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Lv4s 350mil/h+: Breakdown
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Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#21 - 2015-12-11 15:21:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
1. Operation Frostline sites should not be included in the equation as they are not permanent content.

2. ~350mil split between 3 characters. The accounts may be prepaid, but it is still 356 divided by 3. Without 3 toons to draw the missions, you won't be able to do this.

3. Prices shown may vary. Those implants from the storyline don't always sell for 20mil a piece.

Can you replicate your results? Can you do this on a continual basis?

Personally, I just think you are bragging at this point.

Now for comparison, AFKtar could bring in 75-90mil an hour. So 3 AFKtars should bring in about 250mil an hour, and that is isk from just the bounties; not including good drops (if the person bothers to check for faction BS wrecks). AFKtar activity is not as intensive as the above, pretty much relax mode for earning isk.

So which activity is more out of whack?


Erm, what afktar ever made 90 mil an hour? It's physically impossible (ie the amount of DPS an ishtar could do even with guns would not defeat the amount of ehp in a site bigger than a hub in enough time to do this), even with faction spawns.

75 to 90 mil an hour is with an activly piloted pirate battleship or above. Drone boats top out at about 60 mil (or did before this week).


Is that with minimal drone skills, or are we talking max drone skills?

5x Ogre 2s nets me almost 800 dps. If I go the Gecko route, I'm over 800 dps. When I've ran one actively, I can usually get them done right around the 15 minute mark, which means I can get almost 4 sites in an hour on a good day.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#22 - 2015-12-11 15:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Estella Osoka wrote:
1. Operation Frostline sites should not be included in the equation as they are not permanent content.

2. ~350mil split between 3 characters. The accounts may be prepaid, but it is still 356 divided by 3. Without 3 toons to draw the missions, you won't be able to do this.

3. Prices shown may vary. Those implants from the storyline don't always sell for 20mil a piece.

Can you replicate your results? Can you do this on a continual basis?

1. This is why I listed them separately.
2. It's ISK/hour, not ISK/character. But whatever.
3. Yeah, typically they do.

With respect to your last two questions, yes - I can probably replicate these results or come close to it under comparable conditions. Can I do this on a continual basis - as mission draws dictate. This means I may have a period of less productive PvE'ing while queuing up the necessary missions. It's also hard to continually micromanage 3 characters in this manner without suffering some degree of burnout at which point one starts making inevitable mistakes that impact ISK/hour. I managed two sessions yesterday which for me is probably nearing my limit. Could I keep this up for more than 6 hours? Probably not.

Is 300m+ ISK/hour on the high side? Without a doubt. I'd previously been able to consistently break 250m ISK/hour, so I just needed the right conditions to push that further. A pair of instant/implant Storyline missions certainly didn't hurt - as did the 5 Frostline sites I happened upon. And some of the LP items I focus on were fetching a particularly high ISK/LP conversion.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-12-11 15:52:28 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:


What a tattletale you are, I bet every kid in your school hated you when you were coming up (assuming you're not a kid anymore). Your weird view of wanting balanced PVE is a major turnoff and will cause a lot more subs in Eve to go unsubbed if CCP decides to start listening to your rubbish. You need to get it through that weird thinking process of yours that what is enjoyable for YOU, WON'T be enjoyable for the masses.

Even the so-called unbalanced exploits in Eve wasn't easy mode. They required trained skills, years of knowledge of the game mechanics and resourcefulness to pull off. But maybe it's because you've been playing this game for far too long that you've become bitter about someone else doing something that they enjoy, that you NO LONGER enjoy. And so you've unknowingly (probably willing) began to reform into what is called the "bittervet". And it is your kind that is going to eventually destroy Eve.

And Arthur, this is the type of critter you DO NOT want to draw attention to with your breakdown threads.


Wow. How did you manage to fit all of that self-serving horse **** into a single post?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#24 - 2015-12-11 18:03:54 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
1. Operation Frostline sites should not be included in the equation as they are not permanent content.

2. ~350mil split between 3 characters. The accounts may be prepaid, but it is still 356 divided by 3. Without 3 toons to draw the missions, you won't be able to do this.

