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Citidels For Individual Benefit

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Solecist Project
#81 - 2015-12-11 15:59:45 UTC
Literally last thing I want to see is highsec filled with citadels owned by scrubs in one man corps ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#82 - 2015-12-11 16:43:07 UTC
It'll happen and nobody will shoot them because they'll have their whole 20 minutes a week of vulnerability set in short intervals imidiately following downtime so 99% of the game's playerbase wont plausibly be able to attack them.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#83 - 2015-12-11 16:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Well, I thought this would be about something else. Specifically:

Right now I can make a one-man corp and put up a POS fairly quickly. If I get a war dec, I have two choices:

1) Defend my stuff.
2) Surrender, in that I take the POS down and lose its functionality for duration of the war.

If I know RL issues will interfere with option 1, I can just do option 2 before the war goes hot. Now, how is it with Citadels?

I can still do option one, unless RL prevents me from being there during its vulnerability window.
I cannot do option two because citadels take more than a day to take down. The war will go hot before the citadel is packed up.

So: For a one man corp, citadels are not viable. One war combined with one RL issue, and they are gone.

My solution: Citadels should take less than a day to take down.

Edit: Even small, two or three player corps will have an issue. It's quite easy for RL to make all of them unavailable during the vulnerability window. Citadels, as currently planned, are for the medium and above sized corps. Once POSes are removed, in-space structures for very small groups and solo players are gone.

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Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2015-12-11 19:37:58 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why would a single lonely player even want a station sized citadel all for himself? Sounds very sad to me...


I've mainly been a solo player since 2003, I have had many large POS (in null as well as HS) doing things to make me ISK, I used to BLOP, attend CTAs, structure bash/rep with alliance mates but my main play style was/is completely solo.

If I continue to play once POS are removed I will still need a way to do my POS stuff so I will have no choice but build or buy a replacement that suits my needs, I seriously doubt I'll need a station sized citadel but I'll definitely need something.

To some playing solo is sad I guess, but to me it's comforting not having to deal with other players who tend to be more like children than adults, I own my own business and I have to deal with that mentality almost every day so don't want that in a game I enjoy playing.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#85 - 2015-12-11 19:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It'll happen and nobody will shoot them because they'll have their whole 20 minutes a week of vulnerability set in short intervals imidiately following downtime so 99% of the game's playerbase wont plausibly be able to attack them.

Pretty sure minimum window is one hour at a time. And as soon as you start shooting it, it stays vulnerable even if the 'timer' goes over the window, as long as you stop the repair timer from happening. At least try to understand the mechanics surrounding their vulnerability before you complain about it, and don't put outright lies in your posts either.

& Vincent.
Tough luck, but yes that is how Citadels will work. Assuming you can't make either of the reinforcement timers either then yes, you can lose your citadel if you are war decced and offline for 3 days due to RL.
At which point you are out about 700 million for the citadel. Since..... RL issues that go that long would also have resulted in the loss of your POS, which also would have cost the same, I really don't see the problem with this.
And you then rebuild your citadel, recover your goods, and continue on your way.
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#86 - 2015-12-11 20:10:00 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I cheered when Nullarbor originally said that they were trying to make the new structures usable by individuals. Then I got mad when he said they would remain corp structures only. Then I thought it through and realised that there was no real alternative because of highsec aggression mechanics.

If you want a solo structure just form a corp with an alt.


I missed the second part of your first paragraph, apparently, as I was still under the impression that they were going to allow you to anchor citadels with the choice of for self, for corp, for alliance, whatever. I must have missed the change, when was that? It's a bit of a shame, though, because I could see many cases where it would be useful to allow individuals to anchor their own citadels. Not without some kinks, I'm sure.

It has been like this for ever, though, you've always either needed an alt corp or needed permission from your corp to give you the roles needed. Seems like it will be status quo moving forward.

ISD Fractal

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2015-12-11 20:23:30 UTC
There are not enough negative consequences to be in a NPC corp at the moment so giving players who are part of a NPC corp the ability to deploy citadels would be the complete wrong choice. It´s stupid enough to have all the "alts" in NPC corps so you can´t do anything vs them outside of low-sec / zero-zero.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2015-12-11 20:29:25 UTC
Trajan Unknown wrote:
There are not enough negative consequences to be in a NPC corp at the moment so giving players who are part of a NPC corp the ability to deploy citadels would be the complete wrong choice. It´s stupid enough to have all the "alts" in NPC corps so you can´t do anything vs them outside of low-sec / zero-zero.


