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MTU's with defensive capabilities.

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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#41 - 2015-12-08 17:55:15 UTC
I have removed an off-topic/troll post and all of those that quoted it. Please remember to stay civil and on-topic in threads.

Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#42 - 2015-12-08 17:55:16 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Lyra Gerie wrote:
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Lyra Gerie wrote:

If you find 20 dollars on the street do you stick around for 15 minutes to see if someone tries to pick it up?

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. If you didn't want someone to find your 20 dollars and take it, you probably should have kept it in your pocket.


And what if you find somebody's car on the street?



Are you seriously naive enough to think that no one has stolen a car before and gotten away with it? Also do you think your car would be street legal with defensive weapons to prevent it from being carjacked?


Yes, in South Africa in the early 90's...



Ah yes the flaming bbq grill car. That was pretty crazy.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-12-08 18:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ageanal Olerie
Self deleted since ISD deleted troll post.

P
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#44 - 2015-12-08 18:13:26 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Self deleted since ISD deleted troll post.

P



So...you acknowledge that your OP was merely trolling? Idea

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-12-08 18:15:12 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I like the idea assuming the owner of the MTU gets an agression timer as soon as the MTU shoots at me. As long as the owner gets a timer - this has content written all over it.


Well that would have content for griefers (and their many defenders) written all over it.

I'd bet that 95% of all those out there attacking MTUs are not looking for a worthy fight. They're either looking to grief others or a quick and easy pay day.

They aren't looking for or expecting any risk.

The risk vs. reward of attacking these things is extremely lopsided. Very low risk. Very high reward of either sociopathic enjoyment, or potentially high loot drop payoff.

The moment someone suggests increasing the risk somewhat, the typical griefers and their defenders come out of the woodwork to object, thereby highlighting the very fact that they do NOT want this behavior to entail anymore risk to themselves, and thus confirming the diagnosis of griefers and bullies.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#46 - 2015-12-08 18:18:11 UTC
Just a quick point - we'll all take you far more seriously if you would desist in labelling people who are merely playing the game as it was intended as 'griefers'.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-12-08 18:31:52 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Just a quick point - we'll all take you far more seriously if you would desist in labelling people who are merely playing the game as it was intended as 'griefers'.



It may or may not be intended game play, not everything CCP puts into the game has intended results.

At any rate, what else would you call those who are *not* actually looking for a challenge, who are not looking for a fair fight, or not even looking for PvP combat, but are just looking for a quick and easy kill and payoff, while knowing that there is an actual player, unable to mount a defense against them, behind that thing they are destroying?

At the very least, you would think that blowing up someone's deployable would generate a kill right. And those who *actually* wanted to do anything more than griefing (or sociopathic opportunism where they don't even consider other people) would be all on board with destroying these objects generating a kill right against them.

Iain Cariaba
#48 - 2015-12-08 18:32:16 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Just a quick point - we'll all take you far more seriously if you would desist in labelling people who are merely playing the game as it was intended as 'griefers'.

He only calls them 'griefers' because he lacks sufficient maturity to not place considerable emotional attachment to imaginary objects in a game. The simple fact that losing a few pixels, ones, and zeros can actually cause him to 'grieve' is the real problem he should be addressing, not his dislike of how a particular segment of a PvP based sandbox MMO decides to play the game.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#49 - 2015-12-08 19:08:14 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
Just a quick point - we'll all take you far more seriously if you would desist in labelling people who are merely playing the game as it was intended as 'griefers'.

He only calls them 'griefers' because he lacks sufficient maturity to not place considerable emotional attachment to imaginary objects in a game. The simple fact that losing a few pixels, ones, and zeros can actually cause him to 'grieve' is the real problem he should be addressing, not his dislike of how a particular segment of a PvP based sandbox MMO decides to play the game.



Oh, absolutely - I just thought, 'one more try'... Big smile



Quote:
It may or may not be intended game play, not everything CCP puts into the game has intended results.

At any rate, what else would you call those who are *not* actually looking for a challenge, who are not looking for a fair fight, or not even looking for PvP combat, but are just looking for a quick and easy kill and payoff, while knowing that there is an actual player, unable to mount a defense against them, behind that thing they are destroying?

At the very least, you would think that blowing up someone's deployable would generate a kill right. And those who *actually* wanted to do anything more than griefing (or sociopathic opportunism where they don't even consider other people) would be all on board with destroying these objects generating a kill right against them.