3. Prices shown may vary. Those implants from the storyline don't always sell for 20mil a piece.

Can you replicate your results? Can you do this on a continual basis?

1. This is why I listed them separately.
2. It's ISK/hour, not ISK/character. But whatever.
3. Yeah, typically they do.

With respect to your last two questions, yes - I can probably replicate these results or come close to it under comparable conditions. Can I do this on a continual basis - as mission draws dictate. This means I may have a period of less productive PvE'ing while queuing up the necessary missions. It's also hard to continually micromanage 3 characters in this manner without suffering some degree of burnout at which point one starts making inevitable mistakes that impact ISK/hour. I managed two sessions yesterday which for me is probably nearing my limit. Could I keep this up for more than 6 hours? Probably not.

Is 300m+ ISK/hour on the high side? Without a doubt. I'd previously been able to consistently break 250m ISK/hour, so I just needed the right conditions to push that further. A pair of instant/implant Storyline missions certainly didn't hurt - as did the 5 Frostline sites I happened upon. And some of the LP items I focus on were fetching a particularly high ISK/LP conversion.


No, it's isk/hour divided by the 3 characters. If you didn't have 3 characters, then your mission pulls would be 1/3rd of what you got.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#25 - 2015-12-11 18:10:24 UTC
If I was running a single character the ISK/hour would be substantially less than simply dividing by 3. You gain a lot from being able to micromanage and multitask with 3 characters, including but not limited to running additional missions or sites and looting and salvaging.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#26 - 2015-12-11 18:11:43 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
If I was running a single character the ISK/hour would be substantially less than simply dividing by 3. You gain a lot from being able to micromanage and multitask with 3 characters, including but not limited to running additional missions or sites and looting and salvaging.


Which is exactly the point I am making. Not everyone uses alts.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#27 - 2015-12-11 18:24:46 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Which is exactly the point I am making. Not everyone uses alts.

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make, to be honest. My wallet was still sitting at over 1.7-billion ISK when I was done, I didn't have to PLEX anything and I didn't feel as though I'd worked considerably harder (definitely smarter) than if I was utilizing a single character. There's a point at which the laws of diminishing returns starts to kick-in, where you spend more time setting up each mission, targeting, shooting and losing volleys or simply forgetting things like firing, reloading or navigating to gates.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#28 - 2015-12-11 18:34:18 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Which is exactly the point I am making. Not everyone uses alts.

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make, to be honest. My wallet was still sitting at over 1.7-billion ISK when I was done, I didn't have to PLEX anything and I didn't feel as though I'd worked considerably harder (definitely smarter) than if I was utilizing a single character. There's a point at which the laws of diminishing returns starts to kick-in, where you spend more time setting up each mission, targeting, shooting and losing volleys or simply forgetting things like firing, reloading or navigating to gates.


Ok, let me make it simple for you. Can you replicate everything in the first post with only 1 character (not using any alts), and have the same outcome?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#29 - 2015-12-11 18:37:12 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
OK, let me make it simple for you. Can you replicate everything in the first post with only 1 character (not using any alts), and have the same outcome?

I think that's already been asked and answered.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#30 - 2015-12-11 18:40:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
OK, let me make it simple for you. Can you replicate everything in the first post with only 1 character (not using any alts), and have the same outcome?

I think that's already been asked and answered.


Don't dodge the question. Yes or No?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#31 - 2015-12-11 18:48:13 UTC
personally when I run multiple characters I lose efficiency per character. Running 2 at 95% is certainly a large overall gain from one at 100% but dividing dualbox income by 2 doesn't give me single box income, nor does multiplying single box income by 2 get me dual box income. With 3 accounts I'd guess something like 80% effective. There is also a bunch of variability on what activities can I do? burner blitzing trying to run 3 would probably get me killed and often. Running two would probably work, but I'm sure I'd lose efficiency at a higher rate than say marauder full clearing.

