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Level 4 missions working differently (bug?)
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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#41 - 2015-12-09 14:53:53 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
indeed im not making myself a victim on the contrary . But imho you are wrong , look here :
"Those "poor basterds" will now see their casual mission running efforts rewarded better. That's a win for this game."

I will still make the same amount of lp today and tomorrow , ill just skip those 3 missions , tbh i already was skiping 2/3 of them cos "effort" but now ill skip 1 more . So ill get same "sick bux" but who gets the nerfbat ... THAT dude not me , he is the one runing those missions clearing them. IF they remove ALL blitzing , it will be duno a 10% 20% nerf to me , (i can live with that) But it will be a huge nerf for the "poor guy" probably he doesnt even do burners .

Until there are ways of min-max , i will be doing whats best (thats not being egoist, doesnt make me a bad person) the one get hurt are the ones not min maxing .





Highlighted the issue here. And for the record, I "min/max" like you, I think the difference is that I'm willing to see what I do modified if it makes the overall game better , and IMO less wealth being generated is a good thing for all of us because eventually things even out and it makes all of our in game efforts actually worth more.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#42 - 2015-12-09 14:56:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ruvin wrote:
for those taking this as a nerf to inflation : you are wrong , first "mission isk injection is very very small" second lp injection + isk spent on cashing out lp is actually a sink . (incursions and IMHO anomalies are worse problems)


It's funny, people rationalize things like this as if they are doing something charitable. You are not, you are filling YOUR wallet, because while what you do might be a mechanical 'isk sink', it's not a WEALTH SINK. You are creating wealth for yourself.

The reason Blitzing is bad isn't isk generation, it's because it ends up depressing the LP of casual mission runners. The LP a casual mission runners is made worthless by min/maxer types making 10s of thousands of LPs per hour and turing those LPs into moduels and BPs that then flood the markets, lowering sell prices. That means a casual mission runner has to mission much longer to be able to afford anything with his now Zimbabwe like Loyalty points.

Jenn you couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. Don't know if I should cry or laugh.

- SOE LP is still worth the same as it was over a year ago.
- Incursion runners completely decimated 'casual' LP stores all over New eden because they can convert 1 concord LP to .8 LP of any other store.
- SOE LP was on the rise, until it hit the line where it was profitable for incursion runners to convert concord LP to SOE LP (at 1 to .4) and now it dropped again back to what it was.

You are so full of bull you can't see the lies you tell yourself to make your world go round. Everyone is laughing Jenn, and it sure as heck ain't with you.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#43 - 2015-12-09 14:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Anize Oramara wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ruvin wrote:
for those taking this as a nerf to inflation : you are wrong , first "mission isk injection is very very small" second lp injection + isk spent on cashing out lp is actually a sink . (incursions and IMHO anomalies are worse problems)


It's funny, people rationalize things like this as if they are doing something charitable. You are not, you are filling YOUR wallet, because while what you do might be a mechanical 'isk sink', it's not a WEALTH SINK. You are creating wealth for yourself.

The reason Blitzing is bad isn't isk generation, it's because it ends up depressing the LP of casual mission runners. The LP a casual mission runners is made worthless by min/maxer types making 10s of thousands of LPs per hour and turing those LPs into moduels and BPs that then flood the markets, lowering sell prices. That means a casual mission runner has to mission much longer to be able to afford anything with his now Zimbabwe like Loyalty points.

Jenn you couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. Don't know if I should cry or laugh.

- SOE LP is still worth the same as it was over a year ago.
- Incursion runners completely decimated 'casual' LP stores all over New eden because they can convert 1 concord LP to .8 LP of any other store.
- SOE LP was on the rise, until it hit the line where it was profitable for incursion runners to convert concord LP to SOE LP (at 1 to .4) and now it dropped again back to what it was.

You are so full of bull you can't see the lies you tell yourself to make your world go round. Everyone is laughing Jenn, and it sure as heck ain't with you.


Let them laugh, so long as the problem gets fixed and self serving min/maxers get brought into line with everyone else. This is happening, and you cannot stop it.

Also, I was running for SoE long before you came into this game, you know nothing of how it used to be.

Edit, BTW

Quote:
**CCP has started implementing various stealth nerfs (or their code base is far worse off than we thought and stuff is breaking all over the place) to normal LV4 missions blitz ability. It makes me a little proud that this guide is most likely the catalyst, though I guess it could just be coincidence. However was irks me to no end is how they are implementing these changes, via stealth nerfs to content 10years old, as if it’s some minor bug not worth mentioning. This is one of the worst things a company can do and CCP loses a great deal of respect, what little I had left, every time they do it.**


Add any more salt to that and you risk Hypertension.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#44 - 2015-12-09 15:07:38 UTC
I stand by those words and anyone in favor of stealth changes does not have the good of the game at heart. Stealth changes harm a game and a company and everyone should be against it if they cared even a tiny little bit.

