Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I simply don't agree with your evaluation. People will always like free-roaming, hunting for targets, and feel the owners of their space. The people that would come to the arenas would be A) people that is temporarily bored of other aspects of the game AND has the cash to afford losing some ships on them, or B) A few tens or hundreds of individuals who would devote to them "hard-core mode" and make a career as duelists. In turn the game would probably gain many more players attracted by the new competitive, e-sports oriented feature, and would retain (not lose due to un-subscription) even more. Even temporal unsubs (those who unsub for a few months due to RL issues) would certainly be reduced (it's better to have to convince a player in the arena to come to the Fleet, or not having that player in the game at all?).

You make pretty good points and I see some truth behind them, but I simply think you vastly overestimate the effects arenas would have on the universe as a whole, and that's why I disagree.

Does mining detract from incursions? Do Mission running detract from anomaly clearing in 0.0? You could probably say that a percentage of people who does mining would turn to Incursions if Mining was not in the game, and it would be true. But we have both, and many more PvE activities, and all of them have their good share of people devoted to them. Everything balances out, as it always did in EvE.

TL;DR: I think the reduction of players drawn to arenas from other aspects of the game is vastly overestimated. It wouldn't amount to more than a small percentage of the playerbase, and on the other hand would both bring new players into the game, and help far more players stay around for longer.

I could not have listed the benefits better myself, except for tying the function of the whole setup into the wider game world.

Seriously. Read that.

The part you are missing is that games like that do exist, and we are playing EVE anyway. Some will not want to come out, some won't want to go in. Sandbox.

It still bills down to fear of losing playmates to something more fun. Make your space more attractive. She's current PvP model sucks balls. I don't blame people for wanting better.

My space is attractive as hell for PVP. Many people come to Querious to have fun with us: PL, Germans, even CFC moved a department down to Delve, close to Querious. We are doing everything we can to make Querious a fun place to roam into. What you bemoan, however, are people like CFC and PL, who have nothing better to do than to hide the sun behind their blobs. However, people still flock to them, because they provide risk-free, stable and safe environments for their EVE life -- the contrary to what EVE life should be. And your (I generalized every supporter of the arena into the "your") arenas nurture these people, they remove the need to change because there is no reason left that could require change. I blame people for wanting a relief from their own incompetence and convenience-drive. The game mechanics that are available are fine, what is lacking are people to use them and create better. Giving them better just like that without any effort on their side to change their behavior is not going to do good to the game. Examples as above.

So, you need to heavily restrict the usefulness and remove everything people expect from PVP of arenas in order to not harm the overall open-world PVP of the game?

Players are already very interested in well working groups because they allow them in the open-world arenas to achieve very commendable things. It is actually essential to have a well rounded team to achieve great things in EVE. No arenas are necessary for that to achieve. The only thing necessary is a reversal of the attitude changes of recent years in players. Special arenas with heavy restrictions are not the suitable way to go over the already existing open-world arenas. And these arenas will also not draw in the players the game needs, they will only draw in the players the game does not need, as outlined above. In fact, even despite the heavy restrictions that you suggest, arenas would take away from the need for more organization, communication and skill because you can just fly solo in arenas and only fight solo fights. Even despite no killmails and no loot, people are primarily interested in the PVP and they get that PVP in the arenas, without the risk and uncertainty that they face in the open-world arenas. You do not need communication or organization for that and communication and organization is exactly the kind of effort that the players you (I generalize again, as above) see joining the game because of arenas are exactly those people who do not want to put that effort into the game. In other words: The wrong kind of players.

That has never happened in any game with open world pvp and an arena. Once the arena is in place the world pvp is abandoned and never returns.

Citation Needed

You listed some deeply flawed games with very poor development. That's hardly a measure of every game with an arena.

The strawman is strong with this one.

All the scenarios you show are not the games fault but your own.

Highsec:

You wait for hours to get a fight? So you want your content spoon fed to you? Because you cant muster up the initiative to go out and look for fights yourself. Maybe stop playing station games at major trade hubs and you wont have to deal with the scrublords and their neutral logi.

You get ganked if you are an appealing target not taking any precautions and auto piloting through space, mining afk, or flying an overly pimped ship with no support. Those are choices you make. Which i may add can be avoided if you bring friends to escort. You know MMO, multiplayer, not single player afk autopilot with no risk.

Lowsec:

Again, your fault you docked in a pirate or well traveled system, this is not the case in most LS systems. Its like complaining about burning yourself when you touch the heating element of a stove and then blame it on the stove. If you go into Tama or some other constantly camped/ganked system and are then surprised you are camped in station or come across a gate camp, thats on you.

Use your map and the data it provides. This is navigation 101 in avoiding gate camps. I can find a fight in LS in minutes. Again not the games fault you dont know how to use the map.

Oh, so you agree, we have arenas already in the game.. why add more?

Nullsec:

Again "waiting" for hours because you want your content spoon fed to you. Make your own fleet and go roaming. Cant get people? Roam solo. Not good enough to roam solo? Do it anyway and learn.

Again, use your star map to find where people are and fight them, camp them, harass until you get a fight. I heard about this fancy new module that disables services and really annoys nullbears. Entosis link i believe its called, try using it.

Not the games fault you only want to fight in blobs. That is a individual/corp/alliance level issue, not game.

Arena pvp is a terrible idea. Go on SiSi and play in those arenas and see how quickly things get boring. As mentionee by others this would kill roaming pvp and make the thousands of systems in game a useless feature.

I was there. I left the game even before the NGE and all that crap. The game died to poor communication on the part of the developers, lack of content, a game full of half-finished features not even worthy of the "beta" tag, and poor balance. The game had already failed before the NGE, arenas had nothing to do with that.