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Lv4s 100-150mil/h+: Breakdown

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#321 - 2015-12-01 23:04:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is the 1st mistake. We are individual PVErs. We are talking about individual pve, not about what alliances have or do.

Looking at a group rather than the individuals that make up that group is how prejudices work. I'm not TEST Alliance, I'm one guy who likes to pew pew npcs. If you don't believe what we are saying about imbalances, you can always take a ship to null when the owners aren't there (for instance, the Detorid Region when Russians are sleep) and see for yourself.

Prejudice aside, how do you account for the fact that the constant calls for high-sec nerfing continue to come almost exclusively from players associated with the major alliances?

Quote:
I don't know why what I'm about to say next is hard to understand. WHY WOULD WE GANK OURSELVES? I know I have an incursion alt, and if you go to TVP's teamspeak and ask, lots of people will tell you "yea, I play in null, this is how I get isk".

Apparently even more elitist than I had imagined...

Quote:
The rest of this is again dripping with the types of prejudices that are the real enemy of discussion.

I've yet to hear a decent proposal for discussion.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#322 - 2015-12-01 23:10:53 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
And yet, you continue to whine.

null sec has a severe lack of content and that is something worth talking about. Press F10, and select pilots in space. I see a lot of empty wasted space. Players could be out there doing things, which creates more content as players are content for other players Pirate

if most players see that running missions in highsec is the main content worth doing... well there isn't really a point to eve any more.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#323 - 2015-12-01 23:19:55 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
null sec has a severe lack of content and that is something worth talking about. Press F10, and select pilots in space. I see a lot of empty wasted space. Players could be out there doing things, which creates more content as players are content for other players Pirate

if most players see that running missions in highsec is the main content worth doing... well there isn't really a point to eve any more.

I thought the appeal of null-sec was supposed to be player-driven content? Is it possible that null-sec in fact deserves the reputation and fate that befell it? Blue donuts, rental and moon goo empires, supercapital proliferation... There's one alliance in particular that seems to serve no purpose other than to further a real-world media empire and several others that would appear to be operated as thinly-veiled RMT schemes.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#324 - 2015-12-01 23:34:48 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

I thought the appeal of null-sec was supposed to be player-driven content? Is it possible that null-sec in fact deserves the reputation and fate that befell it? Blue donuts, rental and moon goo empires, supercapital proliferation... There's one alliance in particular that seems to serve no purpose other than to further a real-world media empire and several others that would appear to be operated as thinly-veiled RMT schemes.


You can only see so much as an outsider looking in, you should stick to your strengths, pubbie


@JerryTPepridge
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#325 - 2015-12-01 23:35:59 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
And yet, you continue to whine.

null sec has a severe lack of content and that is something worth talking about. Press F10, and select pilots in space. I see a lot of empty wasted space. Players could be out there doing things, which creates more content as players are content for other players Pirate

if most players see that running missions in highsec is the main content worth doing... well there isn't really a point to eve any more.


Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#326 - 2015-12-01 23:39:21 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
And yet, you continue to whine.

null sec has a severe lack of content and that is something worth talking about. Press F10, and select pilots in space. I see a lot of empty wasted space. Players could be out there doing things, which creates more content as players are content for other players Pirate

if most players see that running missions in highsec is the main content worth doing... well there isn't really a point to eve any more.


Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?



Keep telling yourself that, but you know it's dodging the issue. The "you just want me out of high sec" thing relies on the idea that people care about what other people do. I'm sure some do. I don't.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#327 - 2015-12-01 23:44:48 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?


If People like you want to stay in the beginner area of the game, doesn't bother me.

@JerryTPepridge
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#328 - 2015-12-02 00:17:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
And yet, you continue to whine.

null sec has a severe lack of content and that is something worth talking about. Press F10, and select pilots in space. I see a lot of empty wasted space. Players could be out there doing things, which creates more content as players are content for other players Pirate

if most players see that running missions in highsec is the main content worth doing... well there isn't really a point to eve any more.


Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?



Keep telling yourself that, but you know it's dodging the issue. The "you just want me out of high sec" thing relies on the idea that people care about what other people do. I'm sure some do. I don't.


If that were true, you wouldn't be in this thread arguing about how well some hisec missioners are making isk.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#329 - 2015-12-02 00:22:46 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
And yet, you continue to whine.

null sec has a severe lack of content and that is something worth talking about. Press F10, and select pilots in space. I see a lot of empty wasted space. Players could be out there doing things, which creates more content as players are content for other players Pirate

if most players see that running missions in highsec is the main content worth doing... well there isn't really a point to eve any more.


Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?



Keep telling yourself that, but you know it's dodging the issue. The "you just want me out of high sec" thing relies on the idea that people care about what other people do. I'm sure some do. I don't.


If that were true, you wouldn't be in this thread arguing about how well some hisec missioners are making isk.


It's like some of you like to purposely misunderstand things. When I talk about pve rewards imbalances I'm talking about things that affect me and all of us. The people doing these things aren't breaking any rules, so what they do is none of my business. Overall game mechanics are.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#330 - 2015-12-02 01:22:21 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?


If People like you want to stay in the beginner area of the game, doesn't bother me.



Great... so why post about nothing then?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#331 - 2015-12-02 01:46:01 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?


If People like you want to stay in the beginner area of the game, doesn't bother me.



Great... so why post about nothing then?


This whole thread is nothing.

3 (very clever) guys that figured out how to make bulk isk in hisec VS 1 or 2 nullsec anom farmers, who are slightly butthurt they are capping out at less isk/hour than said hisec people. its one bug nonsensical argument.

I wanted to point out that hisec is the beginner area, but a saw a chance to sledge you too, so 2 birds 1 stone etc.

@JerryTPepridge
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#332 - 2015-12-02 04:10:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

rofl, you just said you guide is a lie. Thanks.


Looks like this is what you wanted to know all along. Makes that ego of yours inflate back up again, doesn't it?

You spent all this time whining about what can be accomplish in hi-sec based on someone else's testimonies without even verifying whether the facts presented was true or not?? I don't even know what to call people like you, but you're definitely in a class all by yourself (in a unlikable way).

You're a very hard person to like Jenn, you know that. I feel so sorry for your corpmates.

So now that you've finally come to this conclusion, you can stop whatever training you're currently undergoing in preparation for hi-sec and continue on with your previous training goals in carriers for low-sec level 5 missions. And I say good riddance, I'd hate it to know that there was a whining tattle taler like you hanging around hi-sec looking to spill the beans to CCP if there was anything remotely lucrative going on down here.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#333 - 2015-12-02 04:49:33 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I thought the appeal of null-sec was supposed to be player-driven content? Is it possible that null-sec in fact deserves the reputation and fate that befell it? Blue donuts, rental and moon goo empires, supercapital proliferation... There's one alliance in particular that seems to serve no purpose other than to further a real-world media empire and several others that would appear to be operated as thinly-veiled RMT schemes.

e-peen is great and all, but it only lasts for so long. High end minerals and moon goo are nice and all, but how much content do they lead to, and how exciting are they to harvest. IMO: Mining is about on par with a screensaver, and moon mining is worse than watching paint dry on the wall. Also the whole RMT thing has been thrown at various alliances for at least as long as I've been playing (hell probably true in a bunch of cases).

and yes at the alliance level there is a lot of isk, but how much goes to supers, srp, sov bills, war chest, ect? What are their SRP terms and will they give me a plex every month? If they want me to be "self sufficient" well then whats the point of joining with them? Sounds like code for buy plex or have a highsec alt.

Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?

any source on that? Although on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if most null pilots that leave drop several highsec alts at the same time. Trading/incursion/mission/production are all pretty well done in highsec.

and imo I want players out of high, I don't want to push anyone out, I want them to look out to low/null/whs and say I want to be there and go for it. but as far as I'm concerned there just isn't any incentive to leave. I'm going to make more isk in highsec out of a few specific activities. I'd love to go join a c5-6 wh corp but for the most part I just don't have the time.

