Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You're trying to be sarcastic, but you hit it on the nose.

Iain Cariaba hit the nail on the head. In EVE, you have all the tools necessary to survive. When you die, you simply didn't use them as well as you could have.

EVE's biggest flaw is that it isn't intuitive. When players die, the game gives very little information on what you could've done better. You need other players and the advice they're willing to give to really learn your lessons.

Unfortunately, when someone fails, gets upset and it's not obvious what they did wrong, or even did anything wrong at all, they're not terribly receptive to criticism. Instead, they take it as personal attack. Much like you're doing here. You've got it in your head the game's unbalanced and rather than taking advice on how to be a better player, you've become excessively defensive.

De-pucker a little. It'll do you good.


The last four...five threads have covered this? Re-read them. You've missed the point and it really can't be made any clearer.

I'll try one last time.

IT IS NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO SPEW REAL LIFE INSULTS AND THREATS BECAUSE YOU LOST IN A GAME

Quit trying to excuse poor behaviour and poor sportsmanship.


Why change what isn't broken?

You have failed to identify a single flaw in this matter. Existing escape strategies have already been pointed out over and over again. They work, but they require some modicum of effort and forward planning. Quit trying to protect the lazy and inept.


A restriction that wasn't needed in the first place.


That's all you've done for the last several pages.

No broken record response, that's actually a coherant point.

It does not address the fact that ganks would actually be cheaper for being redirected to lo sec, residents of lo sec have begged for years for increased gameplay options to get people in their space, the fact that the gank could still happen exactly as it does in high sec by just having the ship stop, or the laughable idea that the other guys afk autopiloting their overloaded freighters will see and learn from someone else's mistake.

For the low, low price of having bumping altered to an intentional act that can generate a flag (thus affecting the status quo not at all) you get a tool that increases content for high sec ganks, lo sec gate campers, and a whole new dimension of value for the control of those gates generating conflict and giving 2 sets of PvP motivated pilots reasons to actually fight eachother for a change.

Mike, it's quite clear at this point that you can't comprehend the consequences of your proposal and why they'll never be implemented. I'll make one closing remark for your sake more than anyone else's.

Stop. Go away, do something else for a few days. You're only going to encounter frustration as more knowledgeable players try to tell you why you ideas simply can't work and even more as you realise CCP won't change bumping in the way you want, if they change it at all.

Save yourself the headache.

Another excellent point, I wonder how many of these freighters that get ganked are solo players? Players who have little to no interaction with other players thinking of the game as a stand alone PC game and the other players little more than NPCs?

If you are going to use something you have not used before might be a good idea to ask around how to use it. Get an idea of best practices and make sure you use them.

However, to turn around and want to insult other players or change the game in a fundamental way for not using best practices--i.e. strategies that are going to eventually result in a serious loss? That is either plain old stupid or a ginormous sense of entitlement. Both are bad.

There is nothing "broken" or "unbalanced" with freighter bumping as it can largely be avoided with current strategies in game.

I know this sounds repetitive, but holy **** Mike, you just seem downright determined to ignore this point. I have yet to see you even acknowledge it. In fact, you have steadfastly denied you are advocating for incompetent play when it is quite clear that is a significant part of the problem.

To recapitulate my earlier recapitulation....

So, to recapitulate, the ganking community is...

• Providing "school of hard knocks" type of lessons to players
• They even show how to avoid ganks.
• They are a decent and welcoming community that will show players how to gank...and avoid them with first hand experience.

But gankers are awful real life psychopaths, so it's okay to send them inappropriate in game messages.

And bumping is bad because it is applied to people who are imprudent when flying a specific type of ship.

Do I understand the issues correctly?

Tell me where the above is wrong Mike.

Again, this is where talking to other players comes in handy. Also, pulling your head out of your own echo chamber and looking around at the rest of the game. These are players who are so self-absorbed they don't realize that there is a Burn X event going in and wander right into the kill box and then wonder what happened. Seriously, is stuffing 7 billion ISK worth of Stuff™ into your freighter fit with cargo expanders, and travelling through a 0.5 system, notorious for ganks BTW, without a webbing ship let alone a scout a reasonable thing to do? Please answer that question.

And look at zkillboard, they have a special section on freighters getting killed. You can see where ships are getting killed quite easily and who is doing the killing.

Or how about googling, "How to kill a freighter eve online"? Oh look a result.

These guys are living under the proverbial rock when it comes to playing the game...and it comes back to bite them. They have managed to figure out other non-intuitive parts of the game, but how to kill their ship full of everything they own...suddenly they become completely idiotic in the extreme.



Really, they are flying solo? Bravo Sierra. I bet they are on comms, I bet they have a scout bird dogging the target. I bet they even have other people in other systems as well, probably covering most of the incoming gates. Then there is the entire gank fleet as well. They are the antithesis of solo.



They are not tackled. Their warp engines sill work. The could warp to another member in their fleet that is alignment with the bumping ship or a book mark. A well timed webbing might also still work. But they'd need somebody other than themselves in their fleet.



More Bravo Sierra, now anyone passing buy can shoot a ship that has minimal tank and is basically fit for speed and agility. This was written either out of sheer idiocy (which I don't believe) or complete mendaciousness. And the current system is balanced in that there easy to implement solutions. Look to gank a freighter you need somewhere near 40 or 50 guys depending on the fit on the freighter. You'll need a guy scanning ships, a guy to keep and eye on the target, probably a few more scouts here and there and then the gank fleet itself and the bumper. All the freighter needs is 1 dude in a scout ship and to pay attention and to not overload your freighter. There if far more effort for the gankers than the freighter pilot. But it is still not balanced. Bravo Sierra.



So people will no longer go those 20 jumps and find something else to do (possibly out of game) or they'll grit their teeth and manually do it since autopilot could very well get you blown up. Even auto-piloting a few jumps could be suicidal since the hacking could take place anywhere.

And you are again missing the point of auto-piloting. By itself it is not bad. So a guy wants to auto-pilot his BS, fine I don't care. He wants to auto-pilot in a noob ship or shuttle...I don't care. But if you are going to overload your freighter, fit no tank, and then use the auto-pilot...that is taking a huge risk. There should be a possible penalty for that...but not according to you. The people currently imposing that penalty should be forced to take to low sec or be flagged as a criminal. That is a complete load of horse crap.

Its not a criminal act.

You have several very easy to use counters to bumping, use them.

Have you looked at the common routes between trade hubs? Redirect to lowsec is nearly impossible.

Take the Jita->Amarr route through Niarja. The closest that route gets to lowsec is the system Perimeter, which is 2 jumps away. Niarja itself, the main gank site along that route, is 4 jumps from the nearest lowsec.

So your idea would make the Jita->Amarr run pretty much 100% safe for autopiloting freighters, as the person redirecting the autopilot has lots of fails possible in their hack.

Not with bumping though Mike...

You keep arguing it should, but the Dev's have not seen fit to change it. And why should they, bumping is not like actual aggression, while it can hamper a ships alignment in some instances it does not do anything like shut down warp drives, prevent targeting or do actual damage.

Note that your narrative works both ways.