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Jah Banton
Freelancers Syndicate Inc
#1 - 2015-12-03 08:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jah Banton
learned from my mistake
Starrakatt
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#2 - 2015-12-03 08:25:53 UTC
Why did you undock everything you own(ed) in a single anti-tanked Itty 5?

Join Celtic Anarchy!

Sneaky bastard.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3 - 2015-12-03 08:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
He wasn't a griefer. He was just a ganker. Part of the game.

There's no insurance payout for gankers.

You have 30 seconds invulnerable after undocking if you do nothing. So in situations where there is some lag and your bookmarks don't appear immediately, if you can't see them by right clicking in space either, then wait a few seconds and then warp out.
MiSANTHR0PE
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-12-03 08:41:58 UTC
Its not really griefing though is it.

You're carrying 1.5 bil worth of gear in a little 2 mil isk ship, you could have made 3 or 4 trips and used tank mods in the lows and rigs, or just made a courier contract with collateral to cover it all and let it be someones else's problem.

And I'm pretty sure gankers don't get insurance when blown up by concord.

Still, on the plus side, at least you had some mods fitted on the second ship, so you're getting there, slowly ....

Caspar Klatsche
sChokokiNderlAdE GmbH
#5 - 2015-12-03 08:44:57 UTC
Jah Banton wrote:
I quit eve 3 years ago after I saw months of work blow up in a couple of seconds (kill https://zkillboard.com/kill/22726409/).

This month I decided to resub and was having a total blast. Ended up resubbing all my 3 accounts and spend a lot of time doing logistics to get all my stuff operational again. Spent the last 2 weeks working very hard to get my manufacturing up and running. Unfortunately when I exited jita last night with 1.5bil in secure containers, my insta warpout bookmarks didnt apear (bug?) and I was griefed in a matter of seconds. Could not redock and alternative warpout was nowhere near fast enough. Nothing I could do about it. The bookmarks reappeared in the menu after 5 seconds. I was rightclicking in empty sapce, I did get the usual stargate, planets etc menu.

kill: https://zkillboard.com/kill/50481604/ (bpcs are worth 500mil)

I cancelled the subscription of my 3 accounts, all my hard work, goals and savings were blown up by yet another griefer in an insured tornado. CCP probably wont care about the loss of 3 subscription, but this plague of high sec griefing is really a big problem for resubscribers and especially for people new to the game. Seeing all your hard work blowing up in high sec while there is nothing you can do about it, just passing trough and some griefer decides to rob you of the wonderfull experience that can be EVE.How is this a positive element in EVE gameplay? I really wonder how many los subscriptions this has caused over the years.

So many hindering things for new players have been fix and streamlined over the years (learning skills etc), but a single griefer in an insured tornado can still obliterate any cruiser sized transport at will. There are so many ways to fix this: no insurance when killed by concord, have concord "seize" the cargo of ships killed at stations/gates in very highsec systems, give a locking time penalty for ships leaving highsec stations etc.

TLDR: quit 3 years ago due to griefers. Came back to be faced with the identical situation after 2 weeks. No fixes from CCP for (new player) highsec griefing.

Please keep the discussion serious about adressing griefing & new players.


First off, you aren't a new player.. therefor you should have known it better.

Then, while undocking with that much value in Jita is a death wish anyway.. what did you think would happen ? Everyone waving and wishing you a nice trip ?

Also, why should CCP change a legal game mechanic ?

And last a pro tip: Given the amount, you could easily made 1-2 courier contracts with Red Frog or PushX and had it done right.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#6 - 2015-12-03 08:46:43 UTC
I'm sorry to this, it feels a little like putting the boot in and leaves me wondering about Stockholm Syndrome (which I'm sure someone will reference with a wikipedia link telling me that it doesn't mean what I think it means)...

Your ship choice was poor; it was minimally tanked and filled to a value far in excess of the gank-cost, even accounting for the loot fairy.
You seemed to be following a myth and relying on containers to hide your cargo - which doesn't work... Or perhaps you were trying to expand your cargo further...
You flew what it appears you could not afford to lose...

You could have chosen the tanky hauler, even if you don't have access to the DSTs, filled it with tank mods and shipped things (in many more trips) to Perimeter (or whichever system worked for your route) or even to another station in Jita - it might not be perfect but it would at least have reduced your risk.
You could have handed the risk to others with a courier contract, at least ensuring that you'd have recieved some cash if you hadn't got your load.


Quote:
So many hindering things for new players have been fix and streamlined over the years (learning skills etc), but a single griefer in an insured tornado can still obliterate any cruiser sized transport at will. There are so many ways to fix this: no insurance when killed by concord,

I'm pretty sure that's already a thing... or did I dream it?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#7 - 2015-12-03 08:48:31 UTC
Why are you blaming the game and its players for your continued stupidity?
Wanda Fayne
#8 - 2015-12-03 08:50:23 UTC
Can I have your...
oh wait...
nevermind.

Best of luck in the eve-afterlife

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-12-03 08:55:40 UTC
Always have the people and places window (hint: places is where your BMs are) open when you undock.

Don't haul valuable **** in an Itty 5. Seriously, don't.



Jah Banton wrote:
So many hindering things for new players have been fix and streamlined over the years (learning skills etc), but a single griefer in an insured tornado can still obliterate any cruiser sized transport at will. There are so many ways to fix this: no insurance when killed by concord, have concord "seize" the cargo of ships killed at stations/gates in very highsec systems, give a locking time penalty for ships leaving highsec stations etc.


You're coming from the other end of this, are unhappy with it, and are assuming that this isn't a legitimate way for them to play.

News flash: it is.

Learn to protect your stuff, mitigate your risks, and these things won't worry you much, or ever again.

