Player Features and Ideas Discussion

How? It does not stop it. It's a very mild repercussion that almost none would take advantage of. The people ganking always like to scream "but the non-consensual PvP must flow!"... It just allows more PvP. Surely that's not so much risk it would deter a gank?

It doesn't. Bumping is not aggression. Knock off your lying already.

Ok, and I am telling you that CCP has designed the game specifically to allow criminals to be active in "high security" space. -10s are outlaws, free to shoot and chased by infallible NPCs. They are literally as vulnerable as they can be.

As was said earlier in this thread locking them out of stations will do nothing but hurt new/casual/solo players and lowsec PvPers. Even if you did, these citadels are tailor made ganking platforms which will be a boon to gankers come spring.

High security space is not "secure space" nor has it ever been. You have been intentionally put at risk to other players there by the game developer so deal with it.

Of course you can. I play this game primarily as a criminal and pirate where I do my best to explode other players and take their stuff. I have destroyed hundreds of billions of ships and taken billions, or maybe even tens of billions in booty from those ships. That seems pretty piratical to me.

I play the game as CCP clearly intended when they built the criminal/CrimeWatch/CONCORD mechanics. Why do some players have so much trouble accepting that this is how the game was designed to work?

You can fight back. Even is an open world game and all the tools available to the pirates are available to their prey.

The reality is bumping went away, carebears would just find something else to complain about. Gankers would adapt, freighters would be much safer, but yet still explode, and then people would be on these forums the next month clamouring for yet another "one more nerf" because they lost an even more expensive freighter to pirates.

Lol, that is exactly what the current highsec mechanics are for outlaws in highsec. You can attack them, but they cannot fight back as the faction police will show up and prevent a real fight by destroying them. I guess you are against the faction police as a mechanic then?

Regardless if they play your way or not, they are still trying to escape unprovoked aggression. That should never result in penalties, an aggressor never protected by Concord.

Assuming you bothered to read the thread, that's just being intentionally obtuse to try to get in a zinger.

If you didn't read the thread, go do that.

I am not typing out the entire thing yet again because you don't agree with the reasoning or can't be bothered to read.

So Zing! I guess. You got me there.

Dear me. Zinger again. Or you should go read. Either way, well done.

On one hand, you're right. It would encourage some more PvP. I for one would be interested in taking down some bump Machs.

On the other, it's still a nerf. The Mach is traditionally an armour tanked ship, but a bump Mach's lows are used for a generous helping of nanos and istabs. Now, either the Mach pilot forces a square block through a round hole and fits a shield tank or he sacrifices agility for a agility-crippling armour tank. Either way this is a nerf to bumping.

Add to the fact that the bumper is putting ~450M ISK on the line in his suspect ship and we have a tempting target that not only care bears and fail freighter pilots want dead.

Also, a single ship with a short point can end bump tackle, even if he doesn't destroy the Mach, meaning missed opportunities.

So yes, your proposal may encourage PvP, but at a significant cost to bumpers to the point I have a strong doubt that Machs will continue to be used as bump ships.

Once again, seeing as a nerf still hasn't been justified in the first place, it's not reasonable such a change be implemented.

I think deep down, the hard spot with bumping is this: You can use a mach to bump a freighter which basically holds it in space unable to warp which literally (that means for real) means you have tackled a freighter in HS w/out concord intervention. The point of this concordless tackle is to allow the gank squad to log in, assemble and do their thing. That's the rub, you can tackle a guy w/out breaking any concord rules.

Here's where I think folks that have a reasonable understanding of the game get their panties all bunched up: The gank squad isn't even online when the tackle goes down. They are off carrier ratting, DOTA or whatever nerdy persuits they prefer to do full time. The mach bumping bypasses all the concord response timers allowing the gankers somewhat unlimited time to log in and assemble. If you look at it from the perspective of the catalist pilot - mach bumping promotes and allows AFK game play by the ganking CHARACTERS. They don't have to be logged in, coiled and ready to pounce. They just need to be pingable. (Which is kind of funny as the CODE anti afk crowd use this to do exactly what they claim to be playing against). The gank crew only needs a neutral scout (which is fine) and a bumper (which is also fine), but they don't need the actual gank pilots to be online or even near a computer (which is NOT fine).

So, looking beyond 'ganking is ebil' (because it's a reasonable play style) and looking beyond 'concord should protect me in all situations' (because they are consequences, not prevention) and all the other poorly framed or felt arguments that have been swirling around this for years, the actual reason mach bumping sux is because it allows AFK gameplay by freighter gankers. They can do an infinite number of other things while the bumping is in progress, take their time to assemble and then gank at their leisure.

Nerfing freighter bumping wouldn't nerf HS (just one more time) it would nerf the ability of freighter gankers to play by ping in lieu of being logged in and ready to go.

Sure there are counters to bumping (that range from reasonable to rediculously unworkable). The point isn't that there are available counters, the point is that the mach bumping the freighter for 20 minutes until the gank arrives is promoting AFK and/or play by ping ganking.

I don't want ganking nerfed - I want the afk / play by ping garbage that freighter bumping promotes/allows to be removed as an option.

I mean, seriously, that is the single stupidest thing I have ever read on these forums, and that includes the tripe that Infinity Ziona or Dinsdale used to post.

"Gankers should not be able to just log in and kill somebody, but freighters totally have the right to be afk without consequence."

Nevermind that the heavy handed criminal flag penalties are exactly why gankers behave like that. Nope, it can't possibly be yet another repercussion of the overbearing nerfs to real gameplay, we must just need to dramatically buff the safety of afk people in highsec yet again.

I honestly can't believe you actually copped to that level of hypocrisy. Nothing you say will ever be taken seriously again, although it's not like you had much credibility to begin with.

to get it away from the gate so it cant crash it? get it out of range of sentry guns? sorta like a murderer dragging a victim up a dark alley