Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The launcher IS intended for their size. It just shoots smaller ammo.

If you're going to ask that, ask yourself what the missile equivalent to moving from 250mm rails to 200mm rails is.

My solution is to increase the total reload time by a lot, so that their sustained DPS is no higher than a light missile launcher. After nerfing them into oblivion, their utility could be improved by having them reload in smaller cycles, say, 1 missile at a time, so you can stop loading and start shooting if you don't want to wait for the whole timer. And then do the same with the RHML.


When I tell people that RLMLs and RHMLs are overpowered, they will try to quote me numbers to suggest that they aren't, but they see things only in terms of sustained DPS comparisons with short-range missiles while ignoring way better damage application, longer range, lower fitting cost, and the fact that a lot of battles are over after only a few seconds. I really don't think that the huge nerfs I suggest for RLMLs and RHMLs will make people stop using full racks of them on missile ships, but even if it does, that's probably a good thing. They should be an auxiliary weapon system that you fit on utility high slots on a turret ship.

RLMLs used to be needed because unlike turrets, missiles couldn't exploit ship velocities to force full damage application on small hulls (zero transversal in the case of turrets).

However, now, with all the new missile "tracking" enhancers and computers, even a Typhoon can apply max damage to a frigate with RHMLs (or whatever they are).

Webs and painters are hardly unavailable.

It's worth asking whether the existence of RLMLs and it's larger counterparts is justified, seeing as, unlike turrets, missiles can't really miss unless outside of range.

Sadly, those mods are largely inferior to painters so not a lot has moved on that space.

I'd like to see that typhoon though, bet you could sneeze at it and kill it.



They help turrets just as much.



Missiles can and do miss at the edge of range (and "edge" is subjective, you're talking kms of difference here). So long as we're looking at differences then we should consider that missiles can be outrun, are unable to be improved via manual piloting, have ewar against them too, can be destroyed mid flight, have diminished DPS to account for the "never miss" feature.




Do we really need another thread on how bad medium and large missiles are?

I genuinely cannot remember the last time I fired a non-light missile in anger, it certainly wasn't recently, probably nearly a year.

There are plenty of ways for big ships to kill frigates, and it isn't supposed to be easy.

The key to the value of RLML is the rapid part. It's by far the closest to turret damage as far as time to target. That's why I use them. No misses and no outrunning them. The only worry is surviving the reload.

I think it's nice that folks shooting missiles have a valid pvp option. Hams and heavies are fine. They work like missiles. RLML are fine too, they are little missiles on steroids.

Before you undock you make your choice. RLML are great against frigs and other cruisers, but not so good against BC and BS. If it's a generic roam or ship fit, the RLML make sense because of all the risk averse kiting frigatery that is currently going on. Let's be honest, if there weren't RLML then frigates would be kiting and dominating everything - and the frigate jockeys would be all 'everything is fine and working as intended' and all the other pilots would be all 'boo hoo frigates are teh suxors'.

The dram had it's time. The ASB fits had their time. The T3 dessy is having it's time. Then new T2 dessies will probably have a good run also. The only counter that currently exists to keep this from being Dessies Online is probably the RLML. It's not a plague, it's the vaccine keeping the plague in check. It's only natural that the virus (frigatry jocks) are upset about it.

Overall everything looks OK to me.

So having frigates not die instantly equals frigates are dominating everything? Frigates have never dominated anything, in fact they're constantly so severely underpowered as to barely be able to perform their main roles. But everyone keeps whining that some frigate got away without dying and so frigates need to be nerfed. Seriously, if you're not in a frigate, and a frigate escapes you, that is working as intended.

Heavy missiles are only good on BS sized ships. On cruisers theyre still pretty terrible. Low dps, comparable alpha to HAMs and RLML. Not to mention horrible application which is hard to compensate for on a cruiser, but much easier on a BC or BS. Ive used RHML phoons and fleet phoons. When setup for application they can apply quite well to t3ds and frigs. Sport over 100k EHP in buffer fit or about a 1k dps dual rep tank. More than adequate to nuke a frig gang and moonwalk outta there.

The only BCs that can utilize RLML are the prophecy (drone bonused, RLML are just extra dps) and navy drake (8 unbonused launchers and 25% velocity bonus). All the others will gimp themselves heavily.

RLML are prevalent because CCP keeps pumping up frigs and dessies. Giving them abilities that used to be exclusive to BCs and BS (MJD).

We have:
x4 T3Ds
x4 t2 logi frigs
x4 new navy frigs
x1 new mining frig
x4 command destroyers

13 of those released today. The t3ds released during the past 5-12 months. If you dont want to see more RLML ships then CCP needs to start introducing more ships that arent frigates and destroyers. Not our fault that everyone is flying frigs and dessies, we are going to fit what best counters what we expect to fight.

An anti-frigate weapon that kills frigates too well?! The madness.

The orthrus is OP and absolutely absurd at what it can do. It literally should have its damage bonus apply to only heavies and HAMs. But they would make all the lowsec linked try-hards cry a river. RLML orthrus does not equal all RLML ships being OP.

You have that backwards.

More ships should be bonused downwards and have broader reaching damage bonuses, not less. Versatility is variety, and variety is the spice of life.

And besides, if ship bonuses applied to that scale of weapons and downward, it might make battleships worthwhile even if they never fix the warp speed nerf.

RLML are fine. The only RLML ship that's problematic is the Orthrus, largely because of what it becomes when linked. No other RLML ship can kill a properly fit buffer cruiser before hitting the reload wall. 35 second reload is a huge downside. RLML do what they're intended to do and are kept in line by the massive reload time and relatively low DPS. If you are trying to fight an RLML ship with paper ships, you deserve your fate. They're a free kill for anything with a 1600 plate or a few LSE's.

Of all the things to complain about...this is like taking a frigate gang against a Stabber fleet issue and complaining when you all die horribly. Or taking an active tanked blaster or laser ship against a curse.