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The Worst (allegedly) Marauders
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Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2015-11-19 14:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Khan Wrenth
Daniela Doran wrote:

Is the MWD a better option than the MJD for a Tach Pally running Lev 4 missions or do you use both of them?


If you're running Tachy, I'd say MJD is all you need. Land in a pocket. if everything is far away, nuke it. If everything is close, MJD, then nuke it.

The only tricky part about MJD is positioning to make sure you can get to the next gate. If there's a gate, say, 50km away from where you enter a pocket, you can MJD at an almost perpendicular angle to the gate, which will land you close to 100km away from it. Next jump gets you to the gate within it's sphere of influence. That way, another prop mod is almost never needed. Almost. Depending on range, you have to change the relative angle of the first jump. It's an art, not a science, until CCP sees fit to give us protractors and range rules in that Tactical overlay (boy wouldn't that be nice?).

Edit: Fixed a typo in the post you quoted. I meant to say MJD + Tachy, and I accidentally wrote MWD + Tachy. That's fixed now.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Sandrilla Sastrum
Doomheim
#62 - 2015-11-20 02:09:37 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
If they take Ewar immunity away from Bastion then the Marauders would be garbage and relegated into plain overpriced lev 4 mission boats.


Don't give CCP any ideas. EWAR immunity is one of the primary reasons to use a Marauder. If they take that away, they'd have to give them something massive in return precisely because you'd be right, they would be garbage. Like maybe a very heavy mobility bonus, cap recharge supercharge, or something.


I'd take Cap Warfare Immunity over Ewar Immunity any day of the week.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#63 - 2015-11-20 06:06:46 UTC
Sandrilla Sastrum wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
If they take Ewar immunity away from Bastion then the Marauders would be garbage and relegated into plain overpriced lev 4 mission boats.


Don't give CCP any ideas. EWAR immunity is one of the primary reasons to use a Marauder. If they take that away, they'd have to give them something massive in return precisely because you'd be right, they would be garbage. Like maybe a very heavy mobility bonus, cap recharge supercharge, or something.


I'd take Cap Warfare Immunity over Ewar Immunity any day of the week.


I'd settle for getting the 90% webs back.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2015-11-20 21:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Templar Dane wrote:
Sandrilla Sastrum wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
If they take Ewar immunity away from Bastion then the Marauders would be garbage and relegated into plain overpriced lev 4 mission boats.


Don't give CCP any ideas. EWAR immunity is one of the primary reasons to use a Marauder. If they take that away, they'd have to give them something massive in return precisely because you'd be right, they would be garbage. Like maybe a very heavy mobility bonus, cap recharge supercharge, or something.


I'd take Cap Warfare Immunity over Ewar Immunity any day of the week.


I'd settle for getting the 90% webs back.


You guys need to screw your heads on tighter if you think that cap immunity or 90% web makes up for ewar immunity.
You're immune to ECM, tracking disrupt, sensor damps, (soon to be missile disrupt), and everything else.

Did you guys fly these things before Bastion?
They were miserable specifically because of ewar.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#65 - 2015-11-20 22:59:41 UTC
Don't like them in current iteration at all self tackling stand still marauding is a joke.

If anything would like to see bastion modules have some assault variants that do not make you stop ship give decent sensor boost,speed agility stuff like that so you can use ship in less redicilous way.

Krone need it Web back they all need their w speed buffed a tad 2.5_2.7au.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2015-11-21 02:03:17 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
You guys need to screw your heads on tighter if you think that cap immunity or 90% web makes up for ewar immunity.
You're immune to ECM, tracking disrupt, sensor damps, (soon to be missile disrupt), and everything else.

Did you guys fly these things before Bastion?
They were miserable specifically because of ewar.


Thank you. To use a quick analogy, right now marauders are like Achilles. Incredibly resilient and powerful with one potent, of course, Achilles' heel. These people are saying they'd rather give up all that resiliency to have an armored heel.

I don't even understand the clamor for 90% webs on a Marauder. It's a battleship; if you're going to have the manual flying skill and prowess to chase down targets in a battleship and actually catch them, you never needed the 90% webs to begin with.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Stephanie Rosefire
Atlas Protectorate and Empire Defense Agency
#67 - 2015-11-23 15:39:00 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Well nobody has complaints about the golem. So lets throw that out.

