EVE General Discussion

If the oink fits....

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In the same place where NS (and WH and LS) income figures are after you 'factor in' taking (or renting) the space, upgrading the space, defending the space, using capital ships and fuel to move faction-deadspace loot/ore/whatever back to high sec, moving ratting/mining ships (or at least their BPCs) down to null in the 1st place, making or importing drones/ammo/mining lasers as well as factoring in the inevitable losses you WILL take because you have no CONCORD to respond to aggressors for you unlike in high sec.

Oh,. I'm sorry, did I interrupt you while you were considering all the things you have to do in high sec to create wealth while not giving the same consideration to other parts of EVE which involves WAY more time, thought, organization (from multiple thousands of people) and effort? My apologies...

I agree that incursions give an absurd amount of ISK for little risk.

Null isn't comparable, though. You don't have to move anything. You just pay your alliance hauling service to do it for you. Simply factor in that cost. It's completely disingenuous to talk about the effort of the organization in null without acknowledging the benefits you get from it. You don't have CONCORD, but you do have intel channels with hundreds of players for dozens of systems out telling you when anyone who isn't blue is getting close. That's more powerful than CONCORD will ever be.

Also, easy with the sarcasm tiger. I was simply pointing out someone running three accounts doesn't make 235m isk/hr. He makes 1/3 of that. Do you disagree with that statement, or did you completely miss the point of what I said?

You do know what a hauling service is, don't you? That you can simply fly a ceptor to null and pay your alliances service to haul for you?

but somebody has to do it dont they? so that is the weakest argument ive ever heard

and farming incursions is easier tbh

While in high sec you pay nothing, you just fly your ship to where it needs to be. Thanks for helping my prove that point.



This is simply untrue. "intel channels" don't help you if a wormhole pops up in your system and raiders come popping out. "Intel channels" don't work if there is no one in the system where people pass through. CONCORD works all the time, automatically, where people are watching or not.

And it's really funny to see someone type the words "It's completely disingenuous to talk about the effort of the organization in null without acknowledging the benefits you get from it. " while not acknowledging the truth of how much high sec helps you.

I posted links to high sec players who have demonstrated the issue. Where is the evidence of what you believe?



Your point is wrong. Assets totalling 235 million isk went into Wallets (and Journals) controlled by the player known as Arthur Aihaken. That they didn't go into ONE wallet/journal he controlled is irrevelvant. When in null triple boxing a mach and 2 ishtars and making 180isk mil per hour, that's MY isk, just like the isk and LP he generates is his.

The real difference is the 1st link I posted, while Arthur and I are paying for 3 accounts to generate that isk, the writer of that guide in the 1st link is only paying for 1 (plus the overhead invovled with gathering the right ships and fits and the occasional burner mission ship loss). That demonstrates a further (but still high sec centric) imbalance.

AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH NULLSEC

mission running is usually done solo in npc nullsec so forget anything about established corps and think about people who run pirate missions in nullsec who are not part of "established" groups

The 1st link. Allow me to copy/paste for you:


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While in high you can make more, SOLO, in safety.

Again, thanks for the help proving the point, you've been invaluable.

I was simply addressing your claim that there is personal risk in moving ships to null. No need to turn a simple statement into an argument.



Why do you hold sov in a system in null that no one lives in/spends time in? Maybe that's evidence of an empire that's bigger than it should be more than anything.

I do agree that HS helps you. Obviously. It's designed to help. I'm just pointing out that living in a well established null alliance is extremely safe for PvE-ers.

And why someone wouldn't immediately check what a new sig is and report it in intel if it's a WH is beyond me...



I disagree completely with that point. isk/hr is a per account figure, not per person. If one person with one account can make 100m isk/hr, and a second person has three accounts making a net total of 100m isk/hr, those are two completely different scenarios.

You yourself admitted null ratting can give more isk/hr than incursions. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=399622


Look, to me null vs HS isn't about increasing the ISK you can make as much as it is about helping to build an empire. People who care about maxing isk/hr are missing something in the game (in my opinion). To some being in a fleet and working together to take on difficult PvE content (incursions) is fun. Great. To others being solo/in very small groups in deep dangerous space in a player run empire (null ratting) is fun. Great for them as well. I've done null ratting and incursions. They are both fun for completely different reasons, and none of those have to do with isk.

Jenn - I'm not trying to fight, not trying to prove you wrong. Just having a conversation. Tone can be hard to read online, so I didn't mean to come across argumentative.