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Why do off grid links exist?
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Markus Lionum
EVE Corporation 98582134
#161 - 2015-11-28 13:27:11 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


And apologies


Apologies accepted
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2015-11-28 16:15:57 UTC
Longdrinks wrote:
Eve was kill when i could no longer dunk on Noobs with 7k garmur in novice plex


7k is a garmur with no links/snakes, just heated MWD. Lol. Try 10k.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2015-11-28 16:26:07 UTC
Davir Sometaww wrote:
Markus Lionum wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
..............



I remember you - you doing tha ghei maulus thing for years now - you had your fun now move on or go shoot the jita monument.

Your tears fills my soul with joy.



It just encourages the N+1 blob mechanic. If you think that its going to fix anything, it is really only going to make eve worse.

You'd think after the limited information we are getting about Capitals - and how "Fozzie Sov" was a complete flop - which led to subscription account decrease - that they would take a pause before considering what the hell to do.


Yes links suck, but they enable these things to happen:

1.) Engagement against higher numbers.
2.) In FW - ability to engage in scenarios you would otherwise run away from.
3.) Incursions
4.) WH Space PVE

Ways you can counter links:
1.) Invest skill points on probing. Often times, the link ship is a more successful and juicy kill.
2.) Bring your own link ship.
3.) Tornado
4.) Many more ways!


WHY this change is stupid

1.) HELLO FALCON AND ROOK. You thought dealing with link alts were bad, wait till you see my x2 falcons/rooks.

2.) Why give "content" when I know that your blob of N+1 is greater than mine? Why fight when I know you can guard your links more. This encourages the Goonswarm 5 to 1 mentality.

3.) Well, RIP to WH fun. Already such a dwindling population, and with the new changes...not even worth the effort.






These mythical "fight the blob" encounters consist solely of linked nano kite fits killing off stragglers. Let's not deceive ourselves. And why would I bring a nado or prober? If I have to bring a second account to compete, OGB is the obvious choice. Links being killable with an outsized investment of resources doesn't make them balanced. All this has been addressed. You are not supposed to be able to hold field against a blob just because you bought a second account.

PvE will adapt. Many have argued that both incursions and high class WH's pay too much; no one will cry over shaving a bit off the top there.

Also, good luck fitting your recon into a novice plex. Best you're getting is a cloaked griffin, which shows on killmails. I predict few people will go to that much trouble and they will quickly find themselves watchlisted and blueballed. Mediums are already notorious recon traps so no surprises there. Killmails once again.

Some people are gonna have to learn to actually fly their spaceships. It's going to be glorious. Novice plexes are going to be the best places in EVE.
D0nci
Ten Below Zero
#164 - 2015-11-28 17:04:26 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
These mythical "fight the blob" encounters consist solely of linked nano kite fits killing off stragglers. Let's not deceive ourselves. And why would I bring a nado or prober? If I have to bring a second account to compete, OGB is the obvious choice. Links being killable with an outsized investment of resources doesn't make them balanced. All this has been addressed. You are not supposed to be able to hold field against a blob just because you bought a second account.

PvE will adapt. Many have argued that both incursions and high class WH's pay too much; no one will cry over shaving a bit off the top there.

Also, good luck fitting your recon into a novice plex. Best you're getting is a cloaked griffin, which shows on killmails. I predict few people will go to that much trouble and they will quickly find themselves watchlisted and blueballed. Mediums are already notorious recon traps so no surprises there. Killmails once again.

Some people are gonna have to learn to actually fly their spaceships. It's going to be glorious. Novice plexes are going to be the best places in EVE.


Dude, you are so tunnel visioned around novice/small plexes in FW territory. The game consists of so much more environments that people PVP in. Time to wake up.
Just 'cuz you are losing a 'honorable' 1v1 frig fight vs a boosted player in the smallest of FW plexes doesn't justify the removal of links, nor will the latter ad more or better content to the rest of the EVE universe. All the counter arguments made by the pro-OGB dudes here are valid and some even mentioned a number of ways to deal with boosted players.

For WH and Incursion content, I can say it won't change anything. Incursion runners use boosters for convenience/over protection, they don't really need them stat wise. Incrusion income is stupidly high because of the near 0 risk vs high reward mechanics. Buy a blinged out marauder or faction BS and you are good to go for the 100-150m/h train. What OGB removal will do for Incursions is just that they will bring 1-2 more logi in to the fleet. No issue, income will stay the same.
As for high class wormholes(C4-C5) it will hurt players running these sites but it wont cripple them. I regularly do C5 Garrisons and even some Relics with my Golem w/ Loki boost. Removal of OGB will just force me to buy X-type booster and A-type invul, and I'll have the same tank as with boost. And these mods are only marginally more expensive than my booster Loki. No issue here either 300m/h will still be a thing for the dedicated.

