These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Lv4s 100-150mil/h+: Breakdown

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#481 - 2015-12-08 02:50:00 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

So wait? You can't blitz burners forever?

That must mean Jenn and Baltec have absolutely no point as the massive gains they are QQing about are temporary. Just checking.


I imagine with 3 alts there sharing missions & standings it would be negated somewhat.


No that is not it.

The point in serious blitzing is you only need agent standings above negative 2 so you just decline everything but burners until you get down around negative 2 then start accepting the easily blitzed occasional non burner to keep yourself above negative 2. The way standings work means at close to negative 2 you can decline a lot more missions then you accept and still keep enough standings to keep missioning.

Seems to me that particular mechanic is the same everywhere null, losec or highsec.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#482 - 2015-12-08 03:05:10 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:

No that is not it.

The point in serious blitzing is you only need agent standings above negative 2 so you just decline everything but burners until you get down around negative 2 then start accepting the easily blitzed occasional non burner to keep yourself above negative 2. The way standings work means at close to negative 2 you can decline a lot more missions then you accept and still keep enough standings to keep missioning.

Seems to me that particular mechanic is the same everywhere null, losec or highsec.




I'll take you word for it, thanks for the explanation. seems broken though, can see why baltec1 & the other are wanting it nerfed.

hope any nerf they do doesnt mean you can't skip content & headshot missions (blitz them?) - that would suck for everyone.

@JerryTPepridge
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#483 - 2015-12-08 03:07:29 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

So wait? You can't blitz burners forever?

That must mean Jenn and Baltec have absolutely no point as the massive gains they are QQing about are temporary. Just checking.


I imagine with 3 alts there sharing missions & standings it would be negated somewhat.


No that is not it.

The point in serious blitzing is you only need agent standings above negative 2 so you just decline everything but burners until you get down around negative 2 then start accepting the easily blitzed occasional non burner to keep yourself above negative 2. The way standings work means at close to negative 2 you can decline a lot more missions then you accept and still keep enough standings to keep missioning.

Seems to me that particular mechanic is the same everywhere null, losec or highsec.

exactly. I can run almost only burner missions FOREVER using one account. Personally I just run several of the standard missions to keep standings at a decent level so I never have to worry about even looking at my standings. I could probably check standings more often and decline a few extra missions but I'm lazy and looking takes time.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#484 - 2015-12-08 03:21:09 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Overall this thread is totally illogical.

Claimed issue: People make too much out of SOE missioning

Rational Solution: Increase the ISK component of SOE specific LP store items

Commonly Suggested Solution: Nerf hisec LP for everyone everywhere

you have highly simplified it. pretty much all lv4 blitzing is higher than null income bar using a whole bunch of extra accounts. Lanngisi is just an example where it goes bonkers. and people have stated that lv3 blitzing can match null income. I don't have enough experiance with null income or lv3s so no comment from me on that part.

if you just add isk to the purchase price of SoE stuff people increase the price of SoE goods.

a lot of income comes from LP so it makes sense to nerf, however it is also a big isk sink so I like LP as a mechanic.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#485 - 2015-12-08 03:47:45 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:

3) Nerf the inc dmg on L4's everywhere else (Low/null) so they can be done in cheaper/PVP ships solo.


Whilst that would work, i am not 100% sure how it gels with the "higher risk higher reward" equation for which EVE is famous.

It also doesn't help people in renter space as there are no agents there.



The first problem is getting over Risk v Reward... Eve is clearly not based on this.

Eve is based on Effort v Reward and Ingenuity vs Reward.

Once you get over that old myth, things become easier to understand.

chasing cheap ass vexors around is pretty damn unrewarding. I don't know that I'd go that low on requirement to finish lv4s in null. Although I'd guess there are probably some missions where that does work.

and hey if eve is changing from risk reward to effort/ingenuity then I'm pretty alright with that, but I directly benefit from that P It's just not something that seems congruent with what I know about eve design

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#486 - 2015-12-08 04:13:07 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

chasing cheap ass vexors around is pretty damn unrewarding. I don't know that I'd go that low on requirement to finish lv4s in null. Although I'd guess there are probably some missions where that does work.

and hey if eve is changing from risk reward to effort/ingenuity then I'm pretty alright with that, but I directly benefit from that P It's just not something that seems congruent with what I know about eve design


Better than chasing cloaky nulified t3's, or interceptors.

i like the lower skill requirement due to helping new players get into it low & null & grow teeth early. the longer your in hisec, the harder to get out of it.

1m SP alts doing l4's in nullsec would be amazing.

