Player Features and Ideas Discussion

1. Read the article about the last GClub SOTA to see your proof. Most people want to play the game, but the point of the sandbox is that you create what you want to play. Arenas remove that need and thus will be the primary source for content without people having do something, leading to my described outcome. EVE does not need more of these players.
2. See above. If you want regular content, you have do do something for it. And, taking from your post #377, RVB is a prime example for why game mechanical arenas are not needed in the game if people just put some effort into creating something on their own and maintain it. RVB also is hardly comparable to what your arena ideas want to introduce because anyone can interfere with the RVB business as well as actual players organize that.
3. If you would bother to read dev blogs, you would know that that point is fairly moot. While subs went down, activity stayed relatively stable overall and in fact production and destruction have increased (especially per logged in character), which suggests that only alt accounts were lapsed. Not many actual players were lost in the last couple of months.
4. Which then just dock up/pos up/citadel up and are out of your reach? And then they fly back without getting a kill? How long do you think they will do that? Or asked differently: How often will they do it compared to just fighting in arenas? The silky dreams of content creation that you see are nothing but that: dreams.

One last tip: Never again accuse me of not providing and creating content. Never again. Neither am I part of a big, overly powerful, content asphyxiating group, nor do I just sit around in station all day, waiting for something to happen. I am not afraid of losing targets, I am concerned that the wrong kind of players receives too much support, taking them away from my daily content creation. It is already a very tedious task to get enough people into a fleet to respond to another fleet and also it is a problem that people come online, ask "Something going on?" and once they receive no answer just log off again. These arenas would just amplify that in a different manner by having them online but not available for an open-world PVP response or by making them log off because they do not want to do other stuff than arenas.

Your view of the game is that it's not meant to be fun. It's meant to be a lot of hard work to build something meaningful. That's perfectly fine and noble.

It's not a view shared by most people logging on to play.

It's a game, it's meant to be fun. Most people play games for fun.

Making fun things in game is supposed to be what the devs do. They like to rely on emergent gameplay for this, because content is hard. They have allowed certain play styles to dominate because it made EVE stand out. Those play styles ultimately are only fun for the smaller subset of the player base, and actually harm the game experience for the majority.

Many among that majority would like to see an arena style system because it was the tournaments that drew them here in the first place, or because fun fights were on the list of things available, or a hundred other reasons that the predatory toxic play styles have spent almost all their energy ruining, one way or another.

You are right. Most people are unwilling to put a lot of hard work into enjoying EVE and just want to have fun. It's not an unreasonable stance.

Unless it's a sandbox game, where everyone makes of it what they want.

Only the devs can change the mechanics.

Relax, they are on your side. They come from the same minority you do.

It's not for anyone else to say what a given individual wants or does not want. If you don't like the idea, say so, say why, and either join the conversation or move on.

It's the third or fourth time I ask the same question. You are yet to answer it:

Then why oppose it something that improves something that already exists? Why isn't everybody dueling like crazy like you said they would?

yeh it does not improve things
if it does anything it would be limit and restrict
dueling is allready being done a lot
pvp is there if you want it and now how and where to look for it
dont get me wrong if it where to improve gameplay or the sandbox i would have plus 1 this
but........
it doesnt
we allready have tried to explain why
but it seems you just dont get it
you are not seeing the bigger picture
you are not understanding why it would restrict pvp in a broad sense
you dont understand the importance of risk reward gameplay
that 50% chance of getting blown up is not something that this arena would add
that chance is allready there as soon as you undock
the great unknown of exploring space is a core element in this game
arenas would limit that
players are like water they will go the way of least resistance
please try to understand that i dont say this for personal reasons
i dont know you nor do i want to or care
tbh this is a game that consumes a lot of time
now ccp could make it so that it wont consume a lot of time
but do you really want that
do you really want another battlefield /call of duty /destiny game
now i know those are diffrent types of games but reallity is by implementing arenas eve will become a simple minded shooter with no depth to it
so harshly put if you dont have a lot of time then this game is not for you
now i would suggest other games but since ive been playing eve (2010) i dont play other games anymore

Another long batch of words that pretty much just says "it will be more fun than being my target"

SWG. Before the arena was added it had healthy PvP all over the place. 2 weeks after the arena was added there was no PvP to be found. When they added jump to light speed (long before the nge and back when the game was growing) the had open world PvP and an arena called deep space. There was only pvp to be found in deep space.

The same pattern is found in all games that have both an arena and open world pvp. EVEs primary content is world pvp so adding an arena to EVE will be a disaster as like in all games before the arena will suck in all the pvp.

Because of what I told you 5 times already. Read my posts and stop asking questions that have been answered the umpteenth time. A hint, my last 2 long posts contain all the answers that you are looking for.


First off, if you continue to see EVE as a mere game, you won't find fun at all. Stop viewing EVE as a mere game, because it is not just a game, and you will have a lot more fun than before. Also, I beg your pardon. but I want to have fun and I am having fun in this game the way it is because I do something for my fun. Making this particular game fun is furthermore not the task of the developers, it is the task of the players. If a particular playstyle harms your EVE experience, it is your responsibility to do something about it. If you get constantly blobbed or hot dropped, go to a different area, play with other players to counter the blob/hot drop, use different tools, learn the particularities of an area to avoid fun spoilers. If predatory playstyles hurt you, hur them back. It is your responsibility to make your game fun. This is what makes EVE what EVE is.
However, if you believe that arenas would remove predatory toxicity from your playstyles, you are gravely mistaken and belong to the wrong kind of players just like Kenji or erg cz.


If you had read my post carefully and clicked a couple of links, you would have learned that EVE has very likely not lost half of its population. It has merely shed some useless alts and more actual players play the game.
Forthermore, arenas are neither new nor innovative and they do not fit into EVE. Awesome things that EVE needs are things that put players into open space, like meaningful agents or other task providing entities in landmarks, ruins, phenomena sites or agents travelling around the universe to respond to ingame events. But no one shows interest for these things that actually make the game better and feel more alive.

You can also accuse me of having a god complex as much as you want, it won't change the fact that the players who primarily consume content and do in no way want to be involved in creating it are the wrong kind of player to pander to in this game. Their increasing share on the overall playerbase are what makes the toxic predatory gameplay that Mike bemoan and your observed, albeit wrong according to the official interpretation of the numbers, decline in players online a thing in the first place. If no one wants to create something in the sandbox, there is nothing to do in the sandbox. Introducing not-new and not-innovative arenas in order to compensate lack of player actions is not the right way to cure that issue.

People are lazy and risk adverse, give them to option of instant, interference free, fair fights and they will flock to it and in the process EVE dies. Want an arena? Go play one of the many failed MMOs that went down that path.