On the "mythical fight the blob encounters" topic: check out Mr.Hydes videos on YT or the Samurai Revenge series (a bit older). If you don't change your mind after these then I am truly sorry for you.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2015-11-28 17:15:00 UTC
Your tears are delicious.

Mr. Hyde only gets to make videos because people don't know what Bhaalgorns and Falcons are for.
D0nci
Ten Below Zero
#166 - 2015-11-28 17:41:48 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Your tears are delicious.

Mr. Hyde only gets to make videos because people don't know what Bhaalgorns and Falcons are for.

The only crying here is from you m8, rest of us are too busy making arguments.

Also NOT using neut/ecm ships on someone makes that someone not a good pilot? Much reasoning, such logic, wow.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2015-11-28 17:55:41 UTC
D0nci wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Your tears are delicious.

Mr. Hyde only gets to make videos because people don't know what Bhaalgorns and Falcons are for.

The only crying here is from you m8, rest of us are too busy making arguments.

Also NOT using neut/ecm ships on someone makes that someone not a good pilot? Much reasoning, such logic, wow.


All the arguments you made have been repeatedly disposed of.

I never said he wasn't a good pilot. But a single ship is extremely easy to shut down or force off field; staging that sort of encounter requires finding a blob that is either incompetent to the extreme or composed of the honorable warriors you so scorn.

If it's a marauder, bring geddons - anything else, bring jams. Fight over. Generating that type of fight requires finding opponents who won't immediately undock things designed to turn off your spaceship.
Davir Sometaww
Spooks On Pings
SE7EN-SINS
#168 - 2015-11-28 20:26:19 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Davir Sometaww wrote:
Markus Lionum wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
..............



I remember you - you doing tha ghei maulus thing for years now - you had your fun now move on or go shoot the jita monument.

Your tears fills my soul with joy.



It just encourages the N+1 blob mechanic. If you think that its going to fix anything, it is really only going to make eve worse.

You'd think after the limited information we are getting about Capitals - and how "Fozzie Sov" was a complete flop - which led to subscription account decrease - that they would take a pause before considering what the hell to do.


Yes links suck, but they enable these things to happen:

1.) Engagement against higher numbers.
2.) In FW - ability to engage in scenarios you would otherwise run away from.
3.) Incursions
4.) WH Space PVE

Ways you can counter links:
1.) Invest skill points on probing. Often times, the link ship is a more successful and juicy kill.
2.) Bring your own link ship.
3.) Tornado
4.) Many more ways!


WHY this change is stupid

1.) HELLO FALCON AND ROOK. You thought dealing with link alts were bad, wait till you see my x2 falcons/rooks.

2.) Why give "content" when I know that your blob of N+1 is greater than mine? Why fight when I know you can guard your links more. This encourages the Goonswarm 5 to 1 mentality.

3.) Well, RIP to WH fun. Already such a dwindling population, and with the new changes...not even worth the effort.






These mythical "fight the blob" encounters consist solely of linked nano kite fits killing off stragglers. Let's not deceive ourselves. And why would I bring a nado or prober? If I have to bring a second account to compete, OGB is the obvious choice. Links being killable with an outsized investment of resources doesn't make them balanced. All this has been addressed. You are not supposed to be able to hold field against a blob just because you bought a second account.

PvE will adapt. Many have argued that both incursions and high class WH's pay too much; no one will cry over shaving a bit off the top there.

Also, good luck fitting your recon into a novice plex. Best you're getting is a cloaked griffin, which shows on killmails. I predict few people will go to that much trouble and they will quickly find themselves watchlisted and blueballed. Mediums are already notorious recon traps so no surprises there. Killmails once again.

Some people are gonna have to learn to actually fly their spaceships. It's going to be glorious. Novice plexes are going to be the best places in EVE.




You mean its either you get a fight - or get blue balled. Crosi Wesdo explained it much better than I. Clearly you need to read his points.
ARMED1
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#169 - 2015-11-29 02:29:48 UTC
Off grid links exist bc CCP has allowed them to. I guess they see it as a net gain since a link alt means another account sub for them. Too bad they didnt see it being detrimental to the game in general - but it seems they might be fixing that soon as well. Will be fun to see the on grid booster again! I for one will enjoy being primaried and bait tanking as my fleet tears apart the enemy.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#170 - 2015-11-29 03:19:57 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Calm down everyone. Boosters are moving on grid in the fall of 2016.

t3 boosters will lose a bit more ooomph and the tankier command ships will get a leg up.



How could they? OGB should remain in Eve Foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#171 - 2015-11-30 20:34:27 UTC
Wow....the level of whine is amazing.

Are ogb used and abused.......without a doubt. Are they a cancer on the game......not at all.

The biggest cancer in eve is the requirements for n+1 and the risk averse blob mentality it creates on both sides of the blob.