I don't think people have complaints about the Vargur (have they?, I don't see them a ton).

Leaves the Kronos and the Paladin.

.... yea the most you can do is load them with heavy drones to give them the added umph... I guess.


can only field 1 heavy drone on a paladin...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2015-11-23 16:22:16 UTC
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Well nobody has complaints about the golem. So lets throw that out.

I don't think people have complaints about the Vargur (have they?, I don't see them a ton).

Leaves the Kronos and the Paladin.

.... yea the most you can do is load them with heavy drones to give them the added umph... I guess.


can only field 1 heavy drone on a paladin...


I find that odd myself.
Pali should be able to field a full flight of medium drones.
Oddly enough, the Vargur can, but not the Pali?

I will note, I'm going off your statement and am not fully aware of the Paladin's drone capability.
However, if it can only field 1 heavy, that's less than the Vargur, which is just wrong...
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#69 - 2015-11-24 20:44:27 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Well nobody has complaints about the golem. So lets throw that out.

I don't think people have complaints about the Vargur (have they?, I don't see them a ton).

Leaves the Kronos and the Paladin.

.... yea the most you can do is load them with heavy drones to give them the added umph... I guess.


can only field 1 heavy drone on a paladin...


I find that odd myself.
Pali should be able to field a full flight of medium drones.
Oddly enough, the Vargur can, but not the Pali?

I will note, I'm going off your statement and am not fully aware of the Paladin's drone capability.
However, if it can only field 1 heavy, that's less than the Vargur, which is just wrong...


it is same for Golem
Golem has only 25MB bandwidth

this, T1/Navy Caldari BS has better dps for Poco bashing than Golem.
Firestorm Delta
Aphotic Machina
#70 - 2015-11-24 21:40:47 UTC
unidenify wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Well nobody has complaints about the golem. So lets throw that out.

I don't think people have complaints about the Vargur (have they?, I don't see them a ton).

Leaves the Kronos and the Paladin.

.... yea the most you can do is load them with heavy drones to give them the added umph... I guess.


can only field 1 heavy drone on a paladin...


I find that odd myself.
Pali should be able to field a full flight of medium drones.
Oddly enough, the Vargur can, but not the Pali?

I will note, I'm going off your statement and am not fully aware of the Paladin's drone capability.
However, if it can only field 1 heavy, that's less than the Vargur, which is just wrong...


it is same for Golem
Golem has only 25MB bandwidth

this, T1/Navy Caldari BS has better dps for Poco bashing than Golem.


Caldari ships aren't supposed to be drone boats so it makes more sense for the Golem. The Paladin on the other hand should have better drones than the Vargur.

Also not sure that having 1 to 2 more heavy drones is really "better" dps against a Poco unless you'd prefer to use a rokh for Poco bashing since all the Raven variants have the exact same number of effective launchers more or less.

Of course not sure why you'd use a T2 to Poco bash anyway.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#71 - 2015-11-25 02:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Firestorm Delta wrote:
unidenify wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Well nobody has complaints about the golem. So lets throw that out.

I don't think people have complaints about the Vargur (have they?, I don't see them a ton).

Leaves the Kronos and the Paladin.

.... yea the most you can do is load them with heavy drones to give them the added umph... I guess.


can only field 1 heavy drone on a paladin...


I find that odd myself.
Pali should be able to field a full flight of medium drones.
Oddly enough, the Vargur can, but not the Pali?

I will note, I'm going off your statement and am not fully aware of the Paladin's drone capability.
However, if it can only field 1 heavy, that's less than the Vargur, which is just wrong...


it is same for Golem
Golem has only 25MB bandwidth

this, T1/Navy Caldari BS has better dps for Poco bashing than Golem.


Caldari ships aren't supposed to be drone boats so it makes more sense for the Golem. The Paladin on the other hand should have better drones than the Vargur.

Also not sure that having 1 to 2 more heavy drones is really "better" dps against a Poco unless you'd prefer to use a rokh for Poco bashing since all the Raven variants have the exact same number of effective launchers more or less.