@JerryTPepridge
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#487 - 2015-12-08 04:16:11 UTC
Johng Kahn wrote:
As usual in most claims of isk per hour i'm seeing trumped up numbers even if you do not count that your using 3 accounts to get this.

I'm not seeing the time spent on logistics in that at all. There was mention of going to jita to sell, restocking ammo, and such.

I personally ran out soe to get 8.0 standings for my alt corp. Not even including what BM's that i sold to Pro S. I had more then a dst's worth of pure crap that i later just reprocessed and sold the minerals in system.

I did all this with duel rattles that cranked out more then 1300 dps each. I'm sure there are levels of blitzing and efficiency beyond my experience out there but i'm no slouch either especially when i just want it to all be over.

Honestly with that kind of investment and accounting the 3 toons your not very far above what 3 hulks could do in highsec sitting on one belt and they do not have to run around exchanging lp and deciding what to sell and what not to.

Of all the types of pve I have enguaged in " belt ratting carrier being the only type i have not" I would have to say that Running l4's is in the bottom two of my list for profitability and fun.

If the ammount of toons and value to plex them is not included in the formula then the isk/hr is actually infinate cause i can just have 30 toons in domi running in 5 man fleets each landing in a site and afk clearing them as I work each set to next gate. Then your only bottle neck is how much computing power and bandwidth you have to work with.


the "best" results are achievable with one character. there is another thread that last I looked was on the front page. hell have the link: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454677&find=unread

you are right about the whole not including logistics times, however that is something that is hard to measure, Times will vary a metric **** ton between players. Most ammos/drones/cap boosters are seeded in lanngisi at an only slightly inflated price, buying ammo is very easy. some have said people will buy stuff right in lanngisi, but I mostly just drop it off in jita. warp speed rigged blockade runner makes the trip very quickly. so there are ways to vastly reduce selling times. I can spend 5mins a day updating orders once or all day updating every 5 mins. Prices typically change enough each week that you can put things up at one price and leave them and they will sell.

dual rattlesnakes are well... inefficient. rattles are quite frankly awful, but some people love them because of the huge EFT dps.

3 hulks involve a lot of moving/selling ore or minerals, and a lot of vulnerable to suicide ganks. to even compare that to lv4 running... lol no.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#488 - 2015-12-08 04:19:41 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

chasing cheap ass vexors around is pretty damn unrewarding. I don't know that I'd go that low on requirement to finish lv4s in null. Although I'd guess there are probably some missions where that does work.

and hey if eve is changing from risk reward to effort/ingenuity then I'm pretty alright with that, but I directly benefit from that P It's just not something that seems congruent with what I know about eve design


Better than chasing cloaky nulified t3's, or interceptors.

i like the lower skill requirement due to helping new players get into it low & null & grow teeth early. the longer your in hisec, the harder to get out of it.

1m SP alts doing l4's in nullsec would be amazing.

those options certainly aren't better. but I'd say at 1m sp running null lv3s should be pretty good income. I still think it makes sense to keep that lv4 req a bit higher.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#489 - 2015-12-08 08:10:20 UTC
I believe standings mechanics are changing soon, although I haven't seen a thread on it myself. This could be the death knell for blitzing that won't impact everyone else too.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#490 - 2015-12-08 10:23:21 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Overall this thread is totally illogical.

Claimed issue: People make too much out of SOE missioning

Rational Solution: Increase the ISK component of SOE specific LP store items

Commonly Suggested Solution: Nerf hisec LP for everyone everywhere


It's not just SOE it's the entire PVE setup. Highsec offers better rewards than null sec from most level 4 agents and a good few level 3 agents match it, low sec offers the best isk/hr of all, beating even WH income and all you need to risk is a t2 fitted torp bomber. In null the primary isk maker is so easy you can run them afk but can only support a handful per system and inject too much raw isk. Ironically because anoms inject a large amount of isk it means that they are slowly becoming worth less as inflation happens. This is why nobody belt rats these days while back in 2005 you could find a raven in almost every belt in null.

PVE has a lot of problems in all areas of space.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#491 - 2015-12-08 13:05:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Overall this thread is totally illogical.

Claimed issue: People make too much out of SOE missioning

Rational Solution: Increase the ISK component of SOE specific LP store items

Commonly Suggested Solution: Nerf hisec LP for everyone everywhere


It's not just SOE it's the entire PVE setup. Highsec offers better rewards than null sec from most level 4 agents and a good few level 3 agents match it, low sec offers the best isk/hr of all, beating even WH income and all you need to risk is a t2 fitted torp bomber. In null the primary isk maker is so easy you can run them afk but can only support a handful per system and inject too much raw isk. Ironically because anoms inject a large amount of isk it means that they are slowly becoming worth less as inflation happens. This is why nobody belt rats these days while back in 2005 you could find a raven in almost every belt in null.

