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Command ships

Author
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-08 00:22:30 UTC
(Reposting here because i had a derp moment and put it in the wrong forum.)

Ok, I'm officially at the point of Screw mining forever. (no this is not a gank problem, it's a being fragging bored problem) I have recently shifted gears because there are two classes of subcapital ships that i find interesting.

I'm swapping to logistics for both PvP and Incursions, and command battlecruisers.

Right now I'm looking at the Astarte as my first goal for a command ship. Mostly as a fleet booster that I can fight in. I'm looking for information and tips on what command ships are good and what ones are most useful overall to a fleet whether it be for missions or for PvP fleets. I realize that command ships are high-priority targets, but that doesn't bother me.\

I have chosen armored warfare and siege warfare as my focus because Info war and skirmish seem very situational.

So what ships actually do well, and what are they best for?
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-01-08 00:26:48 UTC
Go Amarr or Minmatar, Sleip and Abso both rock, Legion rocks, Lasers rock, AC's are meh but better than blasters/rail
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2012-01-08 00:37:53 UTC
For the love of all that is holy, stay away from the Astarte.

…at least as long as you want to fly a command ship. If you want to fly a +1 Brutix of Smiting, then yes, the Asstart will work (at some expense), but fitting it with any command modules is just pointless. Or, rather, there's no reason to get it for fitting command mods over any other ship that can also fit the same module.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#4 - 2012-01-08 00:38:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
You don't really use command ships in eve anymore - fleet command ships are entirely outclassed by T3 cruisers - just park them off grid or hop between saves if you think the enemy has a competent prober.

Field command ships - well - the abso gets used in incursions because it has decent resists, although there's no single reason you wouldn't use a legion over it since it tanks better and has better range.

The Sleipnir gets some use as a pve ship thanks to it's active tanking bonus and relatively good DPS and damage projection. In PvP, it's usually used with an off-grid T3 fleetbooster alt, a HG Crystal set and blue pill.

Edit - oh - and the rest aren't even worth commenting on.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-01-08 00:52:15 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
You don't really use command ships in eve anymore - fleet command ships are entirely outclassed by T3 cruisers - just park them off grid or hop between saves if you think the enemy has a competent prober.

Field command ships - well - the abso gets used in incursions because it has decent resists, although there's no single reason you wouldn't use a legion over it since it tanks better and has better range.

The Sleipnir gets some use as a pve ship thanks to it's active tanking bonus and relatively good DPS and damage projection. In PvP, it's usually used with an off-grid T3 fleetbooster alt, a HG Crystal set and blue pill.

Edit - oh - and the rest aren't even worth commenting on.


this would be... tragic. Especially since these ships are pretty cool overall. Bah.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-01-08 00:52:58 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
.

Damn thast one uggly avatar, damn!

How about an off or on grid fleet booster? Usually used for fleet boosting during missioning and or out of corp war dec fleet boosters?

I asked the other day if there is a such thing as a command proteus?

I wish to remain gallente cause my main flys pure gallente, but has zero gun skills. Lots of drone skills for thanny / Nyx.

I want to build a ship that will not provide any DPS at all. None, null, siltch, NADA! Which would be a good option?
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-08 01:01:57 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
.

Damn thast one uggly avatar, damn!

How about an off or on grid fleet booster? Usually used for fleet boosting during missioning and or out of corp war dec fleet boosters?

I asked the other day if there is a such thing as a command proteus?

I wish to remain gallente cause my main flys pure gallente, but has zero gun skills. Lots of drone skills for thanny / Nyx.

I want to build a ship that will not provide any DPS at all. None, null, siltch, NADA! Which would be a good option?


Proteus warfare link bonus is to information warfare.

If you want a ship that has zero DPS build a logistics cruiser, Industrial command or freighters.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2012-01-08 01:03:24 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
I asked the other day if there is a such thing as a command proteus?
Sure. There's absolutely no reason to use it though.

The problem with that, as with the Astarte and Eos, is that they give bonuses to Information Warfare — the most useless of gang links. The reason to use a T3 is to get higher bonuses than a CS, but doing so comes at the cost of making the ship absolute faff — you park it as far away from the battle as possible and hope that no-one can find you (preferably safely inside a POS shield).

So going for a command Proteus means you're giving extra bonuses to a set of rather useless command mods, and no particular bonus to everything else, so you might as well fly pretty much anything else that can fit a warfare link and get the same results (or better, since any other ship will be able to also give bonuses to some actually useful command mod).

This problem cripples all Gallente warfare link ships: they give bonuses to something no-one particularly needs. Sure, you can do it to remain “racially pure”, but realise that you'll want to fit pretty much every other link than the ones you're getting bonuses for. As a result, it doesn't matter what ship you choose.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-01-08 01:10:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jason McCoy wrote:
I asked the other day if there is a such thing as a command proteus?
Sure. There's absolutely no reason to use it though.

