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[ISHTI] Condemnation of Pornography – Legal Statement

Author
RoyAraym
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-01-02 03:29:39 UTC
Posting in a discussion about pornography (... Roll quite interesting thing Roll ) supposely with an Amarrian noble girl as main actress (Twisted VERY interesting thing, in the end Twisted), I was moved to search any infos available about this honourable lady...

... I find her suitable for a role, but a little too much skinny. I doubt she can endure enough "artistic phisical activities"...

... so, in the end, I'm probably sure that she didn't do it: working for any adult holo-film is pretty phisical. Not for anyone...

Beware: Made in Italy!«Non c'è problema! Tu mi dici quello che devo fare... ... ed io lo faccio.»

Alica Wildfire
Industry Network
#62 - 2012-01-05 09:34:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alica Wildfire
There is no thing like pornography.

There are naked human bodies, bodies that we have been born with, bodies in which we die. Bodies in which we capsuleers enter or leave daily the pod. I say even the plain idea of pornography is a hypocritical lie of the zealots and the established Amarr religion and church with just one goal: to oppress women.

They call women that sell sexual cordialities "public" women and whores.

But is it not exact the other way round? That "public" women are not allowed by the public to freely dispose about what they like to do with their body? That those "whores" just sell what they have? Still they have their body and can sell sexual favors and are no "public girls" that are not allowed to do so. Instead the "public" demands them to spread their legs for nothing but a word of "god" in the name of the church or what?!

I know this kind of swine that put a girl a bun in the oven and then leave without ever paying for compensation.

The girls that receive a one-time-fee for that receive more than most of those swine would pay in a lifetime if they use one of those "public girls" to satisfy their needs and leave the girl used, bruised and exploited, naked on the floor. Because they leave her with all the consequences. I say: pay for it.

And in this case I can say that we're talking about a free girl, a proud capsuleer. And while there is no proof of what she is accused to have done, it is no crime anyway. Even not a moral one.

When talking about crimes, how about the thousands and millions of slaveholders, that go to sexual assault the slave-girls in their pits? Why doesn't anyone throw those suckers out of families?

Chauvinism! Amarrian society! Hope you all burn for that in the thing you call hell. And we Matari will go to shovel the coal to that fire. That'll be heaven! The only real pornography in New Eden is the Book of Prayers and other of those called scriptures. Hypocritical bastards.

Alica snorts.

FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-01-05 17:16:11 UTC
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
I know I should not and under regular circumstances I would not, but since even you, Silas, lowered yourself into a state of making smutty remarks whenever you see the opportunity, I believe I have to do it now. I simply wasn't aware that gullibility and oafishness are such widespread phenomena these days.


Now that you have publicly denied these allegations, I of course withdraw any previous humorous comments that were at your expense. No hard feelings, my dear.


Sabik now, Sabik forever

Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#64 - 2012-01-05 22:20:05 UTC
Alica Wildfire wrote:
There is no thing like pornography.

There are naked human bodies, bodies that we have been born with, bodies in which we die. Bodies in which we capsuleers enter or leave daily the pod. I say even the plain idea of pornography is a hypocritical lie of the zealots and the established Amarr religion and church with just one goal: to oppress women.

They call women that sell sexual cordialities "public" women and whores.

But is it not exact the other way round? That "public" women are not allowed by the public to freely dispose about what they like to do with their body? That those "whores" just sell what they have? Still they have their body and can sell sexual favors and are no "public girls" that are not allowed to do so. Instead the "public" demands them to spread their legs for nothing but a word of "god" in the name of the church or what?!

I know this kind of swine that put a girl a bun in the oven and then leave without ever paying for compensation.

The girls that receive a one-time-fee for that receive more than most of those swine would pay in a lifetime if they use one of those "public girls" to satisfy their needs and leave the girl used, bruised and exploited, naked on the floor. Because they leave her with all the consequences. I say: pay for it.

And in this case I can say that we're talking about a free girl, a proud capsuleer. And while there is no proof of what she is accused to have done, it is no crime anyway. Even not a moral one.

