Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I see many suggestions regarding the removal of attribute implants because people are afraid to be bubbled in pvp. Given how much of an isk sink these are and the amount they are traded this seems to be a the tail wagging the dog.

This would allow null sec pilots to actually use (and risk) some of the interesting implants that low sec players can use. Without the use of implants the options for null sec pilots are a bit limited.

We already have interceptors that are immune to bubbles and that has worked out well. I think pods should also be immune to bubbles.

If you're actively piloting the pod, not autopiloting, then bubbles are the only way to catch pods. Why remove the only way to catch them?

I think we crossed that bridge with interceptors.

Smart bombs can catch pods easier than they can catch interceptors.

Lag also causes the loss of pods, but beyond that there are many mistakes people can make even in low sec that cause the loss of pods.

But to answer your question the reason I would like pods immune to bubbles is because allowing implants in null sec allows more depth in fitting for pvp.



Thanks for lettering your points.

A. They really don't risk them unless they are crazy rich. That's because it is pretty stupid right now to use them in null sec. You basically concede this in point C.

B. There are some seperate issues. Interdictors and bubbles have plenty of uses beyond killing pods. Killing bubbled pods is not really something that involves skill anyway. But whether they are balanced against t3s is really a seperate issue.

C. See you just agreed that you should make a jump clone to save your nice implants. That is you agree you shouldn't use nice implants in null sec. This makes the fitting choices in null sec fairly limited.

D. I agree with that. But I would like to point out the problem hidden in your statement. You say being in +3s for 24 hours isn't really changing anything. So your assuming your will then jump back to another pod after the 24 hours. At that point you can't pvp in null sec. The whole thing with bubbles and pods just makes null sec less accessible and less fun for pvp.

E. I would like to see the data on this. I wouldn't be surprised that people lose more value in implants in low sec than they do in null sec. I think if they changed this we would see many more implants in null sec and likely it would help the implant market because people would still lose them to smart bombs, stealth bomber bombs, lag, and mistakes.

I'm fairly poor - between isk and assets, not far above 15b. I still fly a 1.5b isk pod in null on my main, Been living in null about two months, yet to be podded. The idea that bubbles prevent using implants is complete bull; look at zkb. Just b/c you are butthurt about losing your pod/not being able to lose one and replace it is no reason to make a giant game mechanics change.

Which is really saying something considering we have Yige posting as well.

There is also smartbombs but the use of smartbombs is very niche.

So yeah while you are not right I certainly do agree with your point.

CCP is sadly accommodating this view of a no loss world. For example they removed having to pay for pods. Now there is a push to eliminate attribute implants. This push is not surprisingly from null sec players. This is indeed removing the actual losses from the game and dumbing it down. I would prefer CCP took a different route.

People say null sec players already lose expensive pods. But I would like to see the statistics. What is the average value of a pod lost in null sec and what is the average value of a pod lost in low? I would also like to compare the total value lost in pods in null sec per system or per character in null compared to low sec. And different variations along those lines.

We see arguments that contradict each other in support of keeping the mechanic where bubbles hold pods. On the one hand people say don't be stupid and have a jump clone with your expensive pod. On the other hand people say they fly their expensive pods in null sec and those who don't are just overly fearful. Clearly there is disagreement on whether either of these contradictory views is correct.

As far as the guy who flys in null sec and never lost a pod that could be. I mean if you are very risk adverse you can no doubt do that. But for the main line pvpers this is recommended.


As for the guy who says this is the worst idea. It's bad posts like that, which make eve-o forums horrible. Why not try to think it through a bit and see what would be so bad.




2 months isn't that long. Maybe read the reasons all these null sec groups who have been in null sec longer want to do away with attribute implants. That is indeed eliminating consequences from the game.

What are you looking at in zkill? Just that some people die with expensive pods sometime in null sec? Yeah no doubt. Is there any sort of real statistical data that would give the average pod value in low versus null? I think you may find the implant industry would actually do better if ccp removed this effect from bubbles. But I can't say for sure.

And no I am not butthurt about losing my pod and yes my main has been in null sec for much longer than you have.

Feel free to research all my pod losses. I have no regrets!

There is some risk smart bombs, stealth bomber bombs, lag and, of course, mistakes. The stealth bombers would still make it so there is more risk in null than low sec. And people do still lose pods in low sec for the other three reasons.

Of course isk is part of the game. Expensive implants cost about a plex. The reasons new bros shouldn't fly with them - even in low sec - is not because of the cost. But because of mistakes. That is how it should be. The low sec balance is IMO pretty decent.


Lots of pvpers are moving to low sec or have been there for a while. IMO the skill implants make fitting more interesting. I would like the game to be more interesting that is why I think bubbles killing pods is a bad mechanic.



such over-generalizations are not really helpful.




Why do you think I don't view things like this? I am not saying I think pods should never be lost. I am saying that for the vast majority of players bubbles holding pods means they do not fit expensive implants - myself included. This takes away many fitting options. The risk reward is out of wack. The risk of losing expensive pods due to bubbles in low sec means the vast majority of players won't use them there.

Again this is just my opinion. But then again if you want to keep risk in the game then I hope you argue against removing attribute implants and ask that pods costs return. But in the meantime ccp is in fact removing consequences from the game all because of bubbles. IMO this is the wrong approach.

I do support removing attribute implants, but I do not support your idea. Why? Because I support removing attribute implants because they do not give a direct and tangible benefit to your ship while you are currently using it. The risk analysis for attribute implants is stay docked and benefit from the implants at zero risk or undock and get the same benefit while risking the implants.

On the other hand, I am all in favor of more implants that give a direct and tangible benefit while you are undocked. And I want those implants to be at real risk. If I choose to fly with Snakes or Slaves, my ship is better, but I risk an expensive asset to gain that immediate advantage.

Once you go to the point you are at, where pods only get caught due to smart bombs, lag, glitches, or slow reflexes, you might as well just get rid of pod death. And I do not think anyone wants that.