Daniela Doran wrote:
You spent all this time whining about what can be accomplish in hi-sec based on someone else's testimonies without even verifying whether the facts presented was true or not?? I don't even know what to call people like you, but you're definitely in a class all by yourself (in a unlikable way).

the guide is true, if not understated.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#334 - 2015-12-02 05:23:14 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?

any source on that?


CCP Fozzie podcast circa May/June 2015. I am not in the business of looking up the link but his statements about Null/High population are well known.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#335 - 2015-12-02 06:01:26 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:


Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Except over the past year HS population has dropped severely and NS had a small increase...

So what is the problem other than whinny Null babies? They want people out of High Sec and it is happening. Just not fast enough for them?

any source on that?


CCP Fozzie podcast circa May/June 2015. I am not in the business of looking up the link but his statements about Null/High population are well known.

found a graph. thanks google http://evenews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/demo-players-hisec.jpg

a bit old, but I don't think I can see anything that says severe. 75% +/- a few percentage points over the roughly 2 years seems pretty constant. although may/june would be newer than that graph.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#336 - 2015-12-02 06:40:57 UTC
I'm curious how many of the active high-sec players are null-sec alts...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#337 - 2015-12-02 06:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Getting back to the original topic, I made 150-million ISK in just over an hour this evening. I wasn't really pushing it or focusing on micromanagement, so I suspect I could've made another 10-20 million ISK if I'd concentrated more. If I'm really feeling lazy and unmotivated, I'll average somewhere between 75-90 million ISK/hour. Strangely enough, it's the blitz missions like 'Cargo', 'Duo', 'Recon' and 'Anomaly' that actually drag averages down. To consistently get high numbers you need to capitalize on missions like 'Enemies', 'Damsel', 'Scarlet', 'Beserk', 'Attack Drones' and the 'Extravaganzas' (in addition to the occasional Zor or Storyline implants to boost ISK/hour).

Three characters seems to be the optimal number to run L4s with. I've tried five but found that my system takes a noticeable performance hit, there are a lot more failed jump gates/commands that need to be repeated and I'm not even coming close to getting a +40% increase in ISK/hour. Part of that is due to these characters being relatively low-skilled, so I'm just not getting a corresponding bump in DPS. Not that it would necessarily make too much of a difference though, as the biggest hurdles I seem to be running into are inherent limits on how much can potentially be shaved from mission transit and spawn times.

No null bears were harmed in the collection of this data...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#338 - 2015-12-02 08:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
baltec1 wrote:

Never said that. I said move the faction LP rewards to lowsec with faction ammo and capboosters staying in highsec. I also said CCP should move meta loot drops away from NPC wrecks and into the highsec LP shops. I never said remove the missions themselves. This the problem with you highsec bears, you don't read anything, you just scream we are out to get you and only you.


But this is what you really meant when you said that, isn't? What other reason would you just want the LP Store moved to low-sec when you have to run the missions in hi-sec?

Daniela Doran wrote:

Lack of foresight in full display here. Most players play in hi-sec today because they are relatively new to the experience of Eve and are not ready to take on the challenge of low sec or players who prefer casual gameplay due to lack of dedicated time.

baltec1 wrote:

We aren't talking about these people we are talking about people like me who know the mechanics inside and out. The average low skilled highsec player wont even see any change.


Yea you don't miss the opportunity to brag when you can. You've been playing Eve for 10 years compared to me only playing the game 2.5 years so I can't compete with you in regards to Eve experience. But just because you have the experience doesn't mean that players with less experience should just accept your way of viewing how things should be in Eve without even considering their opinions. You alone don't make up the player base. Regardless if you're right or wrong, if the player base doesn't accept your propose way of thinking then it shouldn't be accepted.