PVE has a lot of problems in all areas of space.


And as we have said before. Mission for mission Low/Null pays out far more for the same missions than HS does. Don't like the risk? Don't do em in Null sec. It has nothing to do with how "good" high sec is, that is a player created problem.

Next, WH income is unmatched, yes FW is nice and all, but WH is unmatched. It also has the greatest risk and effort.

Belt ratting is still done by people without standings or skills required to do missions or anoms. That being said, it is a neglected piece of content that CCP has forgotten about over the years. It is on my personal list of things CCP should buff before they do anything more with sov or Gila nerfs.

And then you went off the deep end. "Inflation". There is only one single part of the eve economy "inflating" and its Plex. Plex is not a normal item so it is never included in price index.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS DEFLATING.

1 billion graphs, a dozen CCP reports and fanfest videos over the last half decade and you still lie straight through your teeth that the economy suffer inflation...

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#492 - 2015-12-08 13:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Overall this thread is totally illogical.

Claimed issue: People make too much out of SOE missioning

Rational Solution: Increase the ISK component of SOE specific LP store items

Commonly Suggested Solution: Nerf hisec LP for everyone everywhere


It's not just SOE it's the entire PVE setup. Highsec offers better rewards than null sec from most level 4 agents and a good few level 3 agents match it, low sec offers the best isk/hr of all, beating even WH income and all you need to risk is a t2 fitted torp bomber. In null the primary isk maker is so easy you can run them afk but can only support a handful per system and inject too much raw isk. Ironically because anoms inject a large amount of isk it means that they are slowly becoming worth less as inflation happens. This is why nobody belt rats these days while back in 2005 you could find a raven in almost every belt in null.

PVE has a lot of problems in all areas of space.


And as we have said before. Mission for mission Low/Null pays out far more for the same missions than HS does. Don't like the risk? Don't do em in Null sec. It has nothing to do with how "good" high sec is, that is a player created problem.

Next, WH income is unmatched, yes FW is nice and all, but WH is unmatched. It also has the greatest risk and effort.

Belt ratting is still done by people without standings or skills required to do missions or anoms. That being said, it is a neglected piece of content that CCP has forgotten about over the years. It is on my personal list of things CCP should buff before they do anything more with sov or Gila nerfs.

And then you went off the deep end. "Inflation". There is only one single part of the eve economy "inflating" and its Plex. Plex is not a normal item so it is never included in price index.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS DEFLATING.

1 billion graphs, a dozen CCP reports and fanfest videos over the last half decade and you still lie straight through your teeth that the economy suffer inflation...


So it should be easy for you to show this deflation over the last decade.

Belt ratting is done by nobody and hasn't been a thing for years now. It is by far the worst isk/hr activity in PVE outmatched even by sucking on the belt itself. FW missions in a bomber meanwhile is the very best income in EVE topping out at 300-350 mil/hr. Also as you have been told every time there are zero mission agents in sov null.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#493 - 2015-12-08 13:44:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Overall this thread is totally illogical.

Claimed issue: People make too much out of SOE missioning

Rational Solution: Increase the ISK component of SOE specific LP store items

Commonly Suggested Solution: Nerf hisec LP for everyone everywhere


It's not just SOE it's the entire PVE setup. Highsec offers better rewards than null sec from most level 4 agents and a good few level 3 agents match it, low sec offers the best isk/hr of all, beating even WH income and all you need to risk is a t2 fitted torp bomber. In null the primary isk maker is so easy you can run them afk but can only support a handful per system and inject too much raw isk. Ironically because anoms inject a large amount of isk it means that they are slowly becoming worth less as inflation happens. This is why nobody belt rats these days while back in 2005 you could find a raven in almost every belt in null.

PVE has a lot of problems in all areas of space.


And as we have said before. Mission for mission Low/Null pays out far more for the same missions than HS does. Don't like the risk? Don't do em in Null sec. It has nothing to do with how "good" high sec is, that is a player created problem.

Next, WH income is unmatched, yes FW is nice and all, but WH is unmatched. It also has the greatest risk and effort.

Belt ratting is still done by people without standings or skills required to do missions or anoms. That being said, it is a neglected piece of content that CCP has forgotten about over the years. It is on my personal list of things CCP should buff before they do anything more with sov or Gila nerfs.

