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Level 4 missions working differently (bug?)
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Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#21 - 2015-12-09 13:28:02 UTC
Yea, like you said, I have a skill plan for new players, everything in the guide is written to be very easy to understand and follow for new players. I try not to assume too much previous knowledge (but I am only human, if you have suggestions please mail me!) New players will come into contact with Lv4 missions, the ones I list in my guide within the first few months of their play. The skill plan is built so that they can get into lv4s as quickly as possible and then guide them to start doing burners as quickly as possible. Once the year of trainign is complete they should be able to do almost EVERY burner. It's a journey, a process if you will.

You don't seem to have trouble *reading* you just seem to have some difficulty *understanding*.

But it's ok, you'll get there eventually.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-12-09 13:31:37 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
And who the heck was talking about NPC null? Are you a landscape engineer because you're really good at moving goalposts.


You are shifting the goalposts, you dont get lvl 4 missions in sov space so what does that have to do with anything?

"second : NPC nullsec may not be as safe as HS but its far from "deadly" , no suicide people , no wars , no random neutrals .
If you control the pocket you live in , and you know what the hell you are doing it can be pretty damn safe . I wont post all the "theory" but trust me , want to prove me wrong ? Find me a "pve" lose , there are some but they are little , and 99% its pilot fault ."

ok you are just being silly now....bubbles, capitals, black ops, cyno's, no concord, no need for wars, random neutrals, i think you should post all the theory because id be delighted to see it.

you cant control npc nullsec so where are you going with this? and pve loses, killed plenty of them in curse when i was there


https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001011/losses/

find me the PVE loses , some of us live in Venal for 10 years or so .
And we are surounded by CFC , goons , co2 , fcon , bastion and everyone else . Still somehow we dont have troubles with all you linked .

Dscan , nullified ships , mission gates , you wont cyno in a mision pocket , those are not anomalies those are missions . they also last 2-5 minutes MAX .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2015-12-09 13:36:31 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/2TwrvRs.png

i lost more ships farming anomalies in 1 month , then pve ships in all the time doing missiong in null . to be fair , i have lost exactly 0 pve ships .
If we dont count those to rats , to lasy to install sisi and was testing on tranquility .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-12-09 13:41:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
im not going to cypher through your killboard looking for pve losses because it really means nothing, you said numerous reasons why null isnt deadly like "random neutrals", "no wars" which is a load of crap because null is full of random neutrals and you dont need wars you can shoot anyone anywhere, as i said we killed plenty of mission runners in curse using bubbles, blops, roaming fleets, none of which are possible in highsec.

Isnt every loss pilot error regardless what space you are in?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2015-12-09 13:46:08 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
im not going to cypher through your killboard looking for pve losses because it really means nothing, you said numerous reasons why null isnt deadly like "random neutrals", "no wars" which is a load of crap because null is full of random neutrals and you dont need wars you can shoot anyone anywhere, as i said we killed plenty of mission runners in curse using bubbles, blops, roaming fleets, none of which are possible in highsec.

Isnt every loss pilot error regardless what space you are in?



whatever , you have your truth i have mine .

Can we focus on the problem ?




p.s Anize Oramara for all that matter if you would really want to , you would be able to perform all your activity in null . Probably you dont "need" it , but there are plenty living even solo in hostile territories so its possible . just my 2 cents .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#26 - 2015-12-09 13:49:34 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
TO be clear, my issue is with how they are implementing these changes, under the table, no patch notes. It's the worst way a company can make any changes, especially nerfs. Unless of course you think that it's ok? I doubt I'll get a straight answer on this.

And yet there is no proof to be had that these missions have been changed. A small handful of players complaining about what might be a bug does not make a stealth nerf.