Forcing links on grid will only feed this cancer. I am one of the lucky ones who's ogb frees me of this risk aversness and enables me to attempt a fight outgunned and/or out numbered, in shield or armor, kite or brawl.

I forsee the days of old when my link alt goes back to e-war support. Considering she is near perfect e-war and has EAF 5 and Recon 5 I suppose folks can have something else to whine about. On the plus side this may get me back into being an FC and bringing my own blob with me.
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#172 - 2015-11-30 22:37:00 UTC
Ogb was ********. Glad to see it go.

Pras Phil.
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#173 - 2015-11-30 22:50:18 UTC
Burtakus wrote:
Wow....the level of whine is amazing.

Are ogb used and abused.......without a doubt. Are they a cancer on the game......not at all.

The biggest cancer in eve is the requirements for n+1 and the risk averse blob mentality it creates on both sides of the blob.

Forcing links on grid will only feed this cancer. I am one of the lucky ones who's ogb frees me of this risk aversness and enables me to attempt a fight outgunned and/or out numbered, in shield or armor, kite or brawl.

I forsee the days of old when my link alt goes back to e-war support. Considering she is near perfect e-war and has EAF 5 and Recon 5 I suppose folks can have something else to whine about. On the plus side this may get me back into being an FC and bringing my own blob with me.





complains about n+1 mentality, uses n+1 mentality.

Pras Phil.
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#174 - 2015-12-01 17:26:29 UTC
Samwise Everquest wrote:
Burtakus wrote:
Wow....the level of whine is amazing.

Are ogb used and abused.......without a doubt. Are they a cancer on the game......not at all.

The biggest cancer in eve is the requirements for n+1 and the risk averse blob mentality it creates on both sides of the blob.

Forcing links on grid will only feed this cancer. I am one of the lucky ones who's ogb frees me of this risk aversness and enables me to attempt a fight outgunned and/or out numbered, in shield or armor, kite or brawl.

I forsee the days of old when my link alt goes back to e-war support. Considering she is near perfect e-war and has EAF 5 and Recon 5 I suppose folks can have something else to whine about. On the plus side this may get me back into being an FC and bringing my own blob with me.





complains about n+1 mentality, uses n+1 mentality.


Not sure if your response is legit or an attempt to troll.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#175 - 2015-12-01 18:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Samwise Everquest wrote:

complains about n+1 mentality, uses whatever will be effective come what may. Even if there are less options to be effective.


FTFY

Not sure how moving boosts on grid will effect your smarbombing / evasion camp gameplay. I suppose not much if your entire play style is focused on not getting into actual fights.
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#176 - 2015-12-01 18:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Samwise Everquest
Burtakus wrote:
Not sure if your response is legit or an attempt to troll.


Not sure if you are an idiot just act like one in EvE.

heh noticed you fly around in a Svipul with links and you want to talk about cancer? Also good job losing a bil pod on the Jita undock like a moron. I think I am done here. Later scrub.

Pras Phil.
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#177 - 2015-12-01 23:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
RonPaul Rox wrote:
the same reason T2 BPOs exist, if ccp makes a bad decision that will anger people if they fix it, they dont fix it

This is the correct answer, unfortunately. I miss the original CCP. The OG devs would do something. The only time they ever responded to butthurt was when M0o was gate camping high sec.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#178 - 2015-12-02 00:22:40 UTC
Don't worry. People will be complaining about T3Ds and T2 Frig Logi in a few weeks. Both of which can easily fit cruiser ABs and still be viable.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2015-12-02 04:10:50 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Don't worry. People will be complaining about T3Ds and T2 Frig Logi in a few weeks. Both of which can easily fit cruiser ABs and still be viable.


T3D's will be so much less cancerous without links. Except the Hecate, which is **** even with links. But the Svipul benefits massively from speed and shield links and without them will be far more reasonable.
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#180 - 2015-12-02 20:22:12 UTC
Samwise Everquest wrote:
Burtakus wrote:
Not sure if your response is legit or an attempt to troll.


Not sure if you are an idiot just act like one in EvE.

heh noticed you fly around in a Svipul with links and you want to talk about cancer? Also good job losing a bil pod on the Jita undock like a moron. I think I am done here. Later scrub.


Nice job devolving to name calling.

That Svipul that you complain about gets kills without links. 99% of my Svipul kills were without links so nice try at basing your emotional response on a false assumption.

As for the pod, yeah I lost a bill pod. Not the first and not the last. Implants were replaced within ten minutes and due to game issues I successfully petitioned CCP and got the ship and Implants returned a day later. Not really seeing the point of your statement other than to act out.

If your reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills were reasonably good you would have understood that my initial post was that I use 1 + 1 ( myself and a link alt) to increase my engagement profile to small gangs that have me outnumbered and often outshipped. In simple terms this means I can get more PVP faster because I can engage more targets as opposed to running away.