The basic tenet of Player-versus-player interaction of EVE is most definitely CCP's primary focus - why would they advertise it as a 'cold, harsh, universe' otherwise?

I would call those people players - what's stopping the mission runner or whoever docking and jumping into a PVP fitted ship if someone else goes suspect on them? Absolutely nothing, that's what, except a crushing risk-aversion and unwillingness to lose space pixels.

I think you're beginning to take these things quite personally if you're throwing around words like 'sociopathic' to describe sanctioned player actions (let's be honest, if CCP thought killing MTUs to get a suspect flag was somehow 'griefing', as you put it, they would've classed it as a forbidden action long ago...honestly, and I'm not trying to wind you up here, what happened to prompt all of this? Something has obviously occurred to put you along this path, and it would be interesting to see the kill if indeed something like that happened.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#50 - 2015-12-08 19:10:10 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I like the idea assuming the owner of the MTU gets an agression timer as soon as the MTU shoots at me. As long as the owner gets a timer - this has content written all over it.


Well that would have content for griefers (and their many defenders) written all over it.

I'd bet that 95% of all those out there attacking MTUs are not looking for a worthy fight. They're either looking to grief others or a quick and easy pay day.

They aren't looking for or expecting any risk.

The risk vs. reward of attacking these things is extremely lopsided. Very low risk. Very high reward of either sociopathic enjoyment, or potentially high loot drop payoff.

The moment someone suggests increasing the risk somewhat, the typical griefers and their defenders come out of the woodwork to object, thereby highlighting the very fact that they do NOT want this behavior to entail anymore risk to themselves, and thus confirming the diagnosis of griefers and bullies.







TBH I think your idea is silly. You either give it a CONCORD style death ray of no escape, or don't bother. 3 days after skynet.... er your auto defense tractormadoodle goes live, it will be disected and counterable. Any sociopath not discussing it in the sociopath chat channel will only need to google 'eve tractor beam' and a how to will pop up explaining in detail how to go about their business by overcoming the auto defense.

Nothing "new" in this game survives a few days before a 'how to' is published to get through it easily.

On a side note. I'm just curious. You've labelled me a sociopath - is it OK if I refer to you as self indulgent whiney beetch from here on out? I figure one miguided label is as good as another. Are we cool with that?


TL/DR ...... sigh .......
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-12-08 19:43:58 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:

I think you're beginning to take these things quite personally if you're throwing around words like 'sociopathic' to describe sanctioned player actions (let's be honest, if CCP thought killing MTUs to get a suspect flag was somehow 'griefing', as you put it, they would've classed it as a forbidden action long ago...honestly, and I'm not trying to wind you up here, what happened to prompt all of this? Something has obviously occurred to put you along this path, and it would be interesting to see the kill if indeed something like that happened.



It's not the 'space pixels'. It's the time, effort, and inconvenience. I've only lost one MTU that cost me only 6.5 million ISK and about 300k in loot, of which the attacker got a measly 10k.

I never leave these things on the field. I was in a very remote system, and this was the first time I'd ever left one on the field, and I did so accidentally. I was gone all of under 5 minutes while docked up, and remarkably for the 1st time I left an MTU out, in a nearly abandoned system, and when I returned the MTU was gone.

Upon checking the kill mail I noticed that the guy who did it had a killboard list full of MTU kills. And virtually no PvP fights, kills or losses. He destroys them and gets out ASAP. And almost all the loot drops have been piddly. So tell me, what's he getting out of it?

I think these people need to have a bit more risk and challenge in their activity. Not for the 'space pixels' but for the aggravation and headache of having to replace it and the lost time and effort.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-12-08 19:57:11 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:


TBH I think your idea is silly. You either give it a CONCORD style death ray of no escape, or don't bother. 3 days after skynet.... er your auto defense tractormadoodle goes live, it will be disected and counterable. Any sociopath not discussing it in the sociopath chat channel will only need to google 'eve tractor beam' and a how to will pop up explaining in detail how to go about their business by overcoming the auto defense.

Nothing "new" in this game survives a few days before a 'how to' is published to get through it easily.

On a side note. I'm just curious. You've labelled me a sociopath - is it OK if I refer to you as self indulgent whiney beetch from here on out? I figure one miguided label is as good as another. Are we cool with that?


