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Dev blog: Grid Sizes & You

First post
Author
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-12-08 19:25:02 UTC
Is this part of today's 1.11gb update? (Hope folks had time to plan for the download as not all of EVE's players have the best choices for internet connections)

Has this been mass tested? "What could go wrong?" is often answered very harshly by reality, so testing, testing, testing is a good mitigator.
Escobar Sr
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#22 - 2015-12-08 20:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Escobar Sr
After today's patch, stumbled upon a funny situation. Was 11000 KM away from the next gate. On the next gate, 3 NPC Frigates + 2 NPC Battleships. Hit Align, and somehow, the rats were able to yellow box me at 11000 KM. Tried to Cloak up, "You cannot Cloak due to being targeted by an enemy!". How can you say 7800 KM yet, you can see rats at 11000 KM. Feels a bit petty I didn't take a screenshot. Probably, in some cases, 7800 km = 11000 km... I don't know... anymore...
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-12-08 20:34:48 UTC
Escobar Sr wrote:
After today's patch, stumbled upon a funny situation. Was 11000 KM away from the next gate. On the next gate, 3 NPC Frigates + 2 NPC Battleships. Hit Align, and somehow, the rats were able to yellow box me at 11000 KM. Tried to Cloak up, "You cannot Cloak due to being targeted by an enemy!". How can you say 7800 KM yet, you can see rats at 11000 KM. Feels a bit petty I didn't take a screenshot. Probably, in some cases, 7800 km = 11000 km... I don't know... anymore...





Like I mentioned, testing, testing, testing... locked at 11000km? Not 11km, but 11 thousand km. Wow.
Algathas
Swamp Panthers
SONS of BANE
#24 - 2015-12-08 20:42:53 UTC
This is great news. Ever since the changes were made to warp speed back in the day, Interceptors sometimes would land so fast that they would simply appear out of nowhere for a moment before jumping through the gate. Now we will finally get to see them land again.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#25 - 2015-12-08 21:15:42 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
JonnyPew wrote:
My precious off-grid instant undock bookmarks! They're ruined! Sad


They are still instant undock... just not offgrid. Get in the dramiel/ceptor and follow along the line to get offgrid one.

I thought I had done that. At Jita, mine was 20,000 km away.

This morning, it was on-grid.

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Escobar Sr
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#26 - 2015-12-08 21:31:17 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
Escobar Sr wrote:
After today's patch, stumbled upon a funny situation. Was 11000 KM away from the next gate. On the next gate, 3 NPC Frigates + 2 NPC Battleships. Hit Align, and somehow, the rats were able to yellow box me at 11000 KM. Tried to Cloak up, "You cannot Cloak due to being targeted by an enemy!". How can you say 7800 KM yet, you can see rats at 11000 KM. Feels a bit petty I didn't take a screenshot. Probably, in some cases, 7800 km = 11000 km... I don't know... anymore...





Like I mentioned, testing, testing, testing... locked at 11000km? Not 11km, but 11 thousand km. Wow.



I swear to God, I was jumping through some systems, gate to gate, and between 2 systems, the gates are literary 11000 km + some kms. I have an awkward way of scanning, in the systems controlled by my Corp or empty systems. I align towards the gate I want to pass through, launch probes and after the launcher is reloaded, I cloak up, in case, you know, people jump in. There were 3 Sansha's Butcher, frigate size ships + 2 Battleships, 11000km away, and my CovOps cloaking device said "You're not allowed to cloak" because the rats were yellowboxing me... testing, testing, testing what?!? Would've been awesome for BSs to hit me 11000km away :))) that would've been, indeed, something to talk about...
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#27 - 2015-12-08 23:31:02 UTC
Volumetrically speaking, increasing the grid edge size from 250 km to 8000 km gets you a grid that's 32,768 times the size of the original.
SFX Bladerunner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2015-12-09 00:32:33 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Volumetrically speaking, increasing the grid edge size from 250 km to 8000 km gets you a grid that's 32,768 times the size of the original.


Thanks for the info, I am sure nobody at CCP has ever seen the formula to calculate volume in a sphere.. you know, because that has nothing to do with a game about spaceships and all that.Blink
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#29 - 2015-12-09 01:11:32 UTC
SFX Bladerunner wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Volumetrically speaking, increasing the grid edge size from 250 km to 8000 km gets you a grid that's 32,768 times the size of the original.


Thanks for the info, I am sure nobody at CCP has ever seen the formula to calculate volume in a sphere.. you know, because that has nothing to do with a game about spaceships and all that.Blink

It's just an interesting technical point. The grids aren't 32 times larger, they're 32*32*32 times larger.
Also they're not spheres.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-12-09 03:05:37 UTC
Escobar Sr wrote:
After today's patch, stumbled upon a funny situation. Was 11000 KM away from the next gate. On the next gate, 3 NPC Frigates + 2 NPC Battleships. Hit Align, and somehow, the rats were able to yellow box me at 11000 KM. Tried to Cloak up, "You cannot Cloak due to being targeted by an enemy!". How can you say 7800 KM yet, you can see rats at 11000 KM. Feels a bit petty I didn't take a screenshot. Probably, in some cases, 7800 km = 11000 km... I don't know... anymore...

Maybe I'm confused but:

CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Some Q&A...

Actually how big is the grid?
Grids are composed of multiple boxes, each box being 7864320m x 7864320m x 7864320m. In some cases you can have viewing distances above 20,000km.