Also with current decline mechanics I'm not sure that running more accounts gives a more favorable set of pulls. Although if you are going to do something like farm EA then having extra alts to pull more missions is a useful thing as each successful pull is several weeks worth of mission. 3 accounts with 3 slots each, that is a lot of mission :p

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#32 - 2015-12-11 19:14:16 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
personally when I run multiple characters I lose efficiency per character. Running 2 at 95% is certainly a large overall gain from one at 100% but dividing dualbox income by 2 doesn't give me single box income, nor does multiplying single box income by 2 get me dual box income. With 3 accounts I'd guess something like 80% effective. There is also a bunch of variability on what activities can I do? burner blitzing trying to run 3 would probably get me killed and often. Running two would probably work, but I'm sure I'd lose efficiency at a higher rate than say marauder full clearing.

Also with current decline mechanics I'm not sure that running more accounts gives a more favorable set of pulls. Although if you are going to do something like farm EA then having extra alts to pull more missions is a useful thing as each successful pull is several weeks worth of mission. 3 accounts with 3 slots each, that is a lot of mission :p

I hadn't planned on farming EA, it just worked out that way...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#33 - 2015-12-11 19:17:31 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
OK, let me make it simple for you. Can you replicate everything in the first post with only 1 character (not using any alts), and have the same outcome?

I think that's already been asked and answered.


Don't dodge the question. Yes or No?


I'll assume your failure to answer means, "No."
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#34 - 2015-12-11 19:54:56 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
I'll assume your failure to answer means, "No."

I suspect the answer you're searching for is "no", but it's not as simple as that and I'll try to illustrate why in as straightforward manner as possible.

First and foremost, using a single character (and no alts) you will be hard-pressed to draw a single "Enemies Abound" mission, let alone 2 queued back-to-back and certainly not 5 over a period of hours. I tried this just for kicks once upon a time and managed to completely destroy a 9+ standing in a matter of minutes... With three characters the chances of drawing "fluff" missions is also diminished, you have more opportunities to decline missions and of course repair standings if need be.

Second, even if you were fortunate enough to chain a few "Enemies" missions back-to-back, there is an upper limit on how quickly you can complete the series with a single character. "Enemies 5" has 6 waves that spawn in 4-minute intervals, so you will spend a minimum of 20 minutes simply waiting (call it 40 minutes to complete solo). With three characters I can simultaneously run the "Enemies 5" portion with one while looting or performing other activities with the other two.

Third - and this is probably the most important, there are inherent benefits in running multiple characters - namely the fleet boosts in inertia, shield and armor strength and targeting range (in addition to things like remote reps and drone assist). Having a fleet disperses incoming damage while allows you to tailor-fit ships for more damage and application than might ordinarily be available or required with a single character.

So the short answer to your question is "no", but the real answer is "hell no" - because you will be hard-pressed to surpass 60m ISK/hour (outside of blitzing) with a single character - let alone the 350m+ ISK/hour I was able to obtain with three.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#35 - 2015-12-11 20:27:19 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
I'll assume your failure to answer means, "No."

I suspect the answer you're searching for is "no", but it's not as simple as that and I'll try to illustrate why in as straightforward manner as possible.

First and foremost, using a single character (and no alts) you will be hard-pressed to draw a single "Enemies Abound" mission, let alone 2 queued back-to-back and certainly not 5 over a period of hours. I tried this just for kicks once upon a time and managed to completely destroy a 9+ standing in a matter of minutes... With three characters the chances of drawing "fluff" missions is also diminished, you have more opportunities to decline missions and of course repair standings if need be.

Second, even if you were fortunate enough to chain a few "Enemies" missions back-to-back, there is an upper limit on how quickly you can complete the series with a single character. "Enemies 5" has 6 waves that spawn in 4-minute intervals, so you will spend a minimum of 20 minutes simply waiting (call it 40 minutes to complete solo). With three characters I can simultaneously run the "Enemies 5" portion with one while looting or performing other activities with the other two.

Third - and this is probably the most important, there are inherent benefits in running multiple characters - namely the fleet boosts in inertia, shield and armor strength and targeting range (in addition to things like remote reps and drone assist). Having a fleet disperses incoming damage while allows you to tailor-fit ships for more damage and application than might ordinarily be available or required with a single character.