TL/DR ...... sigh .......


Who cares if they can figure out how to overcome the defenses. The point is to make the activity more difficult and more risky.

The longer it takes to destroy, the more it softens them up, the longer it holds them down, the sooner it alerts its owner to an attack, the more risk there will be associated with trying to blow up someone's deployable.

Did I call *YOU* a sociopath? You must think you fit the bill if you believe so. But that depends on what you're getting out of your activities. Do you gain enjoyment (or any other psychological 'high') out of causing trouble, aggravation, difficulty, pain, suffering, or misery to others? (FYI, my response was simple aggravation). Do you lack empathy? Do you make excuses for your behavior, like "This is what CCP wants me to do." "I'm helping society if I kill this homeless bum on the street." If so, you very well may be a sociopath.
Iain Cariaba
#53 - 2015-12-08 20:00:34 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:

I think you're beginning to take these things quite personally if you're throwing around words like 'sociopathic' to describe sanctioned player actions (let's be honest, if CCP thought killing MTUs to get a suspect flag was somehow 'griefing', as you put it, they would've classed it as a forbidden action long ago...honestly, and I'm not trying to wind you up here, what happened to prompt all of this? Something has obviously occurred to put you along this path, and it would be interesting to see the kill if indeed something like that happened.



It's not the 'space pixels'. It's the time, effort, and inconvenience. I've only lost one MTU that cost me only 6.5 million ISK and about 300k in loot, of which the attacker got a measly 10k.

I never leave these things on the field. I was in a very remote system, and this was the first time I'd ever left one on the field, and I did so accidentally. I was gone all of under 5 minutes while docked up, and remarkably for the 1st time I left an MTU out, in a nearly abandoned system, and when I returned the MTU was gone.

Upon checking the kill mail I noticed that the guy who did it had a killboard list full of MTU kills. And virtually no PvP fights, kills or losses. He destroys them and gets out ASAP. And almost all the loot drops have been piddly. So tell me, what's he getting out of it?

I think these people need to have a bit more risk and challenge in their activity. Not for the 'space pixels' but for the aggravation and headache of having to replace it and the lost time and effort.

So you shoot formerly red crosses in a nearly 100% risk free area of space, and now you want to nerf someone else's play style because the came along and added a miniscule amount of additional risk to you? The concept of 'additional risk' doesn't only apply to the other guy.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#54 - 2015-12-08 21:35:35 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Upon checking the kill mail I noticed that the guy who did it had a killboard list full of MTU kills. And virtually no PvP fights, kills or losses. He destroys them and gets out ASAP. And almost all the loot drops have been piddly. So tell me, what's he getting out of it?

I think these people need to have a bit more risk and challenge in their activity. Not for the 'space pixels' but for the aggravation and headache of having to replace it and the lost time and effort.






Some people in EVE are miners; some like to shoot red crosses. Others like to engage with other players, and others still prefer to sit in a station and do nothing but trade all day. Some even barely login, preferring instead the vast expanses of the forums. A small subset get their jollies at shooting MTUs and going suspect, in the hopes that the mission runner will engage with their shiny PVE battleship and be blown to kingdom come in a cheap T2 fitted HAC. That is what this guy likes to do, and fair play to him (and to you too, for shooting red crosses is your thing. No shame there).

The thing is, have you considered that perhaps he is doing the above (going suspect and trying to bait people into a fight), and he has simply encountered a particularly savvy group of mission runners? Is that not a possibility? In that case, then, could it not be argued that education and knowledge of game mechanics is far more useful than knee-jerk Band-Aids like this?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#55 - 2015-12-09 13:26:17 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:


TBH I think your idea is silly. You either give it a CONCORD style death ray of no escape, or don't bother. 3 days after skynet.... er your auto defense tractormadoodle goes live, it will be disected and counterable. Any sociopath not discussing it in the sociopath chat channel will only need to google 'eve tractor beam' and a how to will pop up explaining in detail how to go about their business by overcoming the auto defense.

Nothing "new" in this game survives a few days before a 'how to' is published to get through it easily.

On a side note. I'm just curious. You've labelled me a sociopath - is it OK if I refer to you as self indulgent whiney beetch from here on out? I figure one miguided label is as good as another. Are we cool with that?


TL/DR ...... sigh .......


Who cares if they can figure out how to overcome the defenses. The point is to make the activity more difficult and more risky.