I believe there is a post with CCP Falcon describing EVE, and how to play it (broadly speaking) floating around somewhere. In it, he too makes it explicitly clear that it is up to you to protect your stuff in New Eden, not them.

Grrr.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-12-03 09:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
So, let me see if I've got this all down.

Some time back, you put all of your stuff into an untanked hauler and were promptly blown up, so you quit.

Now you've returned, stubbornly refused to learn from that experience, and have done it again with similar results.

Finally, this is all someone else's fault.


Quote:
There are so many ways to fix this


Tell me about it. You could try learning, for instance.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
JanSVK
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-12-03 09:10:13 UTC
I understad your frustration. Same thing has happened to me and because of that I had a 2 year break from EVE.

There are some important things you need to realize.

1, CCP wants this mechanic. Risk vs reward they call it. So don't expect any major changes in this direction. There are too many lols and hypes around ridiculous HS kill mails.

2, EVE is based on PVP in every aspect. No matter what you do there is always a way or option that you get into PVP with you having basically no choice to avoid it.

3, EVE has a very steep learning curve and a very high skill ceiling. Which means you are constantly in competition with these experienced, clever and greafing players whose entire gameplay is to take your stuff, find new ways how to take your stuff and then publicly laugh at you.

4, You need to realize all of this and then determine if this really is the game for you.

Now some tips for you

1, Be more clever than the greafers.
2, Use the existing in game mechanics to help you stay alive.
3, Murphy's_law works. Count with it.
4, In a T1 hauler never haul more than 100 mil in HS. T1 hauler with 1,5b in cargo is a PRIME target for gankers and THEY WILL DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO KILL YOU!!
5, Use a transport service (red frog) or hauling contract.
6, Use a t2 transport. Blockade runner have cargo scanner immunity, Transport ships are much much tougher. Use mwd cloak trick.
7, split your cargo into smaller packages.
8, haul the BPs in an inty or yacht.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#12 - 2015-12-03 09:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Jah Banton wrote:

I cancelled the subscription of my 3 accounts, all my hard work, goals and savings were blown up by yet another griefer in an insured tornado. CCP probably wont care about the loss of 3 subscription, but this plague of high sec griefing is really a big problem for resubscribers and especially for people new to the game. Seeing all your hard work blowing up in high sec while there is nothing you can do about it, just passing trough and some griefer decides to rob you of the wonderfull experience that can be EVE.How is this a positive element in EVE gameplay? I really wonder how many los subscriptions this has caused over the years.
And I wonder how many subscriptions the thrill of perma-loss, and the complex player-driven economy continual destruction allows, have kept?

Of course there is not "nothing you can do about it". Protecting yourself is easily possible in highsec. You failed to do it correctly which sucks, but we all make mistakes and learn from them. Even the best of us have some bad luck from time-to-time with server/UI hiccups or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time and have our stuff explode. However, through a serious of bad choices which you clearly knew better of since you quit before for the same reason, you managed to lose far more than was necessary. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.

Bottom line: Eve is probably not your game. If you cannot handle the loss of imaginary space pixels, then it is best you move on. Highsec ganking is not "griefing" but intended game play. If you are not willing to accept the risks and consequences of that game play, then find a game where you cannot lose your stuff and you can grind resources and build away, free of the worry of losing your progress or having to spend time/effort on your defense. Personally though, I find the risk and (quasi-)real struggle for resources which gives real value to resources and industry in this game the major draw for me, so I would kindly ask you to stop asking CCP to take away my game just to make you happy.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#13 - 2015-12-03 11:38:28 UTC
"Jah" does provide after all, it seems

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Iain Cariaba
#14 - 2015-12-03 12:18:42 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
And I wonder how many subscriptions the thrill of perma-loss, and the complex player-driven economy continual destruction allows, have kept?

Well, I've got 3 active right now, and the risk of perma-loss is one of the main reasons I play EvE.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-12-03 12:30:14 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
You have 30 seconds invulnerable after undocking if you do nothing. So in situations where there is some lag and your bookmarks don't appear immediately, if you can't see them by right clicking in space either, then wait a few seconds and then warp out.

Just for some people who may not know this, issuing a stop order (ctrl+space by default) doesn't count as "doing something". Unless you are leaving either:

- station you don't have docking rights for;
- so-called "kickout station" with ship undock located outside of docking range bubble

you can stop, look around and re-dock immediately if you need.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Rykuss
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2015-12-03 13:40:13 UTC
Jah Banton wrote:
learned from my mistake


Been there, done that. Good times, good times.

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#17 - 2015-12-03 20:58:02 UTC
My stuff senses are tingling. There is yet belongings to be had. Do the right thing for you and your stuff, and reassign thier ownership to yours truly.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Asia Leigh
Kenshin Industries.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#18 - 2015-12-03 21:33:29 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
My stuff senses are tingling. There is yet belongings to be had. Do the right thing for you and your stuff, and reassign thier ownership to yours truly.



What stuff does he have left over if he lost it all?
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#19 - 2015-12-03 21:48:31 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
My stuff senses are tingling. There is yet belongings to be had. Do the right thing for you and your stuff, and reassign thier ownership to yours truly.

What stuff does he have left over if he lost it all?


Hmm.. 3 accounts worth of ships and manufacturing goods didnt die in that itty5. There are still at least probably 3 barges/exhumers, probably another couple of haulers, at least 1 operational POS with mods, and ill guess probably a large pile of minerals somewhere nested in yet another pile of other misc goods.

There is always more stuff. No one who says so ever really puts ALL of their stuff in one ship, thats just something people say in order to illicit sympathy, donations and charity from the readers.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?