These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4141 - 2015-12-09 05:40:57 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Bottom line is I see you as full of ****. You want your early warning invulnerable intel system...but want cloak users to have more risk...and somehow that is balanced. Sorry, I find that to be a complete load of phoking bullshit.


"more effort for thee but not for me"

~Carebears.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4142 - 2015-12-09 05:42:58 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
At least, right and proper so long as it does not affect him in any way.


And of course all you can really do is just lie and spout personal attacks. That's all you've ever done.

Removing local would most certainly effect my gameplay negatively, but it would do so for all parties, which is about the only fair thing I've seen proposed thus far in this miserable tearful excuse for a thread.

Cry more.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4143 - 2015-12-09 05:44:28 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Bottom line is I see you as full of ****. You want your early warning invulnerable intel system...but want cloak users to have more risk...and somehow that is balanced. Sorry, I find that to be a complete load of phoking bullshit.



Not more risk. Some risk. At all.

Currently you have no risk that you do not specifically choose. We can go back to you telling me when it's OK that I expose myself to a known quantity of risk once a month or so and be completely safe the rest while maintaining effectiveness at what I choose to do.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4144 - 2015-12-09 05:49:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
At least, right and proper so long as it does not affect him in any way.


And of course all you can really do is just lie and spout personal attacks. That's all you've ever done.

Removing local would most certainly effect my gameplay negatively, but it would do so for all parties, which is about the only fair thing I've seen proposed thus far in this miserable tearful excuse for a thread.

Cry more.


Removing local would negatively impact your gameplay by requiring you to hit Dscan once upon entering a system. Yep.. Huge downside there, compared to the eternal hammering of Dscan now required by your targets.

You are a liar and a coward too afraid to face anyone when you don't hold every single advantage. Even the rats are too frightening for you, which is why you limit yourself to things that don't have guns in conditions where concord will protect the only actual part of your attack at risk of non-consensual enemy activity.

Keep it up and you will need a lifeboat to survive your own urine puddle.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4145 - 2015-12-09 05:50:09 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Not more risk. Some risk. At all.


They fundamentally do not have zero. Their risk is only lessened by your petulant refusal to actually play the game correctly and do something about them. You'd rather just whine about how your isk/hr goes down if you fit your Afktar differently, or play with other people.


Quote:

Currently you have no risk that you do not specifically choose.


It's not zero, but rewarding patience by allowing attacks of opportunity is absolutely, 100% intended design of the cloaking device. It's what repays the cloaked ship for being gimped in fitting and base stats, and unable to activate any of his highslot modules while doing it.

Cloaks right now are the most well balanced module concept in this game. You want to break that, to not only ruin their intended purpose but cripple the ships dependent on them as well, and you selfishly want to do this so you can farm anoms all day without having to do **** besides watch local.

And that will never happen. Unlike a cloaked player, who does not generate assets into the game world, the ratter does. He is subject to risk vs reward, and you don't get to make his life easier in the slightest degree.

TL;DR? Go back to highsec, or hurry up and quit already, since it's pretty obvious that you actually hate EVE Online.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4146 - 2015-12-09 05:55:03 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Removing local would negatively impact your gameplay by requiring you to hit Dscan once upon entering a system. Yep.. Huge downside there, compared to the eternal hammering of Dscan now required by your targets.


Or, like the average wormhole player, they could just put the slightest amount of effort into scouting their own gates.

But no, gotta use every account for that isk/hr, right Mike?


Quote:

You are a liar and a coward too afraid to face anyone when you don't hold every single advantage.


Such projection. You're the one asking for everything worthwhile about a type of module to be stripped away because you can't be asked to bait somebody properly. Or lift a finger in your own defense, no no, that's "unreasonable!".

My God are you an entitled bastard.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4147 - 2015-12-09 05:58:36 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:


Yes. You are entitled. You are over the moon about how someone did something when you were not even in the solar system. You wanted that to stop, when you arrived they stopped, and you are mad that as soon as you are gone they will do it some more.

You cannot defend AFK cloaking with the track you are on. Morrigan got closer with the "Think of the Titans!" argument, which you would have been all over if attacking it didn't interfere with your shiny ships too. Just as much as you feel it is your god given right to shoot a non-combat ship, it is the right of a system defender to shoot a ship in position to threaten those under his care. That's what we like to call conflict and resolution. In balanced gameplay that defender would be looking for you, you would be looking for a foolhardy non-com gambling on system defense, and things would work out according to the luck and skill of everyone involved---those that find the risk too much can go home assuming they aren't caught first.

