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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Top Guac
Doomheim
#2641 - 2015-12-06 03:59:15 UTC
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote:
..also another fact is all popular mmos are declining in numbers.

for many reasons... sub fees are not "cool" anymore because apparently 15$ is too much money, the constant nerfs and buffs to things the communities never asked for, the devs thinking they know what's fun for gamers without even testing their new gameplays with their communities, the fact that gaming is trying to cater to mass market rather than gameplay... all in the name for money. the fact that some of these games are ancient and people moving on to different games... the fact that people are sick and tired of grinding in the mmo genre, the fact that mobas and some other genres offer instant gratification pvp, the fact that esports is becoming a norm where players are capable of getting decent income without having to get a so called "real job" and that mmos usually don't offer this...

You post a lot of facts there son. Where do they derive from exactly?

Down on the avacado farm, we believe in Nietzsche (just for that pseudo intellectual look) where the are no facts, just interpretations.
Top Guac
Doomheim
#2642 - 2015-12-06 04:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Top Guac
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
We are going to hit a critical mass point where it will be hard to come back from. Soon when the numbers drop to a point where people are leaving just because the numbers have dropped, CCP will have to spend some real effort to figure out retention.

So the decline in numbers will start to turn into even more RAPID!!!!! (5 !s now)?

Yes, when the thread started it was rapid. Now it's rapider, or super rapid, or something.

Soon it's going to go critically rapid and we'll all implode together.

It's like that last silly Terminator movie. As they got closer to stopping Genesys the clock started counting faster and it looked like Dr Who was going to materialise any second.

I just hope CCP can channel Khaleesi too and all will be good in the New Eden. Disaster averted.

Though, looking at TQ Tech III, for a dying game I'm predicting self awareness on 22 July 2017.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2643 - 2015-12-06 04:45:59 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Yes, when the thread started it was rapid. Now it's rapider, or super rapid, or something.

Soon it's going to go critically rapid and we'll all implode together.

Sounds like we didn't doomsday tank.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Top Guac
Doomheim
#2644 - 2015-12-06 05:35:29 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Yes, when the thread started it was rapid. Now it's rapider, or super rapid, or something.

Soon it's going to go critically rapid and we'll all implode together.

Sounds like we didn't doomsday tank.

You kidding me? This is the forums. The only tank we do is 'whinge tank'

CCP, I died cause I'm a idiot. It's not my fault Please change game to be safe for idiots. Non idiots too stronk. Unfair.

^^^ that's how to forum from what I'm learning around here
Nachtengel von Rothschild
#2645 - 2015-12-06 05:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nachtengel von Rothschild
Quote:
You post a lot of facts there son. Where do they derive from exactly?

Down on the avacado farm, we believe in Nietzsche (just for that pseudo intellectual look) where the are no facts, just interpretations.


first of all i only stated one fact and that was about popular mmos declining.

most of them are... and what you deem as popular i guess is subjective right?

world of warcraft is declining for reasons i posted in the post you quoted
gw2 is declining because world vs world is dead, there was a surge when expansion landed... but people are quickly leaving
ffiv subs are mostly asian, in na and eu it has declined

besides that the rest aren't popular in my opinion... wild star barely has anyone, swtor and eso only has hardcore fans... not many even bother downloading it to try it out... and most just uninstall them

any other popular mmos im forgetting?

destiny isn't an mmo, it is doing decent i suppose
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2646 - 2015-12-06 06:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Decoy
My personal opinion of course, but EVE has a unique community culture that you can't find in any other mainstream game these days. Until someone tries something similar with some kind of success, we will continue to have a core community that will be satisfied by the challenges and risks presented in this community. I'm not too concerned with fluctuating statistics about players connected to TQ.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2647 - 2015-12-06 06:38:40 UTC
Mir Jana wrote:
I was wondering about something...

January 2014 - average was 41k online
June 2014 - average was 32k online
December 2014 - average was 27k online
May 2015 - average was 21k online
August 2015 - average is 16k online

today I logged in at 14793 online.....

What can CCP do to re-build its populace cause obviously something is rotten in the state of Iceland...?


Why the **** is this thread still going?