Even if true it would hardly be the first time that a "bug" has been left in the game because it proved to be a good thing (jump clone standings I am looking at you). And yes I do think that these claims of 100 - 200 million plus per hour for blitzing missions is a bad thing for the game, but then so are Incursions for the same reason to much ISK for to little risk.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-12-09 13:58:39 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
im not going to cypher through your killboard looking for pve losses because it really means nothing, you said numerous reasons why null isnt deadly like "random neutrals", "no wars" which is a load of crap because null is full of random neutrals and you dont need wars you can shoot anyone anywhere, as i said we killed plenty of mission runners in curse using bubbles, blops, roaming fleets, none of which are possible in highsec.

Isnt every loss pilot error regardless what space you are in?



whatever , you have your truth i have mine .

Can we focus on the problem ?




p.s Anize Oramara for all that matter if you would really want to , you would be able to perform all your activity in null . Probably you dont "need" it , but there are plenty living even solo in hostile territories so its possible . just my 2 cents .



I dont see having to kill everything in a mission as a problem

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2015-12-09 13:58:57 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
TO be clear, my issue is with how they are implementing these changes, under the table, no patch notes. It's the worst way a company can make any changes, especially nerfs. Unless of course you think that it's ok? I doubt I'll get a straight answer on this.

And yet there is no proof to be had that these missions have been changed. A small handful of players complaining about what might be a bug does not make a stealth nerf.

Even if true it would hardly be the first time that a "bug" has been left in the game because it proved to be a good thing (jump clone standings I am looking at you). And yes I do think that these claims of 100 - 200 million plus per hour for blitzing missions is a bad thing for the game, but then so are Incursions for the same reason to much ISK for to little risk.



Are you serius ? There is no proof ? dude go make a "Gone berserk" or "Assault" mission , 100% those ARE changed , small handfull ? my alliance doesnt really post here , we have official "CCP" on eve ru forum aswell , but i wanted to post here aswell for more visibility , if i post here or i ask 30 people from TS now come here and post "its true" would that change the "issue" ?

Why this is a discussion about profit ? people make more farming anomalies being afk . I want just to know , is it a nerf or a bug , if more mission are impacted or not .

Mission reward didnt changed almost at all in all this years , if its broken now , what about when you could make 100kk X hour while plex cost was 300kk , 3 hour doing mission = plex . Then it wasnt a problem , it is now tho and needs fixing ?!

Stop being so selfish , if you dont really contribute to the issue only flaming mission runers there are plenty of other topics or suggestions ?

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2015-12-09 14:00:43 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ruvin wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
im not going to cypher through your killboard looking for pve losses because it really means nothing, you said numerous reasons why null isnt deadly like "random neutrals", "no wars" which is a load of crap because null is full of random neutrals and you dont need wars you can shoot anyone anywhere, as i said we killed plenty of mission runners in curse using bubbles, blops, roaming fleets, none of which are possible in highsec.

Isnt every loss pilot error regardless what space you are in?



whatever , you have your truth i have mine .

Can we focus on the problem ?




p.s Anize Oramara for all that matter if you would really want to , you would be able to perform all your activity in null . Probably you dont "need" it , but there are plenty living even solo in hostile territories so its possible . just my 2 cents .



I dont see having to kill everything in a mission as a problem


the problem is "changing something" without the expected warning , if something changes in good or bad (gila nerf is an example) i would prefer to know it . want to make a point here : "I AM NOT WHINING" about the nerf , i can live with it . I just want to have a clarification .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2015-12-09 14:05:45 UTC
This is one of the best days I've had in a long time. CCP accidentally makes PVE more balanced across the board, Drones are getting slaughtered in anoms and missions, some missions are no longer blitzable, FW missions are now way tougher for small cheap ships and incursion fleet comps are changing to include both more logi (meaning less DPS) and on grid boosters (also meaning at least 2 less DPS ships).

My fear is that CCP is going to balk like they did right after the 1st anom nerf (where they un-nerfed the damn things and brought back the same problem they had just fixed) because people (who became spoiled by all the easy isk) will complain very loudly.