And then you went off the deep end. "Inflation". There is only one single part of the eve economy "inflating" and its Plex. Plex is not a normal item so it is never included in price index.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS DEFLATING.

1 billion graphs, a dozen CCP reports and fanfest videos over the last half decade and you still lie straight through your teeth that the economy suffer inflation...


So it should be easy for you to show this deflation over the last decade.



http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/economy.indices_4.png

Yep... There is the result of CPI over the course of the Game History... under 100, well under. Primary under a hundred. Secondary and Mineral barely moved up overall in over 10 years... that is what we would call, deflation.

Meanwhile...

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/velocity.png

Velocity of isk. Even though you keep claiming it is so easy to make isk now... people seem to be using it less and less. Velocity down every year on average.

Feel dumb now don't you, or are you going to overheat Spin to get away?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#494 - 2015-12-08 13:48:12 UTC
Oh and Baltec... as of this morning your FW isk printing machine you were so worried about was nerfed. More Ewar in missions, now they have scram and web rats and they just banned T3D from sites.

So the nerfs keep flowing for the things you hate most... do you think it will do anything to make you happy?!

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#495 - 2015-12-08 13:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Did they add missile tracking disruptors as part of NPC electronic warfare?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#496 - 2015-12-08 14:10:21 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Oh and Baltec... as of this morning your FW isk printing machine you were so worried about was nerfed. More Ewar in missions, now they have scram and web rats and they just banned T3D from sites.

So the nerfs keep flowing for the things you hate most... do you think it will do anything to make you happy?!


lol, did someone step on your precious status quo?

It's funny to see you get upset when i call you (your words) a Status Quo person but when CCP nerfs the SINGLE most unbalance pve feature in the history of the game (ie being about to make hundreds of millions of isk worth of LP per hour in a throwaway FRIGATE SIZED SHIP in low sec) you protest.

That's just freaking amazing. Good job.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#497 - 2015-12-08 14:18:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Oh and Baltec... as of this morning your FW isk printing machine you were so worried about was nerfed. More Ewar in missions, now they have scram and web rats and they just banned T3D from sites.

So the nerfs keep flowing for the things you hate most... do you think it will do anything to make you happy?!


lol, did someone step on your precious status quo?

It's funny to see you get upset when i call you (your words) a Status Quo person but when CCP nerfs the SINGLE most unbalance pve feature in the history of the game (ie being about to make hundreds of millions of isk worth of LP per hour in a throwaway FRIGATE SIZED SHIP in low sec) you protest.

That's just freaking amazing. Good job.



Careful now... you are starting to sound like a QQ baby.

Just 2 pages ago you said Incursions were the single most unbalanced PVE in the game.

Make up your mind sir.

Pro Tip for the future: Markets are by far the most lucrative part of this game, the least amount of effort and relatively low risk if you know what you are doing. I don't have to shoot a single red cross to make your null sec worthless lol

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#498 - 2015-12-08 14:30:46 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Oh and Baltec... as of this morning your FW isk printing machine you were so worried about was nerfed. More Ewar in missions, now they have scram and web rats and they just banned T3D from sites.

So the nerfs keep flowing for the things you hate most... do you think it will do anything to make you happy?!


No, they didn't add scrams to FW missions. Caldari and Minmatar FW missions got some more webbing frigates added and Gallente FW missions got ECM nerfed a little in their missions.

If anything, it is now more balanced between the 4 factions.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#499 - 2015-12-08 14:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Market McSelling Alt
We going to talk about the buff to anoms now in the form of grid sizes?

Not only can you use local as your intel, you can now see ships in warp 8k out. Meaning even ceptors will still be roughly 4 or 5 seconds away from deceleration before they can lock and will be visible on your overview.
Add to that changes incoming to warp decel curves so ships don't just appear at the end of warp, instead you visibly see them slow down on your UI.

Just one more thing to make Null sec safer and safer.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#500 - 2015-12-08 14:33:36 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Just 2 pages ago you said Incursions were the single most unbalanced PVE in the game.


Make up your mind sir.


This is page 25. 2 pages ago was page 23. I have no posts on page 23. WTF are you talking about?


Quote:

Pro Tip for the future: Markets are by far the most lucrative part of this game, the least amount of effort and relatively low risk if you know what you are doing. I don't have to shoot a single red cross to make your null sec worthless lol


And this has exactly what to do with the fact that you are a status quo supporter? Also, what does this have to do with PVE balance?

You are becoming unhinged (that tends to happen when one sees defeat looming, as in the changes that have affected FW missions and incursions).