The problem with that, as with the Astarte and Eos, is that they give bonuses to Information Warfare — the most useless of gang links. The reason to use a T3 is to get higher bonuses than a CS, but doing so comes at the cost of making the ship absolute faff — you park it as far away from the battle as possible and hope that no-one can find you (preferably safely inside a POS shield).

So going for a command Proteus means you're giving extra bonuses to a set of rather useless command mods, and no particular bonus to everything else, so you might as well fly pretty much anything else that can fit a warfare link and get the same results (or better, since any other ship will be able to also give bonuses to some actually useful command mod).

This problem cripples all Gallente warfare link ships: they give bonuses to something no-one particularly needs. Sure, you can do it to remain “racially pure”, but realise that you'll want to fit pretty much every other link than the ones you're getting bonuses for. As a result, it doesn't matter what ship you choose.


Astarte is the gunboat version that requires learning HACs. no warfare link bonus, like the absolution. The Eos gives the info war bonus.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2012-01-08 01:14:57 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
Astarte is the gunboat version that requires learning HACs. no warfare link bonus, like the absolution. The Eos gives the info war bonus.

Right you are. Even less of a reason to use one. Like I said — it's a +1 Brutix at 5× the cost. Meh.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-01-08 01:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason McCoy
What ship can be used off grid, parked at a planet to provide fleet bonuses.

For example I use a three command link orca parked at a planet, to provide siege bonuses when running missions with my tengu.

What ship can I use that I can fit more than three links. I dont care about the ships inherit bonuses persay. The ship will sit at a planet afk providing bonuses, but I would like this ship to use more than just three links.

I totally understand I must use command processors in order to fit more command links.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2012-01-08 01:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jason McCoy wrote:
What ship can I use that I can fit more than three links. I dont care about the ships inherit bonuses persay. The ship will sit at a planet afk providing bonuses, but I would like this ship to use more than just three links.
Any ship that lets you fit Command Processors. The best basis for this is either a T3 (which will give you a ship that can do fsck-all except give command bonuses — as in a Mining Barge is now a lethal threat to your ship), or a Fleet CS (it gets three links basis, and has enough fitting space for 3-4 more + the processors to run them).

Note in particular the CPU usage on those things — a Command Processor + [whatever] Warfare Link II combo will consume 205 Tf CPU and 260 MW grid.
I likegirls
Lost Puppy Relocation Services
Sorority
#13 - 2012-01-08 01:35:29 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
What ship can be used off grid, parked at a planet to provide fleet bonuses.

For example I use a three command link orca parked at a planet, to provide siege bonuses when running missions with my tengu.

What ship can I use that I can fit more than three links. I dont care about the ships inherit bonuses persay. The ship will sit at a planet afk providing bonuses, but I would like this ship to use more than just three links.

I totally understand I must use command processors in order to fit more command links.


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Command_Processor_I

Any of the fleet command ships or t3's can fit more than 3 links with the use of command processors.

You will need co-processors though, and faction/officer ones and cpu implants for the t3's. Don't sit at a planet afk with an untanked t3 fit out with faction/officer co-processors though. At least use a safe spot, or the best is to park in a pos.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-01-08 01:38:54 UTC
I likegirls wrote:
Jason McCoy wrote:
What ship can be used off grid, parked at a planet to provide fleet bonuses.

For example I use a three command link orca parked at a planet, to provide siege bonuses when running missions with my tengu.

What ship can I use that I can fit more than three links. I dont care about the ships inherit bonuses persay. The ship will sit at a planet afk providing bonuses, but I would like this ship to use more than just three links.

I totally understand I must use command processors in order to fit more command links.


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Command_Processor_I

Any of the fleet command ships or t3's can fit more than 3 links with the use of command processors.

You will need co-processors though, and faction/officer ones and cpu implants for the t3's. Don't sit at a planet afk with an untanked t3 fit out with faction/officer co-processors though. At least use a safe spot, or the best is to park in a pos.


and if you're really feeling froggy a nyx can fit 6 of them.

Have fun in low/null.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#15 - 2012-01-08 01:39:14 UTC
The astarte is an interesting ship and I've seen them used effectively before. With the hybrid buff they may very well be one of the better pvp CS's but I haven't encountered one yet since the changes. In terms of pve and specifically incursions, I have my doubts on it's capabilities. Blasters are still terribly short ranged and I'm not sure rails are going to have the tracking. I'm inclined to agree that an abso, slep or nighthawk may actually be better for your purposes.

As for legion vs abso, the legion is better in HAC gangs, abso is better in BS/BC gangs. The reasons are obvious, the abso has more tank and more dps while the legion has greater mobility and range. Those who say the legion has more tank or dps haven't the slightest clue as to how to fit them. Also, shame on anyone who primaries an abso. The only thing worse you can call primary is a damnation. In fact, in a lot of ways calling a damnation primary is better. That would atleast knock their ganglinks out of action if you actually managed to kill it (unlikely), abso's don't typically fit them.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#16 - 2012-01-08 01:59:19 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
(Reposting here because i had a derp moment and put it in the wrong forum.)