When talking about crimes, how about the thousands and millions of slaveholders, that go to sexual assault the slave-girls in their pits? Why doesn't anyone throw those suckers out of families?

Chauvinism! Amarrian society! Hope you all burn for that in the thing you call hell. And we Matari will go to shovel the coal to that fire. That'll be heaven! The only real pornography in New Eden is the Book of Prayers and other of those called scriptures. Hypocritical bastards.

Alica snorts.


I don't believe there is any evidence of Amarrians universally or stereotypically objectifying women, socially or culturally.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Alica Wildfire
Industry Network
#65 - 2012-01-06 01:10:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alica Wildfire
Conventia Underking wrote:
I don't believe there is any evidence of Amarrians universally or stereotypically objectifying women, socially or culturally.


It's hard to prove what an Amarrian thinks - still you can't open heads and look for thoughts. But I can point the finger on the scripture they are poisoning minds with - their own and all others. And there is nothing more chauvinistic and women-oppressing, racist piece of text that ever has been printed.

It says it's a message of love. But why then it is so full of hate and crime, murder, blood, rape, revenge, senseless bloodshed and assaulting women in every way you can imagine? Why does it's word spread slavery? Why does the Amarrian church tell us to be slaves?

What's that patronizing bullshit, that's spitting in the face of humanity?

You may walk the earth with the word of love on your lips. But better you don't trust on this kind of religion. A religion that's spreading hate more than anything else. And if people find "God" they do it despite there is religion and these kind of hate-scriptures.

The only thing we Matari have is our freedom from this. And we have paid for it with our blood. And for our ancestors that were dying for it, I swear we keep it like this.

And above all this rabble about religion is the plain truth: there is no god. It's just us.

So what's the plan behind those who lie about this "god"?

You want an alternative? I have a better concept than this at hand: science and the concept of humanism that follows the logic of this. Values of my tribe. I believe you what you can prove. What you can't prove is not true. It's even not working, so why shall anyone believe it? Where's the gain? The scriptures and religions fail in proving anything they claim that is. And worse than this they lose ground to science every day. We prove that they have been wrong in one thing after an other, daily. It's a lost battle the Amarrians are fighting. A battle against reality. A battle that was lost with the first Khumaak splattering the head of the first slave-master and spilling his brain to the floor.

We started to say: NO
And we keep it like this. It's the WHY and the sceptic thinking that broke the control of the Amarr Empire over us. And the gap in the foundation is widening every day since the rebellion. The cause is doomed. And without it's foundation the Empire will collapse. It just takes time and our resistance to prevent them to undo history and turning back the clock.

FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS

Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2012-01-06 01:15:00 UTC
It would seem that we are not on the same page... or even reading the same book.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Annara Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2012-01-06 02:13:16 UTC
I believe ms Wildfire is speaking more from her heart than her mind.
I also do not believe that she has actually read the Scriptures.
Is she aware that this "chauvinistic and women-oppressing" culture she seems to think we have is lead by an empress who is, without a doubt, a woman?
Alica Wildfire
Industry Network
#68 - 2012-01-06 09:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Alica Wildfire
Annara Shardani wrote:
I believe ms Wildfire is speaking more from her heart than her mind.
I also do not believe that she has actually read the Scriptures.
Is she aware that this "chauvinistic and women-oppressing" culture she seems to think we have is lead by an empress who is, without a doubt, a woman?


It is of no importance if a woman is having the leadership if the rest is unfree. It is of no importance in an Empire if some people are free when most of it's inhabitants are kept in slavery.

And I don't know what you've been reading. But the scriptures indeed are written by men, not women. It's patriarchal. Like most religions it's a tool for oppression. Nothing more.

That's why the Republic doesn't like it in our space too much - still it isn't forbidden. But remember the last salvation crusade of yours. Mind the fate of Abel Jarek. That's what happens to the word spreading oppression on our land. We fight it.