August 2015 average was 21,000....much like the may number.

The October-November numbers 21,000.

The point is, somebody looked at the players logged in at a daily low point concluded it meant something about the overall trend and was ****ing wrong.

Right now my client says there are 18,166 players online.

EveMon says, 18,149 players online.

Oh joy, the decline in players has changed and in 10 more days we'll be a 65,000 players logged on.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Top Guac
Doomheim
#2648 - 2015-12-06 07:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Top Guac
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote:
Quote:
You post a lot of facts there son. Where do they derive from exactly?

Down on the avacado farm, we believe in Nietzsche (just for that pseudo intellectual look) where the are no facts, just interpretations.


first of all i only stated one fact ...

I count the word "fact" used 6 times in the passage I quoted.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2649 - 2015-12-06 13:12:47 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

2015 average, January to October: 32k (-7k)
2014 average, January to October: 39k (-7k)
2013 average, January to October: 46k (+5k)
2012 average, January to October: 41k (-3k)
2011 average, January to October: 44k (=)
2010 average, January to October: 44k (+3k)
2009 average, January to October: 41k (+8k)
2008 average, January to October: 33k (+5k)
2007 average, January to October: 28k (+6k)
2006 average, January to October: 22k (+11k)
2005 average, January to October: 11k (+3k)
2004 average, January to October: 08k

We should see a small bump in November and then some lows in December.


Another update:

2015 average, January to August: 33k (-7k)
2014 average, January to August: 40k (-7k)
2013 average, January to August: 47k (+6k)
2012 average, January to August: 41k (-4k)
2011 average, January to August: 45k (+1k)
2010 average, January to August: 44k (+3k)
2009 average, January to August: 41k (+8k)
2008 average, January to August: 33k (+5k)
2007 average, January to August: 28k (+6k)
2006 average, January to August: 21k (+10k)
2005 average, January to August: 11k (+3k)
2004 average, January to August: 08k


2015 average, January to September: 32k (-7k)
2014 average, January to September: 39k (-7k)
2013 average, January to September: 46k (+5k)
2012 average, January to September: 41k (-3k)
2011 average, January to September: 44k (=)
2010 average, January to September: 44k (+3k)
2009 average, January to September: 41k (+8k)
2008 average, January to September: 33k (+5k)
2007 average, January to September: 28k (+6k)


2015 average, January to October: 32k (-7k)
2014 average, January to October: 39k (-7k)
2013 average, January to October: 46k (+5k)
2012 average, January to October: 41k (-3k)
2011 average, January to October: 44k (=)
2010 average, January to October: 44k (+3k)
2009 average, January to October: 41k (+8k)
2008 average, January to October: 33k (+5k)
2007 average, January to October: 28k (+6k)
2006 average, January to October: 22k (+11k)
2005 average, January to October: 11k (+3k)
2004 average, January to October: 08k


2015 average, January to November: 32k (-7k)
2014 average, January to November: 39k (-6k)
2013 average, January to November: 45k (+5k)
2012 average, January to November: 41k (-2k)
2011 average, January to November: 43k (-1k)
2010 average, January to November: 44k (+3k)
2009 average, January to November: 41k (+8k)
2008 average, January to November: 33k (+5k)
2007 average, January to November: 28k (+6k)
2006 average, January to November: 22k (+10k)
2005 average, January to November: 12k (+4k)
2004 average, January to November: 08k
Solecist Project
#2650 - 2015-12-06 13:20:04 UTC
I really don't like how people use numbers without accounting for all factors.
It's as if people deliberately ignore certain developments just to make others believe it's true.
Like MCT, ban of isboxmultiboxing, botbans.

I do often wonder if it's stupid peoppe saying stupid things ...
... or if it's smart people manipulating stupid people.

Nonetheless are all these posts nothing more than self serving ...
... and in the end CCP benefits from them anyway. :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2651 - 2015-12-06 13:36:52 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I really don't like how people use numbers without accounting for all factors.
It's as if people deliberately ignore certain developments just to make others believe it's true.
Like MCT, ban of isboxmultiboxing, botbans.