Or you know 'salt'. More bull and null trolling.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-12-09 15:09:52 UTC
people aint in favour, people just dont care, i run lvl 4's myself and dont really care

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#46 - 2015-12-09 15:16:24 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
people aint in favour, people just dont care, i run lvl 4's myself and dont really care

I'll try and explain this to you again, it's not about the changes. The changes themselves mean next to nothing since they have actually little to no impact. It's the fact that these changes are made without announcement, discussion or hell even the common decency of a single line in the patch notes. This will then escalate to other things that DO matter, that DO make a difference.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-12-09 15:21:51 UTC
if it doesnt have any impact then who cares, why bother mentioning it? it clearly does have an impact or you wouldnt be claiming your guide is the reason

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ginnie
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-12-09 15:23:54 UTC
Very interesting observations...I will have to get back to running some missions tonight to see if I notice anything different.

I usually do run missions, but last night did some exploring and found a couple of 3/10 sites. I had forgotten how much I liked my Navy Omen and had to be reminded last night.

This does raise a question in my mind, I took about a two year break and returned in October. I noticed that the level 4 missions overall seem to be much easier now. Am I crazy or did they change something?

It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#49 - 2015-12-09 15:37:56 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
if it doesnt have any impact then who cares, why bother mentioning it? it clearly does have an impact or you wouldnt be claiming your guide is the reason

Huh, it really is like talking to a brick wall. What if they just one day removed stations and added citadels without putting anything in the patch notes?

It's called the principle of the matter. Are you familiar with this?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-12-09 15:48:03 UTC
blitzing missions and boasting a 200mil/hr highsec income isnt really the same as completely removing stations from the game, get with the program you already said it has no effect. if ccp want to stealth nerf things then they can, they dont need to tell you anything

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2015-12-09 15:51:47 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
blitzing missions and boasting a 200mil/hr highsec income isnt really the same as completely removing stations from the game, get with the program you already said it has no effect. if ccp want to stealth nerf things then they can, they dont need to tell you anything


blitzing and boasting =anize
removing stations = ccp
What is the link here ?

They can , but they shouldnt , it is a bad habbit , there are patch notes for a reason , and reading or not reading them cos it matters or not its another .
We can decide , we get the choice , to read or ignore them . If it involves a game mechanic in any way present or future its good to be aware of . Whatever that is .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-12-09 16:01:04 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
blitzing missions and boasting a 200mil/hr highsec income isnt really the same as completely removing stations from the game, get with the program you already said it has no effect. if ccp want to stealth nerf things then they can, they dont need to tell you anything


blitzing and boasting =anize
removing stations = ccp
What is the link here ?

They can , but they shouldnt , it is a bad habbit , there are patch notes for a reason , and reading or not reading them cos it matters or not its another .
We can decide , we get the choice , to read or ignore them . If it involves a game mechanic in any way present or future its good to be aware of . Whatever that is .



you know what i mean, fixing something to stop people like anize or removing stations is totally different and cant be compared.


Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#53 - 2015-12-09 16:08:39 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ruvin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
blitzing missions and boasting a 200mil/hr highsec income isnt really the same as completely removing stations from the game, get with the program you already said it has no effect. if ccp want to stealth nerf things then they can, they dont need to tell you anything


blitzing and boasting =anize
removing stations = ccp
What is the link here ?

They can , but they shouldnt , it is a bad habbit , there are patch notes for a reason , and reading or not reading them cos it matters or not its another .
We can decide , we get the choice , to read or ignore them . If it involves a game mechanic in any way present or future its good to be aware of . Whatever that is .



you know what i mean, fixing something to stop people like anize or removing stations is totally different and cant be compared.



But a stealth change is a stealth change. So you're ok with stealth changes so long as it isn't stuff that matters. Who decides if it's something that matters? Are only your opinions on if things matter valid? What if only things I find important need to be in the patch notes? Lets say I don't care for Faction war so nothing related to faction war needs to be in the patch notes. Does that sound right to you? Of course not.

That's why every change needs to be in the patch notes. If it's not in the patch notes it's a bug and needs to be fixed. It's as simple as that.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#54 - 2015-12-09 16:10:07 UTC
Ruvin wrote:

Gone berserk , 3 groups with their own waves , "blitz" one group with its respective waves must be killed : now you must kill ALL .


Did you the mission in fleet?

In my experience blitz won't work in fleet.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#55 - 2015-12-09 16:21:14 UTC
Mr Mac wrote:
Ruvin wrote:

Gone berserk , 3 groups with their own waves , "blitz" one group with its respective waves must be killed : now you must kill ALL .


