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NPC Bounty Hunters

Author
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-12-03 19:22:35 UTC

So the player bounty hunter system hasn't really panned out. And it's difficult to see how it can truly be fixed.

I would propose that, while still keeping the ability for players to collect bounties, that a system of NPC bounty hunters also be implemented.

The number of bounty hunters and the types of systems in which they will 'look' for you will increase as the bounty on your head increases, as well as how good (or elite) the bounty hunters are which look for you. It could also increase the chance they have of finding you.

So with a low bounty in a high-sec system, your odds of an NPC bounty hunter seeking you out and finding you are pretty low. While with a very large bounty on your head, you'll have multiple NPC bounty hunters hunting you, and your risk of being pursued and found in high-sec space is higher. With a high enough bounty they may be even able to pay off 'bribe' CONCORD.

The NPC bounty hunters will collect the ISK (making this an ISK sink).

Players which place bounties will still have the satisfaction of getting their 'revenge' on someone, or 'harassing' someone.

This can play into the lore as well, with NPC bounty hunters which make a name for themselves. You can learn the names of these bounty hunters and try to evade them. But be warned they are good.

I think this would really breath new life into the Bounty Hunter system.
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-12-03 19:41:16 UTC
Um yeah, I wouldn't abuse this at all. Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-12-03 20:03:04 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Um yeah, I wouldn't abuse this at all. Roll



We know you wouldn't Lloyd, righteous upstanding empire citizen that you are. Lol

So what sort of abuse of this system do you see? That isn't already possible with the existing system.

Discuss. Let's see if there are solutions to prevent abuse.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2015-12-03 20:43:15 UTC
I would support this, but only if the npc bounty hunters can kill my targets inside the station.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-12-03 21:03:05 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I would support this, but only if the npc bounty hunters can kill my targets inside the station.


That might need to wait until they get back to working on some WiS stuff.

Paranoid Loyd
#6 - 2015-12-03 21:09:34 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Um yeah, I wouldn't abuse this at all. Roll



We know you wouldn't Lloyd, righteous upstanding empire citizen that you are. Lol

So what sort of abuse of this system do you see? That isn't already possible with the existing system.

Discuss. Let's see if there are solutions to prevent abuse.


Concord is the reason the system doesn't work as is. It is too costly to collect bounties unless the target is flying a lot of bling and in that case they will probably be killed anyway as they are profitable to gank regardless of the size of their bounty.

If you make these theoretical NPCs easy to escape from you accomplish nothing. If they are not easy to escape from then I can pretty much bounty whomever I want and they will lose their ship or not undock at all.

So I go to the SOE agent of my choice and sit on the undock and scan, wait for ships that have loot worth scooping but not worth ganking and bounty away.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#7 - 2015-12-03 21:53:55 UTC
errr. you could just take a disliking to a player and put a huge bounty on his head - thus ruining his play time for no content,
if a player wants to collect a bounty they've gotta either lose their ship/find a killright to purchase (HS) or go play in low/null

OP's bounty hunters ignore concord? abusable as F*****

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#8 - 2015-12-03 22:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
i see some concerns about abuse and they are well founded, so.....


What if the new bounty system was tied to actual criminal losses, not just the old, "tom doesnt have a bounty so ill put a bounty of 1 million on his head crap".

1. your death would have to be a crime.

2. The amount of loss you take limits how much bounty you can place on your killer(s). You could spread the bounty out amongst all your attackers or just choose one and bounty that person as long as that person committed a crime.

The limit you can place would have to be substantially lower than your actual loss so that piracy still paid the bills for pirates. As an off hand number, perhaps 10% of your losses would be the limit you could place on your killers.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-12-03 22:54:18 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:

Concord is the reason the system doesn't work as is. It is too costly to collect bounties unless the target is flying a lot of bling and in that case they will probably be killed anyway as they are profitable to gank regardless of the size of their bounty.