Ok, I'm officially at the point of Screw mining forever. (no this is not a gank problem, it's a being fragging bored problem) I have recently shifted gears because there are two classes of subcapital ships that i find interesting.

I'm swapping to logistics for both PvP and Incursions, and command battlecruisers.

Right now I'm looking at the Astarte as my first goal for a command ship. Mostly as a fleet booster that I can fight in. I'm looking for information and tips on what command ships are good and what ones are most useful overall to a fleet whether it be for missions or for PvP fleets. I realize that command ships are high-priority targets, but that doesn't bother me.\

I have chosen armored warfare and siege warfare as my focus because Info war and skirmish seem very situational.

So what ships actually do well, and what are they best for?


If you are going armoured or siege warfare, others have covered it.

But don't sell the Claymore short.
Does a command Loki give better boosts? Yes, marginally.
But you can easily fit a 100K plus tank, 500 plus DPS on a Claymore with 3 command links, plus you can actually fly with the PvP fleet as opposed to being an off grid booster.

Trust me. I have flown it in 0.0 and those skirmish links are not "situational". Bonused a/b and MwD speed, plus significantly longer tackle range are key factors in 0.0 PvP.
Tacklers especially love a Claymore pilot who can move with the fleet as opposed to a thin tanked command Loki.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-01-08 02:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylyis
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


If you are going armoured or siege warfare, others have covered it.

But don't sell the Claymore short.
Does a command Loki give better boosts? Yes, marginally.
But you can easily fit a 100K plus tank, 500 plus DPS on a Claymore with 3 command links, plus you can actually fly with the PvP fleet as opposed to being an off grid booster.

Trust me. I have flown it in 0.0 and those skirmish links are not "situational". Bonused a/b and MwD speed, plus significantly longer tackle range are key factors in 0.0 PvP.
Tacklers especially love a Claymore pilot who can move with the fleet as opposed to a thin tanked command Loki.


How would one of the HAC command ships like the Absolution do here? No specific boost (I like the versatility) plus I'll have the Claymore anyway as a result of training for the absolution and the scimitar.

Edit: Bah, accidentally put legion in place of absolution.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#18 - 2012-01-08 02:14:37 UTC
If you want to get into incursions and logistics, it would make sense to train Amarr ships, namely the Guardian for logistics, and the Legion for DPS in incursions.

The Astarte IS a nice ship for PVP but it's not the easiest to use. The EOS is the command link equivalent of it, but as has been cleared up by others, there's no real reason for using one for command links since the strat cruisers do a better job and info warfare links are the least useful. HAVING SAID THAT, the links strats people use are designed to sit in a safespot doing nothing else and as such are run on a secondary account while you actually do something on-grid on your other account.

If you think you would like an astarte, try out the brutix before hand.

Finally, it's not a popular tactic but it's entirely possible to run a command link battlecruiser or command ship and actually be in the fight at the same time, just that it's so easy to place a hard to scan strat in a safespot so people don't do this.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-01-08 02:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylyis
Lady Spank wrote:
If you want to get into incursions and logistics, it would make sense to train Amarr ships, namely the Guardian for logistics, and the Legion for DPS in incursions.

The Astarte IS a nice ship for PVP but it's not the easiest to use. The EOS is the command link equivalent of it, but as has been cleared up by others, there's no real reason for using one for command links since the strat cruisers do a better job and info warfare links are the least useful. HAVING SAID THAT, the links strats people use are designed to sit in a safespot doing nothing else and as such are run on a secondary account while you actually do something on-grid on your other account.

If you think you would like an astarte, try out the brutix before hand.

Finally, it's not a popular tactic but it's entirely possible to run a command link battlecruiser or command ship and actually be in the fight at the same time, just that it's so easy to place a hard to scan strat in a safespot so people don't do this.


Brutix is fun. afterburner + webber and a blaster fit.

I'm picking scimitar for logi primary because the incursion fleet I'm looking to join prefers it, as it's less likely to need a capbuddy than the basilisk.

And if I'm going to be in a fight I plan to be IN THE FIGHT. Command ships in safespot may be preferred but I'm willing to put my ISK on the line and risk getting popped. I have but one character to PvP. I'm not going to waste the opportunity by hiding in a bubble.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#20 - 2012-01-08 03:41:15 UTC
Fair enough and tbh having the link ship with the main fleet has a big mobility advantage since you can change systems on a whim without worrying about your links getting left behind. In this role, nothing beats the damnation. It doesn't pack much punch but it tanks like no other subcap in the game. 400k+ EHP is not difficult to achieve with t2 gear, neither are 80%+ resists. With logi on field, they are basically invulnerable to attack until you have enough guys to actually alpha one. In all honesty, so long as you aren't in one of those null sec super blobs, you should be pretty safe in one.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

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