Both sides aren't giving something up. Until cloaks become huntable all the risk and sacrifice comes from one side. I'm looking to see a balanced start point. Surely OA and intel changes will shake things up, but it's going to shake things up regardless, and that has nothing to do with balance right now. I see no reason to not support changes to create balance on an unbalanced system now, in favor of hoping changes coming at some unspecified day in the future make all this a non-issue.

You do, because you benefit from the situation as it stands.


WTFAYTA?

I don't care what you do in a system. I really don't. If you rat, mine, do PI, whatever I really don't give two *****.

Really.

However, I don't think local as intel should both provide an advanced warning and be invulnerable to attack.

I also think that AFK cloaking is bad game play.

I'd like to see both problems solved. Move intel into player deployed structures so that intel become part of securing your space....something you keep going on about. Second, when a cloaker shows up they can no longer go AFK for hours on end--i.e. you can secure your space against AFK cloakers.

I give up something....

You give up something....

But somehow I'm entitled?

Bottom line is I see you as full of ****. You want your early warning invulnerable intel system...but want cloak users to have more risk...and somehow that is balanced. Sorry, I find that to be a complete load of phoking bullshit.


And making gate cloaks keep you out of local would achieve the same goal without throwing the balance completely, hilariously into the hunters court.


It still leaves your intel system invulnerable to attack. Why should your intel be invulnerable. Shouldn't "securing one's space" be vulnerable to attack? If intel is part of that effort...then make in vulnerable.

Oh, and for the record, I want ratters to be able to rat just as much as they do now. I do not want less ratting. The growth rate of ISK is a debatable issue, but we don't have to deal with by reducing ratting. Same goes with mining...I want people to mine in NS...I want them to build, invent, and make NS less dependent on HS.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4148 - 2015-12-09 05:59:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Not more risk. Some risk. At all.


They fundamentally do not have zero. Their risk is only lessened by your petulant refusal to actually play the game correctly and do something about them. You'd rather just whine about how your isk/hr goes down if you fit your Afktar differently, or play with other people.


Really? Where is their risk sitting at that safe? You are too afraid to even allow for a mechanic that puts someone on grid looking for you. Not even uncloaking you, just on grid.

The thought of even the slightest chance of aggression being applied to you instead of your target completely paralyses you with gut wrenching fear, which is why you are such an ignorant troll. You are too scared to even begin to think straight and babble any moronic nonsense you can think of to keep the horrible carebears from shooting back.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Currently you have no risk that you do not specifically choose.


It's not zero, but rewarding patience by allowing attacks of opportunity is absolutely, 100% intended design of the cloaking device. It's what repays the cloaked ship for being gimped in fitting and base stats, and unable to activate any of his highslot modules while doing it.

Cloaks right now are the most well balanced module concept in this game. You want to break that, to not only ruin their intended purpose but cripple the ships dependent on them as well, and you selfishly want to do this so you can farm anoms all day without having to do **** besides watch local.

And that will never happen. Unlike a cloaked player, who does not generate assets into the game world, the ratter does. He is subject to risk vs reward, and you don't get to make his life easier in the slightest degree.

TL;DR? Go back to highsec, or hurry up and quit already, since it's pretty obvious that you actually hate EVE Online.


It's Zero, and there's no patience involved. You logged in with your 100% safety blanket and went to bed. Wow, you epic pvp god you.

I am sure a coward like yourself, too dim witted and slow to even risk trying to evade hostiles as they come in system, would find the 100% safety of the cloak balanced. After all, if someone even had the chance of catching you at an off moment it might result in the unintended explosionating of your ship. Can't have that.

The ratter generates no ISK while docked. What he did before he got there isn't anything you need to worry about. What he might do while you are there is--- but you took care of that with your 100% safety blanket.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4149 - 2015-12-09 06:01:55 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Bottom line is I see you as full of ****. You want your early warning invulnerable intel system...but want cloak users to have more risk...and somehow that is balanced. Sorry, I find that to be a complete load of phoking bullshit.



Not more risk. Some risk. At all.

Currently you have no risk that you do not specifically choose. We can go back to you telling me when it's OK that I expose myself to a known quantity of risk once a month or so and be completely safe the rest while maintaining effectiveness at what I choose to do.



I have risk if I engage you. I have risk as I move from system to system. I have very little risk if I sit at a safe cloaked...but then I pose little risk to you in that situation too...