Daniela Doran wrote:

The only activity there is to do in hi-sec is mostly PVE, BUT do you think even this activity would be conducted if all you could make was a lousy 30 mill an hour? Hi-Sec players doing lev 4 missions should be capable of making 50-80 mill an hour per char. Anything less than this then it would start to feel like a 2nd part time job that doesn't pay enough.

baltec1 wrote:

That right there is what should be happening. You SHOULD be looking at your income and saying I want what that guy in lowsec or null is earning. This is how you incentivise people to get out there.


Wrong again. You can't forced no one to play in null sec if they don't want to. If the players who prefer to play in hi-sec cannot do what they like to do while making a decent return on their time investment then these players would quit Eve. I personally would probably try low-sec and WH space. If the risk factor vs the reward ends up being not worth it for the time I've invested then that would be it for me. Having a decent income stream in hi-sec at least provides an option. And of course null sec is completely out because of all the boot licking involved which makes it totally suck for certain individual players.

Again you display your lack of insight for what draw players to Eve and for them to keep playing it. Making Eve harsher would only lead into a decrease in player base in the long run.

Perhaps the time for dividing the servers has come since the disparity between the newer players and the olders players are causing conflict of interest clashes.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#339 - 2015-12-02 10:46:20 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:


But this is what you really meant when you said that, isn't?


No, hence why I am not asking for the removal of content from highsec.

Daniela Doran wrote:


Yea you don't miss the opportunity to brag when you can. You've been playing Eve for 10 years compared to me only playing the game 2.5 years so I can't compete with you in regards to Eve experience. But just because you have the experience doesn't mean that players with less experience should just accept your way of viewing how things should be in Eve without even considering their opinions. You alone don't make up the player base. Regardless if you're right or wrong, if the player base doesn't accept your propose way of thinking then it shouldn't be accepted.


2.5 years is also far from new. And yes, if you don't have the experience you don't exactly have any say in the subject because you don't have the knowledge.

Daniela Doran wrote:


Wrong again. You can't forced no one to play in null sec if they don't want to.


Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. If you don't want to leave the safety of highsec you don't have to, just don't expect to be earing as much as people who do leave and take on that extra effort and risk.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#340 - 2015-12-02 11:09:14 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Getting back to the original topic, I made 150-million ISK in just over an hour this evening. I wasn't really pushing it or focusing on micromanagement, so I suspect I could've made another 10-20 million ISK if I'd concentrated more. If I'm really feeling lazy and unmotivated, I'll average somewhere between 75-90 million ISK/hour. Strangely enough, it's the blitz missions like 'Cargo', 'Duo', 'Recon' and 'Anomaly' that actually drag averages down. To consistently get high numbers you need to capitalize on missions like 'Enemies', 'Damsel', 'Scarlet', 'Beserk', 'Attack Drones' and the 'Extravaganzas' (in addition to the occasional Zor or Storyline implants to boost ISK/hour).

Three characters seems to be the optimal number to run L4s with. I've tried five but found that my system takes a noticeable performance hit, there are a lot more failed jump gates/commands that need to be repeated and I'm not even coming close to getting a +40% increase in ISK/hour. Part of that is due to these characters being relatively low-skilled, so I'm just not getting a corresponding bump in DPS. Not that it would necessarily make too much of a difference though, as the biggest hurdles I seem to be running into are inherent limits on how much can potentially be shaved from mission transit and spawn times.

No null bears were harmed in the collection of this data...


Do only the 1st Recon (skip the rest) and skip Cargo, Attack of Drones, Extrava. Worlds Collide.....skip all except the following

Assault
Pirate Scarlet
Blockade
Mordus Headhunters
Smash the Supplier
Worlds Collide (if bonus pays higher than 2 mill)
Recon (1st one only)
Vengeance (good meta 4 drops if bonus is higher than 2 mill)
All Team Burners (except DD & Worm if you don't have a link booster)

Optionals are Damsel and Berserk but I usually skip those.