I admit it was the most sublime attack of the Empire on our free Republic. Maybe one of the most dangerous ones. So our enemy is clearly your religion. We are not fighting a religious war, we are fighting a cultural war. We are defending the idea of freedom against any attack from your side. Freedom to live our own culture in which your sort of religion plays no role.

Indeed our songs are about the world and not the world in heaven. Your songs are about our fears and our hopes and not the fear of hellfire or the hope to march into heaven. We are practical. Show me a hell or a heaven that I can touch and I hope or fear for it. Build some hell or heaven from twisted words and they don't mean a thing.

The hell on earth is slavery. Especially if you are a woman. I can't believe you doubt that. Ever seen a pit? Your religion, your scriptures and that - are the same.

Heaven is to be free. There it starts and has no horizon. Our fate is not in some scriptures - it's in our hands.

FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2012-01-07 13:07:39 UTC
You obviously do not know what you are talking about.
Balthazar Baraz
17th Imperial Lancers
#70 - 2012-01-07 18:47:17 UTC
It is of no importance if a woman is having the leadership if the rest is unfree. It is of no importance in an Empire if some people are free when most of it's inhabitants are kept in slavery.

Tell me, who is oppressing women?

There is no Amarrian law or text that says women are chained, shackled or of any less importance in the Empire. Nor is women's freedom restricted any more than men, it appears you are just making baseless assumptions.

Here is the fundamental difference in our thinking; you think slavery is contradictory to freedom, whereas I believe slavery leads to freedom.

And I don't know what you've been reading. But the scriptures indeed are written by men, not women. It's patriarchal. Like most religions it's a tool for oppression. Nothing more.

The original texts were passed down from divine beings through medium of Prophets, Saints, Priests and various Emperors. Amarrian's and those of faith refer to the Scriptures as The Word of God - because that is what they are.

They may of been recorded and maintained by Imperial Theologians but they were not devised or created by them.

You clearly have no understanding of the Scriptures because if you did, you would understand that they are not a "tool for oppression" but they are in fact a library of information - vast - beyond your wildest imagination. Detailing everything from daily lives to technological advancements.

That's why the Republic doesn't like it in our space too much - still it isn't forbidden. But remember the last salvation crusade of yours. Mind the fate of Abel Jarek. That's what happens to the word spreading oppression on our land. We fight it.

You fight it because you do not understand it. Eventually you will see the truth of the matter, unfortunately it may be too late for your soul.

So our enemy is clearly your religion. We are not fighting a religious war we are fighting a cultural war.

Our religion is heavily ingrained in our culture, this much we were taught by God. This is not so dissimilar from your Tribal roots which are ingrained in your culture. Except our religion is of Divine origin and supersedes that of any lesser beliefs.

We are defending the idea of freedom against any attack from your side. Freedom to live our own culture in which your sort of religion plays no role.

We are also defending your freedom, your freedom to be at one with God. You are attacking us because of your narrow-minded and inept sense of freedom sold to you by conmen, we are the bringers of Gods freedom and we bring it free of charge.

Indeed our songs are about the world and not the world in heaven. Your songs are about our fears and our hopes and not the fear of hellfire or the hope to march into heaven. We are practical. Show me a hell or a heaven that I can touch and I hope or fear for it. Build some hell or heaven from twisted words and they don't mean a thing.

The hell on earth is slavery. Especially if you are a woman. I can't believe you doubt that. Ever seen a pit? Your religion, your scriptures and that - are the same.


The Minmatar people are indeed a practical peoples; which is why you make such excellent workers, so why not work for a higher purpose?

You've already shown us that your knowledge of the Scriptures is fundamentally flawed, so why don't you check in at one of my plantations? I would be more than willing to expand your horizons.

Quote:
Heaven is to be free. There it starts and has no horizon. Our fate is not in our hands, but Gods.


Fixed that for you.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#71 - 2012-01-07 22:04:08 UTC
Balthazar Baraz wrote:


Quote:
Heaven is to be free. There it starts and has no horizon. Our fate is not in our hands, but Gods.