I want more active play, less AFK play and I want to make your intel systems vulnerable. That is, I want to make "securing your space" mean something than just anchoring a few structures and then bat phoning people when they are attacked.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4150 - 2015-12-09 06:02:33 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Really? Where is their risk sitting at that safe?


Not much, but then you're the one who told me that staying awake counted as enough effort to justify the incredible safety that local offers, so even making a safe at all exceeds that by quite a bit.



Quote:

It's Zero, and there's no patience involved.


Wrong twice in one sentence.

Rant and froth some more, I'm still thirsty. Oh, and make sure that when they announce the "No more local in nullsec, can be obtained with a starbase module that goes away if you entosis it." dev blog, be sure to post there so I can get a few laughs.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4151 - 2015-12-09 06:03:56 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
At least, right and proper so long as it does not affect him in any way.


And of course all you can really do is just lie and spout personal attacks. That's all you've ever done.

Removing local would most certainly effect my gameplay negatively, but it would do so for all parties, which is about the only fair thing I've seen proposed thus far in this miserable tearful excuse for a thread.

Cry more.


Removing local would negatively impact your gameplay by requiring you to hit Dscan once upon entering a system. Yep.. Huge downside there, compared to the eternal hammering of Dscan now required by your targets.

You are a liar and a coward too afraid to face anyone when you don't hold every single advantage. Even the rats are too frightening for you, which is why you limit yourself to things that don't have guns in conditions where concord will protect the only actual part of your attack at risk of non-consensual enemy activity.

Keep it up and you will need a lifeboat to survive your own urine puddle.


What is truly hilarious in this is if Mike actually anchored an OA...he'd have the advantage over the pilot that did not have an OA.

As such I want to OA to be quite vulnerable to either being disabled, if not defended, or even subverted.


But nooooo....risk for the PvE pilot who picks a sub-standard fit relative to PvP....that's outrageous!!!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4152 - 2015-12-09 06:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
Teckos Pech wrote:

It still leaves your intel system invulnerable to attack. Why should your intel be invulnerable. Shouldn't "securing one's space" be vulnerable to attack? If intel is part of that effort...then make in vulnerable.

Oh, and for the record, I want ratters to be able to rat just as much as they do now. I do not want less ratting. The growth rate of ISK is a debatable issue, but we don't have to deal with by reducing ratting. Same goes with mining...I want people to mine in NS...I want them to build, invent, and make NS less dependent on HS.


Start that Intel thread, see where it goes. There is a lot more to consider than just OP cloaks.

I don't care if it is invulnerable or not. You keep attacking me on this, and it's not a point we have in contention. I just point out that it won't matter to the debate at hand, because the people you want to shoot will put it right back up, or if you have brought enough force that they can't the soft targets won't be in the field anyway.

Local in it's current form may very well go away, but it will be replaced by something similar in function because it's a needed feature of the game. It does not have to be invulnerable, but it does have to work reliably enough to be used. It's an absolutely dead end of debate on the topic of cloaks, because no matter what you do with it, it will either work, or the targets you want won't be in the field anyway.

Now, supporting a change so that it does not announce your presence in system until you have actually loaded would actually shift that balance to the one part of all of this that actually was unfair to the hunter. Even if the intel goes to something vulnerable, without a change of that nature, will leave you in the boat you are in now, but you are too dogmatic to see that. It's all or nothing, because nothing is hugely in your favor now.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4153 - 2015-12-09 06:04:51 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

But nooooo....risk for the PvE pilot who picks a sub-standard fit relative to PvP....that's outrageous!!!


No Teckos, it's "unreasonable!"

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4154 - 2015-12-09 06:09:06 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

Start that Intel thread, see where it goes. There is a lot more to consider than just OP cloaks.


This is the intel thread.

This thread is to discuss everything to do with afk cloaking. Afk cloaking ONLY exists because of local. It is fully on topic.

Quote:

Local in it's current form may very well go away, but it will be replaced by something similar in function because it's a needed feature of the game.


No, it is not. Once again, although I know you've never been in one because looking at a hole gives you the willies, but wormholes do perfectly well without it. Only caveat though, they actually have to play the game, which I'm sure is "unreasonable!" to you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4155 - 2015-12-09 06:09:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Rant and froth some more, I'm still thirsty. Oh, and make sure that when they announce the "No more local in nullsec, can be obtained with a starbase module that goes away if you entosis it." dev blog, be sure to post there so I can get a few laughs.


Oh I am so waiting for this!!!