The longer it takes to destroy, the more it softens them up, the longer it holds them down, the sooner it alerts its owner to an attack, the more risk there will be associated with trying to blow up someone's deployable.

Did I call *YOU* a sociopath? You must think you fit the bill if you believe so. But that depends on what you're getting out of your activities. Do you gain enjoyment (or any other psychological 'high') out of causing trouble, aggravation, difficulty, pain, suffering, or misery to others? (FYI, my response was simple aggravation). Do you lack empathy? Do you make excuses for your behavior, like "This is what CCP wants me to do." "I'm helping society if I kill this homeless bum on the street." If so, you very well may be a sociopath.





So can I generalize you and call you self indulgent whiney beetch? It was a simple question.

I think you're missing the whole point. Wether the stupid tractormadoodle shoots back or not isn't really going sway a guy that shoots them. (whipe the rage froth off your monitor and read the next part for comprehension). The tractormadoodle either gets CONCORD style 'you're dead w/ no escape' defenses or it's pointless because it won't deter anyone. Instant ship loss OR it doesn't matter.

The folks shooting these things really don't care if they take a little damage, that's why they are out shooting stuff to begin with. It's clear your assumptions on the motivations behind certain types of game play are waaaaaaay off the mark. I have a proposition for you. Come fly w/ me and mine for a week. See how we are on comms, see how we do what we do. You may not enjoy it, but at least you'll have some understanding as to what we are about. I'll even let you choose the venue - normal wh ganking stuff including wh space/null/low sex, flipping cans, shooting MTU or we could even do a suicide gank of a mission runner (I don't do freighters).

Come see it for what it really is.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#56 - 2015-12-09 13:33:03 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Upon checking the kill mail I noticed that the guy who did it had a killboard list full of MTU kills. And virtually no PvP fights, kills or losses. He destroys them and gets out ASAP. And almost all the loot drops have been piddly. So tell me, what's he getting out of it?

I think these people need to have a bit more risk and challenge in their activity. Not for the 'space pixels' but for the aggravation and headache of having to replace it and the lost time and effort.






Some people in EVE are miners; some like to shoot red crosses. Others like to engage with other players, and others still prefer to sit in a station and do nothing but trade all day. Some even barely login, preferring instead the vast expanses of the forums. A small subset get their jollies at shooting MTUs and going suspect, in the hopes that the mission runner will engage with their shiny PVE battleship and be blown to kingdom come in a cheap T2 fitted HAC. That is what this guy likes to do, and fair play to him (and to you too, for shooting red crosses is your thing. No shame there).

The thing is, have you considered that perhaps he is doing the above (going suspect and trying to bait people into a fight), and he has simply encountered a particularly savvy group of mission runners? Is that not a possibility? In that case, then, could it not be argued that education and knowledge of game mechanics is far more useful than knee-jerk Band-Aids like this?


Calling all MTU shooters. If you actually want a fight - go shoot MTU in Umokka. The last time I shot MTU (about a year ago) the locals trickled in fast enough to pop me. I came back w/ a logi alt - they got me again. I brought a dual boxing corpie w/ a dps boat and another logi - they popped all 4 ships. Down 7 ships to 1 we saluted local w/ GFs for all, had a nice group convo and then me and my pals moved on.

MTU action is in Umokka if you want a fight.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#57 - 2015-12-09 13:41:47 UTC
Excellent - thanks for the tip!

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2015-12-09 15:11:31 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:

More costly to be sure, but let the MTU's fight back.

Also how about a self-destruct. Once it get's below a certain amount of structure damage the self-destruct mechanism kicks in with a large directed burst of damaging energy and shrapnel that heads directly toward the attacker.

If that's too much the self-destruct would kick in upon destruction and simply destroy all the contents within.

How about an MTU that converts matter into shield energy. Destroying items within one-by-one to buff the shields. The more mass the object has the more shield energy it produces.

How about an MTU that sends you a notification that it's under attack if you are in game at the time.

Anyhow, I left one of these in the field for a very brief period in a lonely system (less than 5 minutes) when I docked up. It was destroyed by the time I returned (by a lone griefer who's killboard shows that this is his profession apparently).



Sure and let the owner become also a suspect (because it´s his mtu) and reduce the EHP by about 85-90%. Otherwise no just take your MTU with you it´s not that hard.

-1
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