They (the spoiled PVErs) don't understand that chopping down some of this outrageous isk/wealth creation actually makes EVERYTHING in the game more valuable (and thus worth doing/experiencing) in the long run. All we have to do is survive the initial period of pain as markets adjust to the lower incomes (as isk and plex hordes are depleted)..
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#31 - 2015-12-09 14:07:42 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
im not going to cypher through your killboard looking for pve losses because it really means nothing,

But Lan, if it doesn't mean anything, why were you making such a huge fuss about it? Man so full of bull.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-12-09 14:08:11 UTC
you have to look at a few issues to why this may have happened, bug or stealth nerf, you have on 1 hand people complaining about the prices of plex and eve is dying then on the other hand you have people posting guides on how to make 200mil an hour in highsec and 800mil an hour in a stealth bomber through fw missions.

However this is just a theory to a stealth nerf which doesnt really have any other explanation other than income as both lvl 4 blitzing and fw missions both received nerfs

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-12-09 14:09:23 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
im not going to cypher through your killboard looking for pve losses because it really means nothing,

But Lan, if it doesn't mean anything, why were you making such a huge fuss about it? Man so full of bull.


you need to read a little more before opening your mouth

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#34 - 2015-12-09 14:12:15 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
TO be clear, my issue is with how they are implementing these changes, under the table, no patch notes. It's the worst way a company can make any changes, especially nerfs. Unless of course you think that it's ok? I doubt I'll get a straight answer on this.

And yet there is no proof to be had that these missions have been changed. A small handful of players complaining about what might be a bug does not make a stealth nerf.

Even if true it would hardly be the first time that a "bug" has been left in the game because it proved to be a good thing (jump clone standings I am looking at you). And yes I do think that these claims of 100 - 200 million plus per hour for blitzing missions is a bad thing for the game, but then so are Incursions for the same reason to much ISK for to little risk.

Check my guide, I personally tested them myself. I've sent in bug reports if they are bugs. Also Blitzing and running burners inject less isk into the game than running Anoms or incursions. It's also self correcting because if there is an oversupply of LP items they're worth less (on the upside, cheaper Stratioses for everyone!). Anything else?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#35 - 2015-12-09 14:16:42 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
TO be clear, my issue is with how they are implementing these changes, under the table, no patch notes. It's the worst way a company can make any changes, especially nerfs. Unless of course you think that it's ok? I doubt I'll get a straight answer on this.

And yet there is no proof to be had that these missions have been changed. A small handful of players complaining about what might be a bug does not make a stealth nerf.

Even if true it would hardly be the first time that a "bug" has been left in the game because it proved to be a good thing (jump clone standings I am looking at you). And yes I do think that these claims of 100 - 200 million plus per hour for blitzing missions is a bad thing for the game, but then so are Incursions for the same reason to much ISK for to little risk.

Check my guide, I personally tested them myself. I've sent in bug reports if they are bugs. Also Blitzing and running burners inject less isk into the game than running Anoms or incursions. It's also self correcting because if there is an oversupply of LP items they're worth less (on the upside, cheaper Stratioses for everyone!). Anything else?


Translation: "The unbalanced thing I enjoy is actually ok because it has some questionable and mostly non-existent fringe benefits that I just rationalized".

Excuse me if the translation isn't perfect, still figuring out Oramaeze, it's a new language and all Twisted
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#36 - 2015-12-09 14:19:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
TO be clear, my issue is with how they are implementing these changes, under the table, no patch notes. It's the worst way a company can make any changes, especially nerfs. Unless of course you think that it's ok? I doubt I'll get a straight answer on this.

And yet there is no proof to be had that these missions have been changed. A small handful of players complaining about what might be a bug does not make a stealth nerf.

Even if true it would hardly be the first time that a "bug" has been left in the game because it proved to be a good thing (jump clone standings I am looking at you). And yes I do think that these claims of 100 - 200 million plus per hour for blitzing missions is a bad thing for the game, but then so are Incursions for the same reason to much ISK for to little risk.

