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Should I go for cruisers?
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Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2015-12-02 17:44:45 UTC
False advertising is looked down upon. If your corp isn't actually a Merc corp, people will mess with it if they find out. Same with people who name their corp "Sooper duper elite Pirates of evil death and Darkness!!11!!" but mine all day everyday and don't fight back (happens alarmingly often).

Grrr.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#22 - 2015-12-02 18:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lulu Lunette
The corps that scream "wardec me" are the ones that are new player friendly and do literally everything from mining to pvp.

Quote:
-Mining boosts
-Fleet ops
-missions
-pvp
-mining fleets


They usually have a description like that haha

Edit: oh yeah this is a cruiser thread. Ofc you should go for Cruisers, probably the widest amount of what you can do in terms of PVP and PVE.

@lunettelulu7
Francis Raven
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#23 - 2015-12-02 18:21:26 UTC
Definitely go Cruisers

Once you finish with those, go Battlecruisers for Level 3 missions.

At that point, you should be making OK isk to swing back and improve on frigates, destroyers and cruisers if you wish. The T2 variants of those are a lot of fun, and will cover you for every aspect of eve except industry/hauling.

- PVP (T2/Pirate Frigates, Destroyers, T2/T3 Cruisers)
- PVE (T2/T3 Cruisers, Destroyers)
- Exploration (Stratios, SOE Faction Cruiser)

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#24 - 2015-12-02 18:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Qwelas Tagus wrote:
I am focusing on doing security missions at the moment I do missions lvl1, people also say that missions lvl2 can be hard for a destroyer, should I aim to buy a cruiser our what should I do to for being able to do higher lvl agents missions?

Nearly all level 2 missions can be done in a T1 destroyer.

These missions are mostly vs. NPC frigates, with the occasional cruiser, which isn't difficult.

Example of one that can't easily be done in a T1 destroyer: Mission Of Mercy, where you face several cruisers at once. I did it in a T1 destroyer as a challenge, but it was so ridiculously hard that it was insanity... and I'm also stubborn. I've also lost a short-range cruiser (autocannon Rupture) to that mission, but it is trivial with long-range weapons (I switched to artillery - and liked it so much I didn't go back to autocannons).

A cruiser will easily do level 2 missions, to the point where you might find them boring. You might consider only using a cruiser for the tough ones you have difficulties with.

I do nearly all level 3 missions using a T2 Assault Frigate (Blaster Harpy), which I've been enjoying for over 3 years now. The only level 3 I don't use it for, is one with both stasis towers and energy neutralizing tower; I can handle either one, but not both. For that mission, I use a battlecruiser (Armor artillery Hurricane) ... which uses the same fittings as a cruiser.

Battlecruisers can do all level 4 missions with care, and that's what I did before getting a battleship. [Of course, T3 cruisers can also easily do level 4 missions.]

The majority of all ships available in EVE are small-sized and medium-sized hulls. Some people never train for anything else.

EDIT: Note that you only ever have to do ONE level 1 mission, if you train Connections 3.
Memphis Baas
#25 - 2015-12-02 22:06:02 UTC
My previous post is not edited, and I never said train cruisers "specifically for level 2 missions."

But, It will take a while to train the support and weapon skills to fly that cruiser properly and apply it to level 3 missions; so level 2 missions may be easy in a cruiser... but not if you've fitted the wrong tank or, even worse, both shield and armor tanks, or the wrong resists, or the wrong weapons, or any number of mistakes.

Once he learns, he can apply the cruiser to PVP, PVE, whatever.

My point was that I believe a cruiser to be a better choice than trying to limit to frigates (and train T2 frigates) at this particular stage in his career. Even if T2 frigates are a goal, I still think it's worth training cruiser just to have something to compare the frigates to.

In any case, regarding your corp name MERCS, this is a PVP game, and people like to declare war and shoot war targets, A LOT, in this game. If you're mercenaries, you're basically declaring that you'll have some bravery and will fight back, and won't hide in station like all the other cowardly industrialists and miners. PVP'ers are sick and tired of people hiding in station from them, so they'll jump at the chance to declare war on your corporation, and get some good fights. Because you'll fight back, right?

So train that cruiser and those frigates for PVP, cause it's coming to you.

Make sure you can fit the critical PVP modules (warp disruptor, webifier, microwarpdrive) and useful PVP modules (energy neutralizers, ECM jammers, tracking disruptors, capacitor booster) and build up a supply of the frigate ships you're flying, say 5-10 already fitted for war. And get with your corp buddies and plan what you're going to do if attacked; you have to coordinate, you have to scout for enemies, and you need to have fun fights.

You'll probably never look back to PVE after a few good fights.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-12-02 22:45:40 UTC
Seriously ?