Fixed that for you.


NO you fixed it for yourself

You off course have right to your opinion what you don't understand however is that rest of the world have right of opinion too and couldn't give less frak about opinion that some person ages ago came to some Amarr pagans and said "you know what you need to do is torture/enslave/drug up/starve to death/wipe out on planetary scale a lot of man/women/baby's to be cool like me'.

And breed them up again because not having second's is lame.

So i hope that your thick narrow minded head can understand that you are just minority with some rly messed up dogmatic views on world.

You had a blast pilaging/murdering/exterminating but you hit the wall called the rest of us that evolved and flourish in fraction of the time your backward empire did(i wonder why),and it game over you can jap and whine here and there about slave the galaxy crap but that's about it.

Have a nice one.

P.S. on pron issue stupid is stupid does.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Balthazar Baraz
17th Imperial Lancers
#72 - 2012-01-07 22:17:24 UTC
I'm sorry but I didn't understand a word of that. Boosters are bad for your health.
Alica Wildfire
Industry Network
#73 - 2012-01-08 08:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alica Wildfire
What she said is this:

We Minmatar are doing good in ignoring your scriptures. Because if we read them and find something interesting, the theological council is coming along and cry "Heresy! heresy! No no no! You are too dumb to understand the scriptures!"

It's a catch 22. All truth on earth are simple. Two and two make four. Don't believe me? So count them yourself. And if you find out that on your scriptures two and two make five, good luck with your next hyperspace jump.

We Minmatar do not need to interpret the scriptures to see that they are evil. Because the theological council is doing it much better (they say) than anybody could. They justify slavery and all kinds of cruelty from those scriptures. And they are unfailable (they say). So if in the name of the scriptures Minmatar are maimed and slaughtered, are enslaved and die like flies on Amarrian behave, when the masters are allowed to rob cradles, pull the mothers away from their families and use them for their own pleasure like they like - and to be sexual abused is not the worst case scenario which a sick Amarrian mind can breed. They kill our people, they destroy our culture, they cap hands of the musicians and drug dead our poets. They burn and forbid our books and literature. They burn and laser down our ancient and holy places. They done that a thousand years already.

If in the name of the scriptures millions of Minmatar slaves are forcefully put under the influence of Vitoc to make them submissive to their masters orders, destroying their minds and what you call souls, if all that happens in the name of the scriptures then…

Alica is setting fire on a heap of papers and books on the floor. Smoke slowly rises then with a silent "puff" the whole heap is going up in hot flames.

Burn Amarr, burn, burn, burn!

And to any Minmatar out there, that still has copies of those books of evil and scriptures of hate - feed your heating system with them and sing an ancient wartune doing it. It's of no use to read them anyway. Mind our suffering people! Post clips of burning Amarrian property as an answer. And I want to hear your voices sing!

Alica starts humming an old tune, called "Burning fires of the free".

FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#74 - 2012-01-08 13:17:26 UTC
The Theology Council is not doing better than anyone, but you are certainly not doing better than them by falling for easy prejudices and broad blanket statements.

You should actually read the Scriptures and books before burning them.
Balthazar Baraz
17th Imperial Lancers
#75 - 2012-01-08 18:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Baraz
Resorting to biblioclasm only proves that you are in fact nothing more than uneducated, malevolent savage.
Kaleigh Doyle
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-01-08 19:24:48 UTC
I find all of this amusing and none of this surprising, given the source...
Quote:
Happy birthday, Kaleigh!
From: Odelya d'Hanguest
To: Kaleigh Doyle
If you fancy lesbian adventures and can keep a secret, drop me a message. I would love to see you wearing one of my uniforms while shouting anti-war slogans.

Love from the sacred flower garden,
Odelya


And if you'd been slightly less crass in your approach I might have even taken you up on your offer, If you're this obvious in private, I could only imagine what sort of cringe-inducing orgy you managed to fabricate in in front of a poorly lit holo-vid recorder. Young girls these days are all energy and no technique; Amateurs.

xoxo
Alica Wildfire
Industry Network
#77 - 2012-01-09 14:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alica Wildfire
Lyn Farel wrote:
You should actually read the Scriptures and books before burning them.