Of course not sure why you'd use a T2 to Poco bash anyway.


SNI, RNI and Raven have 5 low slot so, they can have 4 BCS + 1 Drone Amp plus RNI + SNI have 75 MB which let them have 3 heavy drone. SO overall, they will do about 120-130 dps more over Golem and being much more cheaper.

Of course, it don't mean they are best Poco bashing though

whole point of Marauder is that they has strongest tank for sub-cap, and best damage application for BS weapon.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-11-26 00:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
unidenify wrote:


SNI, RNI and Raven have 5 low slot so, they can have 4 BCS + 1 Drone Amp plus RNI + SNI have 75 MB which let them have 3 heavy drone. SO overall, they will do about 120-130 dps more over Golem and being much more cheaper.

Of course, it don't mean they are best Poco bashing though

whole point of Marauder is that they has strongest tank for sub-cap, and best damage application for BS weapon.


You might also note that Marauders are also immune to ewar when in bastion.

THis could be quite powerful when bashing POS structures heavy on ewar.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#73 - 2015-11-26 02:10:24 UTC
yeah but their dps should be higher like...rattlesnake level 1300->1500. Right now it is underwhelming.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-11-26 02:23:55 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
yeah but their dps should be higher like...rattlesnake level 1300->1500. Right now it is underwhelming.


Marauder dps isn't supposed to be that high..
They have massive tank, good application, insane range, MJD cool down bonus, and wear immunity in bastion.
Not to mention the use of 4 guns, which is beneficial to cap and ammo consumption.

That being said, you can still pull off 1700 dps in a Kronos, 1300 or more in a Golem with better application and range, and I have no idea what the Pali and Vargur are capable of, but it's no joke either.

However, the Pali, I feel, is in the weaker position of the 4.
I think upping the drone bandwidth to allow for 3-4 heavies to be launched would be quite helpful.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#75 - 2015-11-26 04:54:57 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
yeah but their dps should be higher like...rattlesnake level 1300->1500. Right now it is underwhelming.


100% of 1300 > 80% of 1500

Then there is range bonus as well
Justin Cody
War Firm
#76 - 2015-11-26 08:33:52 UTC
unidenify wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
yeah but their dps should be higher like...rattlesnake level 1300->1500. Right now it is underwhelming.


100% of 1300 > 80% of 1500

Then there is range bonus as well


the range is fine in bastion. I don't have an issue with it.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#77 - 2015-11-26 08:39:10 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
yeah but their dps should be higher like...rattlesnake level 1300->1500. Right now it is underwhelming.


Marauder dps isn't supposed to be that high..
They have massive tank, good application, insane range, MJD cool down bonus, and wear immunity in bastion.
Not to mention the use of 4 guns, which is beneficial to cap and ammo consumption.

That being said, you can still pull off 1700 dps in a Kronos, 1300 or more in a Golem with better application and range, and I have no idea what the Pali and Vargur are capable of, but it's no joke either.

However, the Pali, I feel, is in the weaker position of the 4.
I think upping the drone bandwidth to allow for 3-4 heavies to be launched would be quite helpful.


Vargur will top out around 1K dps
Pali similar to kronos at around 1200 -> 1300 with pulse and conflag

1,700 with kronos? overheated with 4x mag stabs and void? Unrealistic fit but ok.

right now with 2x magstab and marauders 4 I do around 1200 dps on kronos with void...more overheated but still underwhelming considering how vulnerable it is to neuts in general. Rattlers for PVE are less vulnerable since missiles and drones don't use cap and you can passive fit the tank.

Again in PVP (my main concern) is vulnerability to neuts exceeds all other ecm invuln benefits in bastion since cap warfare happens in or out.

If they are mini dreads then give them mini dread cap levels. The paladin comes close at 11K cap (which is a huge amount) but one Bhaalgorn and you're dry in just over 1 full set of neuts on you. I dunno its a hard balance but maybe with the spring cap redux we'll see marauders get new life since dreads won't be 2 shotting them in bastion any more.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2015-11-26 16:39:38 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
yeah but their dps should be higher like...rattlesnake level 1300->1500. Right now it is underwhelming.