Corp name .... Bla bla bla ... WarDec .... Bla bla bla .... PvP ...... Bla bla bla .....

Come on, just stay on topic and stop making excuses for attacking newbs.


To the OP,

I agree with what Memphis Baas posted, not sure where all the other people are getting there info from.

This game has a basic standard set for ship hull class advancement per mission level :

Level 1 = Frigate or Destroyer
Level 2 = Cruiser
Level 3 = Battlecruiser
Level 4 = Battleship
Level 5 = Carrier or small Fleet with Logistics

Like I said, this is a basic guide for T1 ship class which allows training up ship and support skills without being hard pressed to complete the missions. Of course other ship hull classes can be used to complete missions but those ship and support skills should be trained up first to accomplish that relatively easy.

For example - Tech 2 Assault Frigates can easily complete level 4 combat missions when their ship and support skills are all trained up.

Anyway, good luck to you.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-12-02 22:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
In summary:

  1. Frigates
    2. There are a huge range of T1/faction/pirate/T2 options but training all of them will take a long while.

    PVE
    - good for level I missions
    - will do most level 2 once skills are up
    - not generally used for level 3 missions but Assault Frigates can do them
    - essential for level 4 burners. Some people do normal 4s in fleets of Assault Frigates or bombers just for giggles
    - specialised frigates are used a lot for exploration, losec ratting etc
    PVP
    - frigates are everywhere in PVP


  2. Destroyers
    3. Use Frigate sized weapons. More limited scope for further training though that is gradually changing. Basically T1 is where you will be focusing. The current T2 Dessies are Dictors for bubbling in null (though the new T2 EWAR dessies are coming out soon) Also the T3 are starting to see a lot of use.

    PVE
    - wipe the floor with level I missions
    - optimal for level 2
    - not generally used for level 3 missions
    - not generally used for level 4 missions
    PVP
    - Dictors are a thing in null fleets
    - the new T3s like the Sivipul are starting to see some use
    - Thashers and Catalysts are common suicide gank boats


  3. Cruisers
    4. Like Frigates, the cruisers have an extensive range of T1/Faction/Pirate/T2/T3 ships available. Will take a long while to train all of them. Use same weapons as a Battlecruiser.

    PVE
    - Can run level 1 missions but not optimal
    - will cruise through level 2 missions
    - cruisers like the Gila Ishtar and Tengu are common in level 3 missions
    - level 4 base burners are done with cruisers. Some people occasionally run normal IVs in specialised cruisers like Ishtar or Tengu but they are not ideal for the job
    - used a lot for lowsec roams, ratting, anoms, wormhole work
    PVP
    - common in small gangs
    - solo losec roams are sometimes a thing
    - Drone Vexor seems popular as a suicide gank boat in some circles
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2015-12-02 23:01:49 UTC
Each skill level of any skill is 5 times a long to train as the previous. So level 3 and even level 4 skills typically don't take all that long. Also there are lots of generic or support skills that you will need to train regardless of what you fly. Therefore I tell most new players to just train stuff up and try it. Large ships and weapons start to become a bit of a commitment. But if you stick to medium and small you should be fine to branch out.

Everyone is different and everyone will adapt a different playstyle. So I say train up various races and their weapons to 3. Go frig then dessie then cruiser and once you've tried it all out you'll have a better idea what direction that you want to head in.

LT;dr
If you don't know what you want to train then you probably should not be focusing much. Stay broad and general until you figure out what you like.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Qwelas Tagus
Akimamur Industries
Incorporeal Conglomerate Society
#29 - 2015-12-02 23:55:46 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
In summary:

  1. Frigates
    2. There are a huge range of T1/faction/pirate/T2 options but training all of them will take a long while.

    PVE
    - good for level I missions
    - will do most level 2 once skills are up
    - not generally used for level 3 missions but Assault Frigates can do them
    - essential for level 4 burners. Some people do normal 4s in fleets of Assault Frigates or bombers just for giggles
    - specialised frigates are used a lot for exploration, losec ratting etc
    PVP
    - frigates are everywhere in PVP


  2. Destroyers
    3. Use Frigate sized weapons. More limited scope for further training though that is gradually changing. Basically T1 is where you will be focusing. The current T2 Dessies are Dictors for bubbling in null (though the new T2 EWAR dessies are coming out soon) Also the T3 are starting to see a lot of use.

    PVE
    - wipe the floor with level I missions
    - optimal for level 2
    - not generally used for level 3 missions
    - not generally used for level 4 missions
    PVP
    - Dictors are a thing in null fleets
    - the new T3s like the Sivipul are starting to see some use
    - Thashers and Catalysts are common suicide gank boats


  3. Cruisers
    4. Like Frigates, the cruisers have an extensive range of T1/Faction/Pirate/T2/T3 ships available. Will take a long while to train all of them. Use same weapons as a Battlecruiser.

