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AFs and Faction frigates offer different advantages/disadvantages.

Destoyers/Interdictors > AFs
For Interdictors, they need balancing to begin with but I can assure you that they are still very capable of shredding AFs.

As for the Hawk, I'm not sure what planet you're living on where the Hawk is ridiculous.
If you want to dump billions into it tank like a monster, go right ahead. You're still not invulnerable, not by a long shot.
Yes rockets are decent now, but not on the Hawk. Try putting an AB Hawk against an AB Ishkur right now on TQ and see how far you get without a web or tank. Or maybe a Daredevil or Dramiel or Worm.

Are swarms of them going to shred a single target? Yes.
Are swarms of them capable of killing targets on TQ right now? Yes.

So feel free to flesh out your reasoning behind slots balancing breaking.
It's one thing to say that's what will happen, and it's something else entirely to actually prove it.
My experience with them on sisi is that they are just fine. They are still quite killable by BCs & Cruisers.

I'll be completely honest and say that I never suggested adding more slots, but now they are here and they aren't broken.

Yes, judging everything off sisi is not the best method.
Yes, a large number of people there can't tell their face from their ass.
The solution there is to get people testing the ships. TRY and break them. That's the whole point of testing.
There's no reason complaining about the quality of testers when the so-called pros are just talking smack from the sidelines without pitching in.

It doesn't take much to find something broken or unsavory in a change being tested.
Remember when the Deimos had 4 mids? That didn't last very long (thank god).
Heck, the AB bonus didnt last long because they were so obviously overpowering.
SO FAR nothing game breaking has been revealed with these changes. And changing the pvp landscape does not count has *game breaking* when said changes are simply countered.

In regard to rockets again, I never said they are crap.
On TQ, the vengeance is the better ship not because of it's tank, but because you can apply your tank and dps without sacrifice. The Hawk cannot. And as for dual webs and such, yes there are some niche fits that work in particular situations.
But you can't base that type of reasoning for blasting the extra slot. A huge number of ships can destroy that, including the new AFs.

Some fits won't be ideal anymore, so new ones will be made and some will be better than others.
That's the way it goes.

edit: double web talos hurts like a *****

It's a double-edged sword. I'm not saying everyone is bad, but you have to work with the assumption.

If a monkey can slap together a ship and be nigh-immune to half the battlefield, then there is a problem (AB bonus).
That problem has yet to rear its head on sisi, even with all the changes.

Dude... are you surprised? He's insulted just about everyone here throughout the entire thread.

When I read his posts I hear them in Eric Cartman's voice in my head.

Small but important part.

You can't, CAN NOT, have a negative bonus. A 5% bonus to rate of fire is a 5% reduction in cycle time. A -5% bonus, is a penalty. So, effectively you're saying a 5% penalty per level to launcher rate of fire.

CCP, please train English to V.

25% bonus to AF is enough. In fact, all AF add 25% sounds good.

By Interdictor he meant Sabre, as thats the only one that puts out any reasonable amount of damage.

I, too, look forward to flying the new mini-Blackbird/assault Keres.

The Role Bonus to MWD is very poor.


It's usage for MWDs would only be used a minority of the time, not really a "defining element" or a ROLE Bonus.


The Role Bonus would be used to burn in really quickly to get the MWD turned off. Also, it piggy backs on the INTERCEPTOR bonus which is already being used MORE EFFECTIVELY than an AF bonus.


Assault Frigates shouldn't be "more interceptors" which is all this bonus will do. This bonus will only promote longer sniper fit Assault Frigate fits, rather than the close range support roles that they are currently the best at doing. Also, they are NEVER going to be as effective as Snipers across the board as ANY OTHER larger ship, including the Heavy Kiters such as the Vagabond - which IRONICALLY are the ONLY SHIPS this bonus really helps with, by being able to MWD into heavy kiter range more effectively to gain tackle, these ships are the only ships that would be effective against those kiters, again - a minority usage scenario.


The MWD Bonus is totally ineffectual as a ROLE BONUS. It doesn't DEFINE the role of an Assault Frigate anymore than any other ship. Unless of course you expect them to all become 20+km snipers (which other ships will and can do better in general)


THE MOST Dangerous Thing to an Assault Frigate are Neutralizers. Across the board, it doesn't matter what ship you're up against, the Neutralizer will disable an Assault Frigate IMMEDIATELY. So it doesn't matter if you can MWD or not - you're going to get it disabled because most ships fit neutralizers just to kill small ships easily!


I don't care what you think the Role Bonus will successfully accomplish - when you have 50 ships in Null Sec trying to shoot at you with a 50% bloom reduction, you are DEAD. Only interceptors with their speed and superior MWD bloom reduction have a CHANCE (chance) of even making it there in time. Not to mention, any competent FC who has an assault frigate squad would never tell them "MWD those 40km to get there".

You'd send your INTERCEPTOR over (which is faster) to get into warp in position, then warp in your AF fleet into close range. Alternately - you'd use Combat Scanner Probes.


This bonus does not help define AFs.


I recommend a resistance to Webifier effectiveness, a resistance to Neutralizers - a general reduction to signature radius, regardless of MWD or not.

That's more of an ECM issue than a "lolol this ship is so strong" type of thing.
You're going to have a hard time chewing through AFs fast enough. You're really just making it easier for yourself to gank T1 frigates, which isn't a really a big deal when they already do that