If you make these theoretical NPCs easy to escape from you accomplish nothing. If they are not easy to escape from then I can pretty much bounty whomever I want and they will lose their ship or not undock at all.

So I go to the SOE agent of my choice and sit on the undock and scan, wait for ships that have loot worth scooping but not worth ganking and bounty away.


The level of bounty required to get an NPC bounty hunter to go into High-sec (keep in mind that CONCORD will still respond in most circumstances) will be quite substantial. It will typically not be worth your effort to pay a bounty on someone just to scoop what drops from their wreck.

I'm not talking about a system where a small bounty will allow you to get an NPC bounty hunter's interest that easily.

The amount of bounty to get even a single NPC bounty hunter's interest should probably be in the millions of ISK, and that would be to get them on your case in Low-sec. To get them interested, let alone interested to attack you in say a 0.9 system, let alone multiple NPC bounty hunters interested, let alone to get the Elite NPC bounty hunter's interest would be in the billions of ISK on your head.

There would be a formula which takes into consideration a variety of factors, to come up with a chance per hour that an NPC bounty hunter will find and attack you, and what sort of bounty hunter it is (or they are).

In other words only those in the Top 10, would be at the highest risk of having NPC Bounty hunters haranguing them most places that they go.

And even then it will be a chance based calculation that a bounty hunter who is looking for you will find you. That chance goes up with each bounty hunter who is looking for you, and that will only happen when you've got a fairly substantial bounty on your head.

Finally, it could also be possible to have NPC bounty hunters scoop loot. The ISK sink potential could be even higher.

Paranoid Loyd
#10 - 2015-12-03 22:57:37 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
(keep in mind that CONCORD will still respond in most circumstances)
All this does is create the exact situation you have now.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-12-03 23:03:36 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
(keep in mind that CONCORD will still respond in most circumstances)
All this does is create the exact situation you have now.


Well there ought to be a point where the bounty is high enough (I'd say very high) that CONCORD will not respond, or they will respond much slower. Perhaps progressively slower the higher the bounty gets.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2015-12-04 00:03:22 UTC
Concord does not respond to NPC violence. Concord is a game mechanic to stop players griefing excessively.
And even then it doesn't work in all cases.
Anyway, NPC's that hunt you based purely on a player putting a bounty on you is basically allowing players to hire NPC's to fight for them. Which is silly.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-12-04 00:07:35 UTC
How much bounty do I have to put on an autopiloting freighter to get rats to kill it for me?
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2015-12-04 00:16:12 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:



What if the new bounty system was tied to actual criminal losses, not just the old, "tom doesnt have a bounty so ill put a bounty of 1 million on his head crap".




Asinine. Bob wants to offer some money for someone to off Alice. Why would his ability to do so be predicated on Alice being a criminal?

Anyway, the concept of hiring NPCs to do your PvP for you is pretty gross.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#15 - 2015-12-04 00:19:26 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
(keep in mind that CONCORD will still respond in most circumstances)
All this does is create the exact situation you have now.


Well there ought to be a point where the bounty is high enough (I'd say very high) that CONCORD will not respond, or they will respond much slower. Perhaps progressively slower the higher the bounty gets.




Why? Why would Concord give a ****? The bounty has nothing to do with a criminal justice system. It's effectively an open-bid contract killing.

Anyway, do these NPC bounty hunters drop good loot? People are always saying you should invest in yourself, soooo....

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-12-04 00:49:38 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
How much bounty do I have to put on an autopiloting freighter to get rats to kill it for me?



Quite a bit I'd imagine.

What's he flying? Where is he flying it?

An Obelisk through high-sec is going to require an extremely large bounty, just to get NPC bounty hunters interested and enough of them interested to be able to effectively take out an auto-piloting Obelisk before CONCORD can respond.

Also NPC bounty hunters are not going to use the asinine bumping mechanic to bump the Obelisk away from his trajectory toward the gate, or misalign him going into warp.

Let's just say that you (alone) can't afford it. Though I'd say MarkeeDragon has enough on him to worry about it.

Furthermore it's not like these bounty hunters are going to appear instantly when you place a large enough bounty. The higher the bounty the higher the odds that a bounty hunter will track them down and attack (dependent on the aforementioned factors), but there is no guarantee if or when that will happen in any given hour.


Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-12-04 03:06:41 UTC
We would see more incorporation between players and NPCs like hauling contracts in future. So don't see a big harm if NPC get involved into bounty business. I don't personally like suggested mechanics on how the author sre it in his turn. It's like a ceryain level of bounty switches the triger. No.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-12-04 04:11:45 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
We would see more incorporation between players and NPCs like hauling contracts in future. So don't see a big harm if NPC get involved into bounty business. I don't personally like suggested mechanics on how the author sre it in his turn. It's like a ceryain level of bounty switches the triger. No.



It's not a hard trigger, it's more like a formula that ultimately only affect a probability, perhaps several probabilities, that dictate whether one or more NPC bounty hunters will a) seek you out and b) locate and attack you. And c) How skilled / tough those bounty hunters are.

People with small bounties will have little to fear. There will be a very small (close to zero) chance a bounty hunter will decide to seek you out, and if so find and attack you. And if one does attack it will be a very small chance that the bounty hunter is particularly skilled or tough.

People with very large bounties, in excess of billions, will find they are much more aggressively pursued, by multiple bounty hunters, who are skilled and tough. Still I'd make the odds of bumping into an NPC bounty hunter(s) fairly small in High-sec (maybe 10% chance in any given hour), even though markedly higher than those with small bounties . With increasing likelihood in lower security space.







Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2015-12-04 06:20:41 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
How much bounty do I have to put on an autopiloting freighter to get rats to kill it for me?



Quite a bit I'd imagine.

What's he flying? Where is he flying it?

An Obelisk through high-sec is going to require an extremely large bounty, just to get NPC bounty hunters interested and enough of them interested to be able to effectively take out an auto-piloting Obelisk before CONCORD can respond.

Also NPC bounty hunters are not going to use the asinine bumping mechanic to bump the Obelisk away from his trajectory toward the gate, or misalign him going into warp.

Let's just say that you (alone) can't afford it. Though I'd say MarkeeDragon has enough on him to worry about it.

Furthermore it's not like these bounty hunters are going to appear instantly when you place a large enough bounty. The higher the bounty the higher the odds that a bounty hunter will track them down and attack (dependent on the aforementioned factors), but there is no guarantee if or when that will happen in any given hour.




So, if you're talking tens of billions of ISK in bounties required to actually get the rats to show up, isn't this fairly pointless?

I mean, if you really want to add a mechanic that is at most going to affect two dozen players in the entire game, you're going to have to justify it somehow, and anyone with a bounty as large as you're saying is going to get themselves suicide ganked well before rats show up for them, assuming they ever fly in highsec anyway.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-12-04 07:31:47 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


So, if you're talking tens of billions of ISK in bounties required to actually get the rats to show up, isn't this fairly pointless?

I mean, if you really want to add a mechanic that is at most going to affect two dozen players in the entire game, you're going to have to justify it somehow, and anyone with a bounty as large as you're saying is going to get themselves suicide ganked well before rats show up for them, assuming they ever fly in highsec anyway.


No it can affect anyone with a bounty on them.

It would simply be that your chances of an NPC bounty hunter showing up for you are significantly lower if you have just a small bounty on your head. Again there would be a variety of factors that go into the calculation as to the odds of your being confronted by an NPC bounty hunter, and how tough those bounty hunters may be. However, even if you have a 100,000 ISK bounty on your head, there will STILL be a very tiny chance that an ambitious NPC bounty hunter may show up while your in 0.9 space to collect on you. And a very small chance that the bounty hunter will be a challenging (even deadly) fight.

Those in the Top 10 (or two dozen) would find themselves being harassed by Elite NPC bounty hunters pretty relentlessly, until their bounty is reduced.

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