If you cannot kill someone in high sec that is in an NPC corp, you are doing it wrong.

Besides, I have met plenty of gankers in NPC corps.

It's not like you can create throw away 1 man corps that disbands every time it's war decced.

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Bedalgeuze
Minmatar Marauders
#89 - 2015-12-11 20:31:59 UTC
ISD Fractal wrote:

I missed the second part of your first paragraph, apparently, as I was still under the impression that they were going to allow you to anchor citadels with the choice of for self, for corp, for alliance, whatever. I must have missed the change, when was that?



Don't think it has been changed. Probably just a bunch of assuming going on as usual.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2015-12-11 20:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: d0cTeR9
To sum it up:

OP wants a citadel that he can launch, anywhere, with zero need of skills/roles and with zero chances of it being attacked.

Sounds like you are playing the wrong game OP!

#Don'tFlyWhatYouCan'tAffordToLose
#CitadelsCanDieSameAsPOS's

Been around since the beginning.
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2015-12-11 22:03:26 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
To sum it up:

OP wants a citadel that he can launch, anywhere, with zero need of skills/roles and with zero chances of it being attacked.

Sounds like you are playing the wrong game OP!

#Don'tFlyWhatYouCan'tAffordToLose
#CitadelsCanDieSameAsPOS's

Who said I don't have the skills? I didn't say Pos's cant die...
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-12-11 22:04:18 UTC
ISD Fractal wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I cheered when Nullarbor originally said that they were trying to make the new structures usable by individuals. Then I got mad when he said they would remain corp structures only. Then I thought it through and realised that there was no real alternative because of highsec aggression mechanics.

If you want a solo structure just form a corp with an alt.


I missed the second part of your first paragraph, apparently, as I was still under the impression that they were going to allow you to anchor citadels with the choice of for self, for corp, for alliance, whatever. I must have missed the change, when was that? It's a bit of a shame, though, because I could see many cases where it would be useful to allow individuals to anchor their own citadels. Not without some kinks, I'm sure.

It has been like this for ever, though, you've always either needed an alt corp or needed permission from your corp to give you the roles needed. Seems like it will be status quo moving forward.

This is why I would love some clarification from the devs.
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2015-12-11 22:08:51 UTC
I will venture to say that no dev will comment as if they did what would be said today would most likely not be valid by this time next year, which is best TBH.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#94 - 2015-12-11 22:42:52 UTC
ISD Fractal wrote:

I missed the second part of your first paragraph, apparently, as I was still under the impression that they were going to allow you to anchor citadels with the choice of for self, for corp, for alliance, whatever. I must have missed the change, when was that? It's a bit of a shame, though, because I could see many cases where it would be useful to allow individuals to anchor their own citadels. Not without some kinks, I'm sure.

It has been like this for ever, though, you've always either needed an alt corp or needed permission from your corp to give you the roles needed. Seems like it will be status quo moving forward.

My understanding (could easily be wrong) is that they want players in player corps to be able to launch a personal citadel.
But NPC corp members still won't be able to do so.
Exactly what ends up being coded we'll hopefully find out in a Dev blog in a month or two.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#95 - 2015-12-11 23:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Will the average joe be able to own a citadel or will we have to have proof from a mega coalition? Roll Right now you have to have permission from your corporation, alliance, coalition or mega coalition to have a POS or Station.

I ask because CCP needs to stop giving a handful of people opportunity's and fun. I am tired of 1% of the population controlling the game.

This is a great chance for CCP to give power to the playerbase as a whole.


You mean, like owning your own "home" in space?

Well, if CCP were to implement proper player housing, player "houses" would be limited to one per account, would despawn and be stored after a period of inactivity, would be invulnerale and would provide no advantage over NPC stations... also would have nice fully customizable interiors where player avatars could meet each other and yadda yadda yadda..

That's what CCP would do if they were a ordinary company with a ordinary game and/or had any interest to implement player housing.

But CCP being CCP and EVE being EVE, and with CCP head over heels for PvP, Citadels are useless for any player not interested in PvP, and the same can be stated of whatever structures will come next. Read my signature for further detail.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#96 - 2015-12-12 00:01:44 UTC
Via tweetfleet slack, and i think eve vegas, there will be no launch for self option. You need to be in a corp. And even if you had a launch for self, your ceo/director could just come take it. if you want a citadel you either: get permission form your ceo or make your own corp.