Check my guide, I personally tested them myself. I've sent in bug reports if they are bugs. Also Blitzing and running burners inject less isk into the game than running Anoms or incursions. It's also self correcting because if there is an oversupply of LP items they're worth less (on the upside, cheaper Stratioses for everyone!). Anything else?


Translation: "The unbalanced thing I enjoy is actually ok because it has some questionable and mostly non-existent fringe benefits that I just rationalized".

Excuse me if the translation isn't perfect, still figuring out Oramaeze, it's a new language and all Twisted

Oh hay, I sure missed those personal attacks. Same sad tune Jenn. Maybe one day you'll learn a new one but hat day is not this day. But hay, I've gt a few hours, lets see how creative you'll get with your insults this time, it's all you have after all.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2015-12-09 14:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruvin
for those taking this as a nerf to inflation : you are wrong , first "mission isk injection is very very small" second lp injection + isk spent on cashing out lp is actually a sink . (incursions and IMHO anomalies are worse problems)

Second this doesnt affect almost at all mission runers , it doesnt nerf our income or anything , you can decline like 40 missions for 0.1 standing lose , which is small considering the storylines . With the epic arcs/storyline each 16 mission you can decline hundreds , even if they removed ALL lvl 4 , and left only the burners , the impact would be minimal to the ones you "hate" it would only impact poor basterds starting to do missions for profit .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#38 - 2015-12-09 14:32:45 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
for those taking this as a nerf to inflation : you are wrong , first "mission isk injection is very very small" second lp injection + isk spent on cashing out lp is actually a sink . (incursions and IMHO anomalies are worse problems)


It's funny, people rationalize things like this as if they are doing something charitable. You are not, you are filling YOUR wallet, because while what you do might be a mechanical 'isk sink', it's not a WEALTH SINK. You are creating wealth for yourself.

The reason Blitzing is bad isn't isk generation, it's because it ends up depressing the LP of casual mission runners. The LP a casual mission runners is made worthless by min/maxer types making 10s of thousands of LPs per hour and turing those LPs into moduels and BPs that then flood the markets, lowering sell prices. That means a casual mission runner has to mission much longer to be able to afford anything with his now Zimbabwe like Loyalty points.

This is why High Sec lvl 5s were bad (LP flooding). This is why being able to do FW missions in bombers was bad (LP flooding). and this is why mission/burn blitzing is bad also.


Quote:

Second this doesnt affect almost at all mission runers , it doesnt nerf our income or anything , you can decline like 40 missions for 0.1 standing lose , which is small considering the storylines . With the epic arcs/storyline each 16 mission you can decline hundreds , even if they removed ALL lvl 4 , and left only the burners , the impact would be minimal to the ones you "hate" it would only impact poor basterds starting to do missions for profit .


Those "poor basterds" will now see their casual mission running efforts rewarded better. That's a win for this game.
Paranoid Loyd
#39 - 2015-12-09 14:40:57 UTC
Lol

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2015-12-09 14:40:57 UTC
indeed im not making myself a victim on the contrary . But imho you are wrong , look here :
"Those "poor basterds" will now see their casual mission running efforts rewarded better. That's a win for this game."

I will still make the same amount of lp today and tomorrow , ill just skip those 3 missions , tbh i already was skiping 2/3 of them cos "effort" but now ill skip 1 more . So ill get same "sick bux" but who gets the nerfbat ... THAT dude not me , he is the one runing those missions clearing them. IF they remove ALL blitzing , it will be duno a 10% 20% nerf to me , (i can live with that) But it will be a huge nerf for the "poor guy" probably he doesnt even do burners .

Until there are ways of min-max , i will be doing whats best (thats not being egoist, doesnt make me a bad person) the one get hurt are the ones not min maxing .



Opportunities multiply as they are seized.