So the short answer to your question is "no", but the real answer is "hell no" - because you will be hard-pressed to surpass 60m ISK/hour (outside of blitzing) with a single character - let alone the 350m+ ISK/hour I was able to obtain with three.


And there you have it. While I applaud you for your efforts, what you are doing is essentially an activity that not everyone who plays the game can do. It's more of a high-end mission running niche.

Basically to get the same returns you are getting a player will have to use 3 accounts; and not everyone will want to have that many accounts, put for the effort of multiboxing said accounts, or just be bothered doing all that work (and it is a lot of work). It would probably be far easier for them to train up to do incursions while missioning, as it is far easier to and less time consuming.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#36 - 2015-12-11 20:34:27 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
And there you have it. While I applaud you for your efforts, what you are doing is essentially an activity that not everyone who plays the game can do. It's more of a high-end mission running niche.

Basically to get the same returns you are getting a player will have to use 3 accounts; and not everyone will want to have that many accounts, put for the effort of multiboxing said accounts, or just be bothered doing all that work (and it is a lot of work). It would probably be far easier for them to train up to do incursions while missioning, as it is far easier to and less time consuming.

A high-end niche is probably a realistic assessment. I don't have enough experience with Incursions to make a comparison beyond that I suspect my method might be more lucrative.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#37 - 2015-12-11 20:39:12 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
And there you have it. While I applaud you for your efforts, what you are doing is essentially an activity that not everyone who plays the game can do. It's more of a high-end mission running niche.

Basically to get the same returns you are getting a player will have to use 3 accounts; and not everyone will want to have that many accounts, put for the effort of multiboxing said accounts, or just be bothered doing all that work (and it is a lot of work). It would probably be far easier for them to train up to do incursions while missioning, as it is far easier to and less time consuming.

A high-end niche is probably a realistic assessment. I don't have enough experience with Incursions to make a comparison beyond that I suspect my method might be more lucrative.


Maybe, but let's say you a multi-boxing 3 DPS alts in an Incursion fleet (because the FC is fine with that), and that it is a HQ incursion fleet with a good FC, and you have the optimum amount of fleet members; you would most likely come out with a lot more isk than missioning.

FYI, Incursion HQ fleet members can usually make 100-150 isk/hr. That is not including the Concord LP payout at the end of the Incursion.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#38 - 2015-12-11 20:41:49 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Maybe, but let's say you a multi-boxing 3 DPS alts in an Incursion fleet (because the FC is fine with that), and that it is a HQ incursion fleet with a good FC, and you have the optimum amount of fleet members; you would most likely come out with a lot more isk than missioning.

FYI, Incursion HQ fleet members can usually make 100-150 isk/hr. That is not including the Concord LP payout at the end of the Incursion.

I don't have any experience with Incursions, but under ideal circumstances it sounds like you could make out like a bandit. Maybe this explains the repeated calls for nerfing high-sec Incursions...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-12-12 02:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Arthur, trained second chars on each of your accounts to fly merlins and train all social/mission related skills to lev 4 ( shouldn't take more than 6 weeks). Use these chars as mission pullers for Amarr in shuria where there are 2 level 4 agents. Grind them up with your Golems to run level 4s there and keep them there spamming EA. When you've chained 5-6 EAs, you can run them back to back to back etc...... This will be a very consistent way of making 250+ mill an hour.

Just another huge advantage multi-boxers have.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#40 - 2015-12-12 02:41:52 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Arthur, trained second chars on each of your accounts to fly merlins and train all social/mission related skills to lev 4 ( shouldn't take more than 6 weeks). Use these chars as mission pullers for Amarr in shuria where there are 2 level 4 agents. Grind them up with your Golems to run level 4s there and keep them there spamming EA. When you've chained 5-6 EAs, you can run them back to back to back etc...... This will be a very consistent way of making 250+ mill an hour.

Just another huge advantage multi-boxers have.

That's a definite strategy as well. I just find that after about 6 hours of PvE missioning I'm worn out.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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