With the citadels coming out however, the rights management is actually easier to manage and you cna set different rights for each citadel. So you could technically have your own personal citadel, but remember the ceo and directors cna mess with it.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#97 - 2015-12-12 00:04:11 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Will the average joe be able to own a citadel or will we have to have proof from a mega coalition? Roll Right now you have to have permission from your corporation, alliance, coalition or mega coalition to have a POS or Station.

I ask because CCP needs to stop giving a handful of people opportunity's and fun. I am tired of 1% of the population controlling the game.

This is a great chance for CCP to give power to the playerbase as a whole.


You mean, like owning your own "home" in space?

Well, if CCP were to implement proper player housing, player "houses" would be limited to one per account, would despawn and be stored after a period of inactivity, would be invulnerale and would provide no advantage over NPC stations... also would have nice fully customizable interiors where player avatars could meet each other and yadda yadda yadda..

That's what CCP would do if they were a ordinary company with a ordinary game and/or had any interest to implement player housing.

But CCP being CCP and EVE being EVE, and with CCP head over heels for PvP, Citadels are useless for any player not interested in PvP, and the same can be stated of whatever structures will come next. Read my signature for further detail.



Re your sig.. i'd like your source. because i'm not seeing anywhere where 60% of eve players don;t want what is coming.

oh and you have houses, they are called npc stations.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#98 - 2015-12-12 01:52:11 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Will the average joe be able to own a citadel or will we have to have proof from a mega coalition? Roll Right now you have to have permission from your corporation, alliance, coalition or mega coalition to have a POS or Station.

I ask because CCP needs to stop giving a handful of people opportunity's and fun. I am tired of 1% of the population controlling the game.

This is a great chance for CCP to give power to the playerbase as a whole.


You mean, like owning your own "home" in space?

Well, if CCP were to implement proper player housing, player "houses" would be limited to one per account, would despawn and be stored after a period of inactivity, would be invulnerale and would provide no advantage over NPC stations... also would have nice fully customizable interiors where player avatars could meet each other and yadda yadda yadda..

That's what CCP would do if they were a ordinary company with a ordinary game and/or had any interest to implement player housing.

But CCP being CCP and EVE being EVE, and with CCP head over heels for PvP, Citadels are useless for any player not interested in PvP, and the same can be stated of whatever structures will come next. Read my signature for further detail.



Re your sig.. i'd like your source. because i'm not seeing anywhere where 60% of eve players don;t want what is coming.

oh and you have houses, they are called npc stations.


It's the 1% of the 60% that make the 33% that make the wheel go round
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2015-12-12 04:15:05 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why would a single lonely player even want a station sized citadel all for himself? Sounds very sad to me...


You must not have considered what it would mean for the trading market.

In places like Jita and the major trading hubs, pirates who camp the trading stations and continually war-dec other corps or alliances so they can blow up your ships as you jump out of the grid can be a nightmare.

I do not know how the overview would show citadels in space, but owning your own personal Citadel may mean that you also have a place where you can store all your trading goods without running any risks with pirates and the like, and a place to operate out of away from high-risk zones like Jita.

True, you will have to defend your Citadel from any attackers that may come your way, but the vulnerability timer is always one of your choosing, so you can optimize your ability to defend it through setting of the timer.

At least, that would be one of the advantages I see for the Medium Citadel in a High-sec setting.

At a personal level, I feel it would be nice to have a structure that you can call your own home, or the home of you and your friends.
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2015-12-12 05:23:19 UTC
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why would a single lonely player even want a station sized citadel all for himself? Sounds very sad to me...


You must not have considered what it would mean for the trading market.

In places like Jita and the major trading hubs, pirates who camp the trading stations and continually war-dec other corps or alliances so they can blow up your ships as you jump out of the grid can be a nightmare.

I do not know how the overview would show citadels in space, but owning your own personal Citadel may mean that you also have a place where you can store all your trading goods without running any risks with pirates and the like, and a place to operate out of away from high-risk zones like Jita.

True, you will have to defend your Citadel from any attackers that may come your way, but the vulnerability timer is always one of your choosing, so you can optimize your ability to defend it through setting of the timer.

At least, that would be one of the advantages I see for the Medium Citadel in a High-sec setting.

At a personal level, I feel it would be nice to have a structure that you can call your own home, or the home of you and your friends.

^^ this
I really hope CCP doesn't make them mega coalition exclusive.