I have read them. That's why they are burning.

And I asked myself if I might misunderstood their message, but when I check the interpretation of the Theology Counsel I confirm my own reading. And this means the scripture in their official way of interpretation support slavery, support racism, support the use of Vitoc to enforce the control over the slaves.

And this means, I use all your theological books for heating purpose now.

There are books that are meant for reading. But some books are not. This is not because I don't understand them. It's because I indeed do. And I don't fall for the wrong Gallente-like sort of liberalism of racism- and hate-printings. I spend a couple of Thrasher hulls for crewmen, that want to intercept cargo vessels that leave Amarr stations, to spread copies of those scriptures all around our space. Because I don't exactly buy the stuff I burn. I confiscate it. To buy it would mean to give money to the enemy.

Of cause this will destroy some of my Amarr standing but who cares if you have minus 9.0 or minus 10.0? The 24th crusade doesn't like me either. Maybe this is due to a few dozen podkills of crusaders.

For Amarr Empire I am counted as a terrorist anyway. And not only just for my regular smuggle trade of Small Arms into Empire space. Maybe my affiliation as Minmatar Militia and my long history of destroyed Amarr installations count towards it.

There are people that just talk. Some are for deeds. There are books for reading and some other…

Alica takes an exemplar of the 'Book of Reclaiming' and reads:

"I give to you the destiny of Faith,
And you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens:
Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."
- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 22:13

…are made to serve mankind different.

She smiles, when she opens a small cast-iron stove and throws the concoction into the fire and puts a pot of water on the stove to make hot water for Minmatar Spiced Wine. She nips on a hot steaming glass of wine.

You should see the paper machine that I use to produce toilet paper on my facilities. The squiggles you use in your scrolls are great for cleaning. You may call me a savage if you like and I'll wear that with pride. But at least I'm a clean one. And my rooms are warm and cozy. Sebiestor ingenuity even finds practical use for such books.

FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#78 - 2012-01-09 14:53:13 UTC
There are a lot of things you can accuse the Amarr empire of being. Sexist is not one of them, Ms. Wildfire.

Anyways, I think this is getting a bit off topic, is it not?
Alica Wildfire
Industry Network
#79 - 2012-01-09 15:03:56 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
There are a lot of things you can accuse the Amarr empire of being. Sexist is not one of them, Ms. Wildfire.

The scriptures only talk of the MAN or MEN. When they talk of women they talk of slaves. Never of leaders. Never of prophets. They talk about women when they talk of whores. They talk about women when they talk about sin and temptation.

The only "positive" picture the scriptures paint of women is of a mother. Great.

Girl get laid and serve as a breeding machine or you are worthless.

No sexism, eh?

FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS

Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
#80 - 2012-01-09 15:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ston Momaki
ART THAT CELEBRATES EROS VERSUS PORNOGRAPHY

Let us not lump together two very different forms of expression. Art calls us to a deeper recognition of the higher elements of our humanity. Art that focuses on eros draws the mind, emotions, and appreciative senses to the dignity of human intimacy. It celebrates individual liberty as it is joined with the individual liberty of another in an act of mutual physical, emotional, psychic, and spiritual unity.

Pornography is one of the ultimate forms that expresses human frustration and isolation. It is as far from art as one can get unless your art is the abstraction of human isolation and frustration. Pornography is the un-expression of intimacy. It is "anti-intimacy" if you will. Pornography is the shortcut of the impatient man or woman who seeks intimacy but in frustration does not have the patience to wait for the real thing and so accepts a counterfeit.

That is why pornography leads to exploitation. Pornography, unlike the art of eros, focusses only on the liberty of one while denying the liberty of the other. In the end, no one finds liberty, but rather isolation.

Edit: poor word choice resulting in unintended double entendre.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace