewhere - and only exists due to there being a limitation of orders and contracts

Hence, why I suggest your plan will be a disaster, as it will merely extend marginal trading across the wider market - instead of having 2 or 3 orders sniping, there will be 5 or 10 or 100 in the main hub - and 5 or 10 in those regional hubs that a player, or a group of players, have spent time, effort and intel developing - (thus destroying the already existing 'newly seeded markets')

For now we don't need to get into why the tutorial advice on consumables is flawed to begin with.


I dont use tutorials .. I make them..
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#25 - 2015-12-13 03:45:06 UTC
Good...

Keep making them....

It offers opportunities to make real money for the rest of us....
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-12-13 04:11:55 UTC
i don't really see what's wrong with having several tycoon characters.

one of the brilliant core game design principles of eve is that there are hard limits to what a single character can do, but practically no limits to what a single player can achieve.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#27 - 2015-12-13 04:31:25 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
i don't really see what's wrong with having several tycoon characters.

one of the brilliant core game design principles of eve is that there are hard limits to what a single character can do, but practically no limits to what a single player can achieve.

+1
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-12-13 04:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
oh, and lets talk real money

i started making it once i realized that there isn't much to be made from seeding every item in minihubs. i started making it once i started seeding the stuff that the guy who tried seeding everything missed.

a basket of only 6 items seeded in 15 different stations (that's 90 orders) pays for a plex a month.

and yes, i do hub seeding, and yes, it makes me good money. funny enough, i discovered that particular set of items while seeding a mini hub, which i still do. but that seeding is making me half the money per active market order compared to what these 6 items seeded in many places at once do. and the place i'm seeding has ~1500 market orders up. that means pretty much full coverage for subcaps.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#29 - 2015-12-13 10:27:23 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
oh, and lets talk real money

i started making it once i realized that there isn't much to be made from seeding every item in minihubs. i started making it once i started seeding the stuff that the guy who tried seeding everything missed.

a basket of only 6 items seeded in 15 different stations (that's 90 orders) pays for a plex a month.

and yes, i do hub seeding, and yes, it makes me good money. funny enough, i discovered that particular set of items while seeding a mini hub, which i still do. but that seeding is making me half the money per active market order compared to what these 6 items seeded in many places at once do. and the place i'm seeding has ~1500 market orders up. that means pretty much full coverage for subcaps.


This is true, but it is still very heavily dependant on status quo, so it borders a circular argument. The population is centralized, at a rather few hubs and everything else is handled internally or by time consuming travels for own usage imports and exports. The effect is that you cant "game mechanic wise" easily outsource your needs, and people rarely plan on what their casual styles need.

There are the 2 easier solutions of which one is mentioned already to make sales not effect the skill limit, the other is to make them per station, constellation or region. (There is an obvious skill there to be the next tier up for Tycoon characters)..
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#30 - 2015-12-13 10:31:12 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
i don't really see what's wrong with having several tycoon characters.

one of the brilliant core game design principles of eve is that there are hard limits to what a single character can do, but practically no limits to what a single player can achieve.


This is ofc true, but there should not be a hard motivation and enforcing of limitations to those that would prefer to keep the number of alts and accounts to a minimum.

On the short term it may sound like good business for ccp, but it really isnt. Its a major factor on burn out, and when the balance of how "easy" it is to make the isk for plex, it really only mean that more people get more "free" accounts, and that isk is generated faster bringing up the nominal value of things, and the purchasing power down. So people buying plex for real money get less value for paying to win.. This might seem like a good thing for the feeling of justice, but this in effect is a bad business model, if the pay to win aspect is not balanced, the payers will feel cheated and not want to pay again..
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