Even if the OA allows for scanning cloaks, if I can sneak in and kill/subvert the intel system....wooot! An all new meta to play with.

PIlots who can are good at using cloaked ships to get into enemy space will become the tip of the spear...first on the battlefield...last off the battlefield...yaaa baby! The main reason I trained recons all those years ago.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4156 - 2015-12-09 06:10:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

But nooooo....risk for the PvE pilot who picks a sub-standard fit relative to PvP....that's outrageous!!!


No Teckos, it's "unreasonable!"



Ahh, yes. Apologies for my gross oversight. Lol

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4157 - 2015-12-09 06:12:44 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Rant and froth some more, I'm still thirsty. Oh, and make sure that when they announce the "No more local in nullsec, can be obtained with a starbase module that goes away if you entosis it." dev blog, be sure to post there so I can get a few laughs.


Oh I am so waiting for this!!!

Even if the OA allows for scanning cloaks, if I can sneak in and kill/subvert the intel system....wooot! An all new meta to play with.

PIlots who can are good at using cloaked ships to get into enemy space will become the tip of the spear...first on the battlefield...last off the battlefield...yaaa baby! The main reason I trained recons all those years ago.



What's hilarious about this is that Karrous will cry and cry some more because local was put back. It was not too many posts ago he was advocating removing local completely because Dscan already exists.RollRollRoll
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4158 - 2015-12-09 06:13:05 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

It still leaves your intel system invulnerable to attack. Why should your intel be invulnerable. Shouldn't "securing one's space" be vulnerable to attack? If intel is part of that effort...then make in vulnerable.

Oh, and for the record, I want ratters to be able to rat just as much as they do now. I do not want less ratting. The growth rate of ISK is a debatable issue, but we don't have to deal with by reducing ratting. Same goes with mining...I want people to mine in NS...I want them to build, invent, and make NS less dependent on HS.


Start that Intel thread, see where it goes. There is a lot more to consider than just OP cloaks.

I don't care if it is invulnerable or not. You keep attacking me on this, and it's not a point we have in contention. I just point out that it won't matter to the debate at hand, because the people you want to shoot will put it right back up, or if you have brought enough force that they can't the soft targets won't be in the field anyway.

Local in it's current form may very well go away, but it will be replaced by something similar in function because it's a needed feature of the game. It does not have to be invulnerable, but it does have to work reliably enough to be used. It's an absolutely dead end of debate on the topic of cloaks, because no matter what you do with it, it will either work, or the targets you want won't be in the field anyway.

Now, supporting a change so that it does not announce your presence in system until you have actually loaded would actually shift that balance to the one part of all of this that actually was unfair to the hunter. Even if the intel goes to something vulnerable, without a change of that nature, will leave you in the boat you are in now, but you are too dogmatic to see that. It's all or nothing, because nothing is hugely in your favor now.


Okay then Mike....

If "local' moves into the OA, and it becomes vulnerable.

AND...the OA allowed for scanning cloaks....would you be at least indifferent. Not necessarily happy or angry, just that you'd see it as a reasonable....compromise? Or at least the beginnings of a compromise?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4159 - 2015-12-09 06:15:57 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

What's hilarious about this is that Karrous will cry and cry some more because local was put back. It was not too many posts ago he was advocating removing local completely because Dscan already exists.RollRollRoll


Why would I cry about them implementing one of my own ideas?

Are you high right now? Have you smoked the reefer, son?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4160 - 2015-12-09 06:16:35 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Rant and froth some more, I'm still thirsty. Oh, and make sure that when they announce the "No more local in nullsec, can be obtained with a starbase module that goes away if you entosis it." dev blog, be sure to post there so I can get a few laughs.


Oh I am so waiting for this!!!

Even if the OA allows for scanning cloaks, if I can sneak in and kill/subvert the intel system....wooot! An all new meta to play with.

PIlots who can are good at using cloaked ships to get into enemy space will become the tip of the spear...first on the battlefield...last off the battlefield...yaaa baby! The main reason I trained recons all those years ago.



What's hilarious about this is that Karrous will cry and cry some more because local was put back. It was not too many posts ago he was advocating removing local completely because Dscan already exists.RollRollRoll


Not put back...but made vulnerable.

I'd love to be the guy that spends the time to sneak into a system and then disable key intel systems to help pave the way for an invasion. Set up "dead systems" for ganking. Or even more awesome, subverting the intel system to show hostiles as blue!


Oh the fun that could be had...and with active ATK players, nore more AFK "players".

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online