Does this affect fleet warp?
Yes, anyone inside these larger grids will be affected by fleet warp.

Does this affect drag bubbles?
Yes you can now drag bubble people further away within the larger grids.


Seems to suggest that the box size is NOT the grid size. Rather the grid size will be a multiple of the box size. Is that right?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#31 - 2015-12-09 05:20:37 UTC
This change is interesting. Not only drag bubbles....which ARE going to be harder to line up. But stop bubbles. You just made ganking dudes in sight of their POS that much easier.

However, I do suggest you look at the acceleration and deceleration from warp for the larger ships. Like...it's about 20 seconds now for a battleship to come to a stop after entering grid. that means that even if you aren't on d-scan to see them hitting grid, everything has a chance of escaping them before they sludge to a stop and can begin locking.

Which, just in case you were aware, is really stupidly slow for such a large ship. Just sayin', there's plenty of room on a BS to chuck decent sensors on it so it doesn't sit around uselessly for 15 seconds.

I think you have also, by default, done a number on fleet warps. This is what you were wanting, but of course you wanted to just remove it. Now you've got the problem for ccompulsive fleet warpers that all their guys can be on a gigantic grid and being sucked along with the FC's commands. This will be chaos, and great to watch unfold. So, GG fr that, I'm in favour.

Also adding my voice to the removal of lock range restrictions. 250km is now literally nothing.


Vincent Athena wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
JonnyPew wrote:
My precious off-grid instant undock bookmarks! They're ruined! Sad


They are still instant undock... just not offgrid. Get in the dramiel/ceptor and follow along the line to get offgrid one.

I thought I had done that. At Jita, mine was 20,000 km away.

This morning, it was on-grid.


Yeah, because someone else's off-grid was 15,000 away and they were there, and stretched the grid out more.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-12-09 05:26:08 UTC
I like the change, also voting for removing the 250km hard lock limit.

There is no Bob.

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Kuetlzelcoatl
#33 - 2015-12-09 09:34:24 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
JonnyPew wrote:
My precious off-grid instant undock bookmarks! They're ruined! Sad


They are still instant undock... just not offgrid. Get in the dramiel/ceptor and follow along the line to get offgrid one.

I thought I had done that. At Jita, mine was 20,000 km away.

This morning, it was on-grid.



Grid can grow a lot when you have a lot of ships consistently warping and slow boating in the same direction. At one point I saw grid at 80,000 km from Jita 4-4 in the undock direction.

In the past you could have pieces of grid "tear off" and progress along when multiple ships are relatively close going in the same direction. This seemed to be the case in Jita yesterday when grid seemed to go to nearly 200,000 km at one point, but collapsed back to about 80,000 km after my char left grid at that extreme range. I had to warp back to much closer BMs to find Jita 4-4 grid again. I'm not sure if it was torn grid or hugely expanded grid that significantly resized itself.

It would be interesting to know if the Developers have tools to visualize the grid structure around a specific object in real time. It could be very enlightening to see the grid structure expanding, contracting, and tearing in real time while players go about their business.

In the past I've been able to tear off a piece of grid on Sisi then compress it back inline to create a 5km wide slice of off grid between the main grid and torn piece. Though it was hard for me to tell if that was a truly thin slice of pocket grid or just the extreme corner of a much larger piece.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2015-12-09 09:53:27 UTC
Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:
It would be interesting to know if the Developers have tools to visualize the grid structure around a specific object in real time. It could be very enlightening to see the grid structure expanding, contracting, and tearing in real time while players go about their business.


Yes we do, although it is not pretty Bear

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Orions Lord
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2015-12-09 09:59:28 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
SFX Bladerunner wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Volumetrically speaking, increasing the grid edge size from 250 km to 8000 km gets you a grid that's 32,768 times the size of the original.


Thanks for the info, I am sure nobody at CCP has ever seen the formula to calculate volume in a sphere.. you know, because that has nothing to do with a game about spaceships and all that.Blink

It's just an interesting technical point. The grids aren't 32 times larger, they're 32*32*32 times larger.
Also they're not spheres.


What shape is it then? And what is the minimum distance of this shape is that known?
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#36 - 2015-12-09 10:15:21 UTC
This is an amazing change for immersion. The sandbox grows :)

Keep up the great work!

Any colour you like.

Kuetlzelcoatl
#37 - 2015-12-09 10:48:57 UTC
Orions Lord wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
SFX Bladerunner wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Volumetrically speaking, increasing the grid edge size from 250 km to 8000 km gets you a grid that's 32,768 times the size of the original.


Thanks for the info, I am sure nobody at CCP has ever seen the formula to calculate volume in a sphere.. you know, because that has nothing to do with a game about spaceships and all that.Blink

It's just an interesting technical point. The grids aren't 32 times larger, they're 32*32*32 times larger.
Also they're not spheres.


What shape is it then? And what is the minimum distance of this shape is that known?



My experience points to a Rectangular Cuboid, but it would be nice for a Dev to confirm. That would be the simplest grid shape.




Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#38 - 2015-12-09 12:54:15 UTC
The game is designed with Cartesian coordinates, so yeah it's probably a cube or similar.
Escobar Sr
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#39 - 2015-12-09 13:40:54 UTC
Seems like I'm not the only one having issues with Rats aggro-ing from unreal distances: Post 125
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
#40 - 2015-12-09 16:29:34 UTC
Due to significantly increased grid size (and upcoming structures) do you consider adding additional warping distances - for example 'warp at 250' and 'warp at 500'?
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