    PVE
    - Can run level 1 missions but not optimal
    - will cruise through level 2 missions
    - cruisers like the Gila Ishtar and Tengu are common in level 3 missions
    - level 4 base burners are done with cruisers. Some people occasionally run normal IVs in specialised cruisers like Ishtar or Tengu but they are not ideal for the job
    - used a lot for lowsec roams, ratting, anoms, wormhole work
    PVP
    - common in small gangs
    - solo losec roams are sometimes a thing
    - Drone Vexor seems popular as a suicide gank boat in some circles




Very usefull thanks for the advice Big smile

Thanks to everyone that is helping me understanding the game.

Also I dont have English as my main language so sorry my "Broken English".
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#30 - 2015-12-03 00:07:48 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Seriously ?

Corp name .... Bla bla bla ... WarDec .... Bla bla bla .... PvP ...... Bla bla bla .....

Come on, just stay on topic and stop making excuses for attacking newbs.


DMC

Ah here, I wasn't threatening him , just informing him that his Corp looks like jailbait.

However , point taken.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#31 - 2015-12-03 02:44:44 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
To the OP,

I agree with what Memphis Baas posted, not sure where all the other people are getting there info from.

This game has a basic standard set for ship hull class advancement per mission level :

Level 1 = Frigate or Destroyer
Level 2 = Cruiser
Level 3 = Battlecruiser
Level 4 = Battleship
Level 5 = Carrier or small Fleet with Logistics

Like I said, this is a basic guide for T1 ship class which allows training up ship and support skills without being hard pressed to complete the missions. Of course other ship hull classes can be used to complete missions but those ship and support skills should be trained up first to accomplish that relatively easy.

For example - Tech 2 Assault Frigates can easily complete level 4 combat missions when their ship and support skills are all trained up.

Anyway, good luck to you.w


DMC

I agree with that classification. It might help you learn certain parts of the game or even be a bit of fun to use a lower class ship, but when it comes to missions I much prefer (and recommend) overkill [:tisted]

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#32 - 2015-12-03 03:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mephiztopheleze
My belated $0.02: Welcome To EVE!

The Gallente drone boat cruisers are in a pretty good spot.

A Vexor could probably cope with lvl3 missions and isn't a terribly long train. Even better would be a Vexor Navy Issue (although they're a little pricey for a newbro).

Drones V, Light/Medium/Heavy Drones ~II-IV, Drone Interfacing/Navigation/Sharpshooting/Durability/Avionics ~II-III, Gallente Cruiser III, Afterburner III-IV, Fuel Conservation III-IV, Shield Upgrades/Operation/Management II, Weapons Upgrades I (IV is worth getting ASAP), Energy Grid Upgrades II Jury Rigging I, Shield Rigging I and you'll be pretty well set for most PvE activities in that hull.

Here's a fit I kludged together in EFT for you. I've NOT used this myself, but I use a very similar fit on a Vexor Navy Issue to great effect. Capacitor will last ~12m with the very basic skills listed above. Some time in the Capacitor skills under Engineering (except Emission Systems) will help a lot. Pulse the afterburner and you'll stay with plenty of cap. Drone Control Range is ~30km. So orbit baddies at ~20-25 (or train more Drone Avionics). With slightly better skills you'll be able to fit a Drone Link Augmentor in a high slot for another 20km of drone range.

Costs about ISK14m.

[Vexor, NewBro PvE]
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger
100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin I x1
Hammerhead I x2
Ogre I x2

Tailor the Drones to the resist holes of the mission rats.

Warp in, orbit the baddy @ 25km, drop drones, kill stuff, retrieve loot, profit?

Here's a T1 fit VNI along the same lines. Just like the Vexor, only better and around 6x the price at a cool ~ISK85m:

[Vexor Navy Issue, Rat Fleet VNI T1 fit]
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System

Drone Navigation Computer I
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner

Drone Link Augmentor I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Caldari Navy Wasp x5

Again, tailor your drones to the mission. Faction drones aren't *that* expensive and offer a solid upgrade over basic T1 drones, Weapons Upgrades IV is highly recommended to use tech II Drone Damage Amps.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Velarra
#33 - 2015-12-03 14:00:03 UTC
This thread answers and provides quite a bit of good information if you're set on a combat oriented career. However there is one line of 'industrial' ships you might want to look into.

Any of the ships that can be used for hauling, "Industrials" such as the Badger on up to the "Transport Ships" if not necessarily Freighters, can be very useful for a combat pilot. Another diversion depending on your midterm career path would be the Orca due to its ability to transport other ships. As a combat pilot the ability to move around large quantities of supplies - ammo, modules, other ships...can be just as important as how potent your fighting ships are.