Marauder dps isn't supposed to be that high..
They have massive tank, good application, insane range, MJD cool down bonus, and wear immunity in bastion.
Not to mention the use of 4 guns, which is beneficial to cap and ammo consumption.

That being said, you can still pull off 1700 dps in a Kronos, 1300 or more in a Golem with better application and range, and I have no idea what the Pali and Vargur are capable of, but it's no joke either.

However, the Pali, I feel, is in the weaker position of the 4.
I think upping the drone bandwidth to allow for 3-4 heavies to be launched would be quite helpful.


Vargur will top out around 1K dps
Pali similar to kronos at around 1200 -> 1300 with pulse and conflag

1,700 with kronos? overheated with 4x mag stabs and void? Unrealistic fit but ok.

right now with 2x magstab and marauders 4 I do around 1200 dps on kronos with void...more overheated but still underwhelming considering how vulnerable it is to neuts in general. Rattlers for PVE are less vulnerable since missiles and drones don't use cap and you can passive fit the tank.

Again in PVP (my main concern) is vulnerability to neuts exceeds all other ecm invuln benefits in bastion since cap warfare happens in or out.

If they are mini dreads then give them mini dread cap levels. The paladin comes close at 11K cap (which is a huge amount) but one Bhaalgorn and you're dry in just over 1 full set of neuts on you. I dunno its a hard balance but maybe with the spring cap redux we'll see marauders get new life since dreads won't be 2 shotting them in bastion any more.


Pali and Kronos have always been more susceptible to cap warfare.
As a matter of fact, all but missile and drone boats in their entire ship line up suffer from that issue.

I don't see why it's such a major concern with Marauders, yet the same problem on any other laser or hybrid ship isn't an issue?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#79 - 2015-11-26 17:34:28 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


Pali and Kronos have always been more susceptible to cap warfare.
As a matter of fact, all but missile and drone boats in their entire ship line up suffer from that issue.

I don't see why it's such a major concern with Marauders, yet the same problem on any other laser or hybrid ship isn't an issue?


Good post, Joe. That's your 1000th "like."

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

unidenify
Deaf Armada
#80 - 2015-11-26 18:37:16 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
yeah but their dps should be higher like...rattlesnake level 1300->1500. Right now it is underwhelming.


Marauder dps isn't supposed to be that high..
They have massive tank, good application, insane range, MJD cool down bonus, and wear immunity in bastion.
Not to mention the use of 4 guns, which is beneficial to cap and ammo consumption.

That being said, you can still pull off 1700 dps in a Kronos, 1300 or more in a Golem with better application and range, and I have no idea what the Pali and Vargur are capable of, but it's no joke either.

However, the Pali, I feel, is in the weaker position of the 4.
I think upping the drone bandwidth to allow for 3-4 heavies to be launched would be quite helpful.


Vargur will top out around 1K dps
Pali similar to kronos at around 1200 -> 1300 with pulse and conflag

1,700 with kronos? overheated with 4x mag stabs and void? Unrealistic fit but ok.

right now with 2x magstab and marauders 4 I do around 1200 dps on kronos with void...more overheated but still underwhelming considering how vulnerable it is to neuts in general. Rattlers for PVE are less vulnerable since missiles and drones don't use cap and you can passive fit the tank.

Again in PVP (my main concern) is vulnerability to neuts exceeds all other ecm invuln benefits in bastion since cap warfare happens in or out.

If they are mini dreads then give them mini dread cap levels. The paladin comes close at 11K cap (which is a huge amount) but one Bhaalgorn and you're dry in just over 1 full set of neuts on you. I dunno its a hard balance but maybe with the spring cap redux we'll see marauders get new life since dreads won't be 2 shotting them in bastion any more.


Pali and Kronos have always been more susceptible to cap warfare.
As a matter of fact, all but missile and drone boats in their entire ship line up suffer from that issue.

I don't see why it's such a major concern with Marauders, yet the same problem on any other laser or hybrid ship isn't an issue?


I guess he feel there are issue with armour Marauder because shield Marauder has advantage of ASB + capless weapon to avoid Neut issue.