Did you the mission in fleet?

In my experience blitz won't work in fleet.

I tested it solo. The mission is bugged or changed.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-12-09 16:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Anize Oramara wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Ruvin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
blitzing missions and boasting a 200mil/hr highsec income isnt really the same as completely removing stations from the game, get with the program you already said it has no effect. if ccp want to stealth nerf things then they can, they dont need to tell you anything


blitzing and boasting =anize
removing stations = ccp
What is the link here ?

They can , but they shouldnt , it is a bad habbit , there are patch notes for a reason , and reading or not reading them cos it matters or not its another .
We can decide , we get the choice , to read or ignore them . If it involves a game mechanic in any way present or future its good to be aware of . Whatever that is .



you know what i mean, fixing something to stop people like anize or removing stations is totally different and cant be compared.



But a stealth change is a stealth change. So you're ok with stealth changes so long as it isn't stuff that matters. Who decides if it's something that matters? Are only your opinions on if things matter valid? What if only things I find important need to be in the patch notes? Lets say I don't care for Faction war so nothing related to faction war needs to be in the patch notes. Does that sound right to you? Of course not.

That's why every change needs to be in the patch notes. If it's not in the patch notes it's a bug and needs to be fixed. It's as simple as that.


Obviously ccp decides if it matters, microsoft done the same, decided not to release patch notes unless it was significant changes and as you have stated these have no effect

I kinda got excited by all the changes i logged into yesterday so everything was a stealth change :)

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#57 - 2015-12-09 16:46:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is one of the best days I've had in a long time. CCP accidentally makes PVE more balanced across the board, Drones are getting slaughtered in anoms and missions, some missions are no longer blitzable, FW missions are now way tougher for small cheap ships and incursion fleet comps are changing to include both more logi (meaning less DPS) and on grid boosters (also meaning at least 2 less DPS ships).

My fear is that CCP is going to balk like they did right after the 1st anom nerf (where they un-nerfed the damn things and brought back the same problem they had just fixed) because people (who became spoiled by all the easy isk) will complain very loudly.

They (the spoiled PVErs) don't understand that chopping down some of this outrageous isk/wealth creation actually makes EVERYTHING in the game more valuable (and thus worth doing/experiencing) in the long run. All we have to do is survive the initial period of pain as markets adjust to the lower incomes (as isk and plex hordes are depleted)..


Just want to clarify something here. The FW mission nerfs have been wanted by Gallente militia pilots for years. Gallente FW missions were undoable in a bomber since their inception. Kinda hard to do the mission when you are being perma-jammed. Only way to do them efficiently was in a Vexor Navy Issue.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#58 - 2015-12-09 18:54:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Check my guide, I personally tested them myself. I've sent in bug reports if they are bugs. Also Blitzing and running burners inject less isk into the game than running Anoms or incursions. It's also self correcting because if there is an oversupply of LP items they're worth less (on the upside, cheaper Stratioses for everyone!). Anything else?


Translation: "The unbalanced thing I enjoy is actually ok because it has some questionable and mostly non-existent fringe benefits that I just rationalized".

Excuse me if the translation isn't perfect, still figuring out Oramaeze, it's a new language and all Twisted

I'm not going to say they are balanced, but they do have a few self stabilizing mechanics which is a good thing.

Jenn aSide wrote:
The reason Blitzing is bad isn't isk generation, it's because it ends up depressing the LP of casual mission runners. The LP a casual mission runners is made worthless by min/maxer types making 10s of thousands of LPs per hour and turing those LPs into moduels and BPs that then flood the markets, lowering sell prices. That means a casual mission runner has to mission much longer to be able to afford anything with his now Zimbabwe like Loyalty points.

I dunno. Before the LP store I'd farm agents up to 15k LP and hope for a connections skill book offer. LP used to be agent specific and every so often they would offer you something. Back when the LP store was still newish I thought it was awesome to get 1000 isk/lp for CN cruise bpcs. and the faction ammo trade was pretty huge too. Then I discovered 3k-5k IN Energized adaptive nano membranes P

these days for a newb it is super easy to start with SoE and be at 1500-1800. Also for a newb I'd guess most of the "reward' is in the liquid isk they get, and they kinda see the LP at some point and trade it for 500 isk/lp on some ammo, because they just don't even know what it is or what alternatives there are.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#59 - 2015-12-09 19:07:31 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
i like gatecamping and thats just been buffed Big smile
Is this the grid change, or something else?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#60 - 2015-12-09 19:22:17 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
i like gatecamping and thats just been buffed Big smile
Is this the grid change, or something else?


Don't see how grid change would have any effect. As long as it still takes a server tick to catch people, I don't see any buff.