I do often wonder if it's stupid peoppe saying stupid things ...
... or if it's smart people manipulating stupid people.

Nonetheless are all these posts nothing more than self serving ...
... and in the end CCP benefits from them anyway. :D




I really don't like how people make excuse after excuse, especially when a clear trend line has been established.

Not entirely sure how we are self serving by posting the decline of our server population, or how the decline or us pointing it out helps CCP. Roll

Whatever makes you feel better I suppose.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2652 - 2015-12-06 20:23:33 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Most of the chat channels I peruse are dead mostly except for political talk.

I don't know. I remember the old days when I would get invited to random team speaks and shoot the crap with other EVE players.

Now its all dead.

Did you consider the possibility that maybe your the problem?


Nope. I am on other games teamspeaks all the time. Just no EVE anymore... That is what made the game interesting.

Communication.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Nachtengel von Rothschild
#2653 - 2015-12-07 08:44:06 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote:
Quote:
You post a lot of facts there son. Where do they derive from exactly?

Down on the avacado farm, we believe in Nietzsche (just for that pseudo intellectual look) where the are no facts, just interpretations.


first of all i only stated one fact ...

I count the word "fact" used 6 times in the passage I quoted.


oops i should of replaced the word fact with "possible reason"

of course tho... the only reason is removal of bots and multiboxers right?

don't worry, your game is fine... i mean people are still playing everquest right?

low population is very attractive for mmos, it encourages new people to join the fun.
Top Guac
Doomheim
#2654 - 2015-12-07 09:03:22 UTC
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote:
Quote:
You post a lot of facts there son. Where do they derive from exactly?

Down on the avacado farm, we believe in Nietzsche (just for that pseudo intellectual look) where the are no facts, just interpretations.


first of all i only stated one fact ...

I count the word "fact" used 6 times in the passage I quoted.


oops i should of replaced the word fact with "possible reason"

of course tho... the only reason is removal of bots and multiboxers right?

don't worry, your game is fine... i mean people are still playing everquest right?

low population is very attractive for mmos, it encourages new people to join the fun.

Woah....settle down spaceman.

I just asked where you "facts" came from because none of them seemed like facts at all.

Do jump to conclusions about other things, like my view of Eve. You are likely to be very wrong.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2655 - 2015-12-07 09:15:32 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I really don't like how people use numbers without accounting for all factors.
It's as if people deliberately ignore certain developments just to make others believe it's true.
Like MCT, ban of isboxmultiboxing, botbans.

I do often wonder if it's stupid peoppe saying stupid things ...
... or if it's smart people manipulating stupid people.

Nonetheless are all these posts nothing more than self serving ...
... and in the end CCP benefits from them anyway. :D



Those people have an agenda, not hidden really, and they will post and whine and post more and vomit numbers to further their cause.
Solecist Project
#2656 - 2015-12-07 10:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Gregor Parud wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
I really don't like how people use numbers without accounting for all factors.
It's as if people deliberately ignore certain developments just to make others believe it's true.
Like MCT, ban of isboxmultiboxing, botbans.

I do often wonder if it's stupid peoppe saying stupid things ...
... or if it's smart people manipulating stupid people.

Nonetheless are all these posts nothing more than self serving ...
... and in the end CCP benefits from them anyway. :D



Those people have an agenda, not hidden really, and they will post and whine and post more and vomit numbers to further their cause.

Yeah and it's great, because they are subscribed and create content ...
... have no influence or reach into different opinions whatsoever ...
... while being unable to let go of their bitterness! :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2657 - 2015-12-07 11:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

I really don't like how people make excuse after excuse, especially when a clear trend line has been established.

Not entirely sure how we are self serving by posting the decline of our server population, or how the decline or us pointing it out helps CCP. Roll

Whatever makes you feel better I suppose.


Here is the thing, I think no one disputes that there is decline in the numbers. What people are not agreeing on is how steep is the rate of decline and what is the reason. This is very complex and IMO no one are capable of answering this (As PCU does not equalize unique player count for one. and there are a ton of other factors that could affect this)

Where you become self serving is when you couple the decline to lack of focus on PVE (yes, you have done that). You have no way of knowing this, just like the people who claim it is due to too much highsec security....too little nullsec... too much low sec.. Or lack of big fleet fight.. etc. etc.