In any case, as a combat pilot don't forget about logistics - the ability to move things around and get your supplies where you want them rather they rely on someone else for the assistance.
Memphis Baas
#34 - 2015-12-03 14:46:06 UTC
Absolutely agree; every pilot should train 1 industrial... there's so much loot and so much junk in this game, and all of it needs to be transported to the market hubs (or to a nearby station). The stats for an industrial only show 5000 m3 cargo space, but once you train the industrial ship skill and fit all the low slots with Expanded Cargohold II's, that can get to 15,000-20,000, maybe even more with cargo rigs.

The industrial ship will also teach you EVE like nothing else:

- you learn about suicide-ganks very fast
- you learn what your true attitude is towards this game and towards losing a ship
- you learn valuable lessons about carrying expensive cargo in slow, undefended ships
- you learn about the combat / engagement rules and combat flags in high-sec
- you learn what's worth looting and what's for recycling / reprocessing
- you may learn to trade effectively
Velarra
#35 - 2015-12-03 14:50:14 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
with Expanded Cargohold II's, that can get to 15,000-20,000, maybe even more with cargo rigs.


Pirate
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#36 - 2015-12-03 15:19:03 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
T3 destroyers can do up to lvl 3's and are both outrageous fun to fly and horrifically op (if you believe what people say about them)

Broject wrote:
Lvl2s aren't hard to do in a destroyer, even in the early days. What lacks is experience to do them.

Just a personal observation on these types of comments.
I can run most level 3's in a faction frigate and even in some T1 frigates and I never have any problems with them. HOWEVER the character I use has nearly 100 million skill points and I have been doing them for years. So when a veteran player says yes you can do something be sure to account for the skills differences both character and personal that are often the reason why they can and you may not be able to. A quick way to check the character skills side and check out if you can afford those fits(ISK) is to ask for the fits they fly and then put those into a fit program and see if your character has the skills to fly those ship / fits. The only way to test the personal side of the skills is go try and see what happens.
And so here are the ones I use, not the only possible fits nor do I claim these are the best, these are just what I enjoy flying.
Another note, while I can run most level 3's in both these it is not something I normally do simply because of the time required to complete them because of lower DPS.

[Federation Navy Comet] - faction frigate

2x Light Neutron Blaster II (Antimatter Charge S)

2x Cap Recharger II
1MN Afterburner II

Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Nanobot Accelerator II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

3x Hobgoblin II

[Tristan]

Small Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
1MN Afterburner II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S

Small Nanobot Accelerator II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x5

[Tristan, Mission]

Small Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
1MN Afterburner II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S

Small Nanobot Accelerator II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x5

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
That said cruisers are the workhorses of eve and have the wider variety of roles so you're probably going to get the most mileage out of that hull class.

Excellent advice.
Erin Oswell
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#37 - 2015-12-03 17:49:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Erin Oswell
I would highly recommend a Caracal for low level mission running. You can get one fully fitted for around 20m including hull cost. The only downside is that to be effective you do need the missile support skills, since the Caracal is a missile boat. With a good tank though you'll also be able to manage 3/10 DED's, though I wouldn't recommend 4/10's as it'll be painfully slow with T1 shield & missile modules.

Rules of Acquisition #13: "Anything worth doing is worth doing for money"
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#38 - 2015-12-03 23:39:33 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:

[Vexor, NewBro PvE]
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Mark I Compact Power Diagnostic System
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Eutectic Compact Cap Recharger
100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin I x1
Hammerhead I x2
Ogre I x2.


Overall I agree, although I feel that typically the 100mn ab cruisers are there so you can tank battleship rats. for missions and level appropriate content so likely lv2 or 3 missions I'd just stick to a 10mn ab or a 50mn mwd. Should also let you fit a bit more utility instead of cap/pg mods. A gun or two in the highs for aggro. a drone nav comp in the mids for more drone speed. drone tracking enhancers in the lows, heavies can have trouble hitting small targets, although there are some interesting cases where they hit very well.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#39 - 2015-12-04 02:42:42 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


Overall I agree, although I feel that typically the 100mn ab cruisers are there so you can tank battleship rats. for missions and level appropriate content so likely lv2 or 3 missions I'd just stick to a 10mn ab or a 50mn mwd. Should also let you fit a bit more utility instead of cap/pg mods. A gun or two in the highs for aggro. a drone nav comp in the mids for more drone speed. drone tracking enhancers in the lows, heavies can have trouble hitting small targets, although there are some interesting cases where they hit very well.


^
|
Listen to this guy, not me.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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