Where opinionated people become dangerous is when they push for changes based on loose speculations, without really knowing the true mechanisms behind (Thinking you do would be really arrogant and an overestimation of your own mental capabilities, again it is all IMO). The worst case scenario CCP listens in desperation and your fix was the wrong solution. Like what happened with SWG, finally killing the game.

Generally I am also perplexed about your atitude. If your hypothesis is correct that we are nearing the critical mass, your behaviour would equalize to a man on titanic, screaming I told you so... I told you so.
You would be right (not saying you are), but you are still on the boat and it wouldn't matter as you would still drown. So I fight to grasp what is the purpose of your posts? feeling good about what you perceive as being right? I tbh. would prefer if you gracefully and dignified, just would start playing the violin, as the ship is sinking(if it is).

What can one then do? As no figthing on the forums is gonna help, I am just gonna wait and see when the citadels come into play, how many will resub. Even the 8th of december release looks pretty good tbh. we will see.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2658 - 2015-12-07 12:44:11 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Here is the thing, I think no one disputes that there is decline in the numbers. What people are not agreeing on is how steep is the rate of decline and what is the reason. This is very complex and IMO no one are capable of answering this (As PCU does not equalize unique player count for one. and there are a ton of other factors that could affect this)

Where you become self serving is when you couple the decline to lack of focus on PVE (yes, you have done that). You have no way of knowing this, just like the people who claim it is due to too much highsec security....too little nullsec... too much low sec.. Or lack of big fleet fight.. etc. etc.

Where opinionated people become dangerous is when they push for changes based on loose speculations, without really knowing the true mechanisms behind (Thinking you do would be really arrogant and an overestimation of your own mental capabilities, again it is all IMO). The worst case scenario CCP listens in desperation and your fix was the wrong solution. Like what happened with SWG, finally killing the game.

Generally I am also perplexed about your atitude. If your hypothesis is correct that we are nearing the critical mass, your behaviour would equalize to a man on titanic, screaming I told you so... I told you so.
You would be right (not saying you are), but you are still on the boat and it wouldn't matter as you would still drown. So I fight to grasp what is the purpose of your posts? feeling good about what you perceive as being right? I tbh. would prefer if you gracefully and dignified, just would start playing the violin, as the ship is sinking(if it is).

What can one then do? As no figthing on the forums is gonna help, I am just gonna wait and see when the citadels come into play, how many will resub. Even the 8th of december release looks pretty good tbh. we will see.


The case for PvE is a bit stronger than that.

First, CCP was kind enough to provide some actual info and confirm what we already knew: Most people pay a subscription to do PvE and they barely PvP.
Second, CCP informed on something we suspected: an ample majority of new players only do PvE.
Third, CCP also confirmed another known fact: people who PvE stay subscribed for shorter tenures.
And fourth, CCP also stated that there is an issue with PvE players who quit.

So we have a solid case: numbers go down, PvE is going down, PvE is the new player's favorite activity and PvErs are a majority of the subscribers.

Now, what CCP is attempting is to retain PvP players and improve the amount of PvE players who become PvP players. CCP have decided that PvP is more relevant than PvE to their long term interests, and so they're focused on PvP... althought they made that decission BEFORE having actual data on the PvE / PvP subscriber ratio.

This is why some PvE players think that CCP is wrong to ignore us, or give up on us, and it would be wiser if they worked to retain us and put our gamepaly on par with PvP.

What makes EVE unique is content generation. Your actions matter and yadda yadda. Yet PvErs are denied tools to do that unless they PvP. There is no reason for this.

There are many ways to compete. As I've said many times, chess is as much a mean to PvP as boxing. Yet not in EVE.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2659 - 2015-12-07 13:02:44 UTC
what do you mean pve'ers are denied tools to create content?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Solecist Project
#2660 - 2015-12-07 13:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Lan Wang wrote:
what do you mean pve'ers are denied tools to create content?

*chokes wang**

Don't start! -.-


* realized a bit late; won't delete because it's funny. :p

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia