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Changes to gridsize

First post
Author
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#121 - 2015-11-17 09:41:58 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Any ETA on tower anchoring fixes?


Today, 17th November 2015.

We got the fix in late yesterday afternoon so did not have time to push it to Singularity.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#122 - 2015-11-17 13:11:24 UTC
Ok, noice. This time the tower anchored flawlessly.

Well, with the only exception being it just happens to be on grid with a stationLol

Osmon 6-6 specifically.
Sjugar02
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#123 - 2015-11-17 13:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sjugar02
The new structures will be awesome and if grids need to become bigger to accomodate them, that's fine.

Is there any other reason grids are becoming bigger? Huge grids will break things in interesting ways, eve has been developed with 250k grids in mind for more than a decade.

Warp deceleration will mean that fcs have more time to warp out before enemies land. The difference will likely be multiple seconds.

Bubbles can drag a fleet thousands of kilometers away from their intended destination. (Interesting how that will work with deadly structures that can be placed almost anywhere)

And probably a hundred things I can't think of.

Edit: Huge grids create problems and I don't see a reason to make them bigger than needed for the huge structures.

Seeing someone land in a safespot 5000 km away instead of 300 km doesn't make eve a better game. You still can't lock them or do anything about them.

Grid-fu will still be a thing, it will just be different.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2015-11-17 13:44:45 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Ok, noice. This time the tower anchored flawlessly.

Well, with the only exception being it just happens to be on grid with a stationLol

Osmon 6-6 specifically.


I am going to come and have a look at you Big smile

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2015-11-17 13:51:57 UTC
Sjugar02 wrote:
The new structures will be awesome and if grids need to become bigger to accomodate them, that's fine.

Is there any other reason grids are becoming bigger? Huge grids will break things in interesting ways, eve has been developed with 250k grids in mind for more than a decade.

Warp deceleration will mean that fcs have more time to warp out before enemies land. The difference will likely be multiple seconds.

Bubbles can drag a fleet thousands of kilometers away from their intended destination. (Interesting how that will work with deadly structures that can be placed almost anywhere)

And probably a hundred things I can't think of.


The reason is to accomodate larger structures, but this opens up more options for other teams to do some crazy things if they want to in the future because as you have pointed out EVE has been developed with the 250k grid size in mind for more than a decade.

In testing so far the grids do not appear to be as broken as we thought they might possibly break, promising so far.

Bubbles will be able to drag fleets thousands of kilometers away however you have to be way more accurate in your anchoring of the bubble and if they get out they can easily warp back to station or gate, so I have it in my head that people might not anchor them much farther than they already do,but you folks love to prove us wrong. Lol

FC's are going to have a little more time to see a fleet coming, but only really slow warping ships are really going to be giving THAT much of a warning, interceptors and the like are still going to be on top of them super fast. It might mean adjusting tactics slightly, but war is ever evolving and if you miss them on d-scan it might be too late anyway.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#126 - 2015-11-17 15:57:24 UTC
The system of ghesis planet 5 has a lot of stations and moons within 4 to 5000 km of each other.
I have previously seen the pos from the station, so with expanded grids, it will probably be a permanent feature
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#127 - 2015-11-17 19:11:56 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:

I am going to come and have a look at you Big smile

With the mirror happening, my new address with the same issue is Lour 5-13.
Fzhal
#128 - 2015-11-17 20:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Fzhal
CCP Claymore wrote:
Bubbles will be able to drag fleets thousands of kilometers away however you have to be way more accurate in your anchoring of the bubble and if they get out they can easily warp back to station or gate, so I have it in my head that people might not anchor them much farther than they already do,but you folks love to prove us wrong.

True, because the main cause of the vector variation is that you come out of warp up to 2km away from your destination and there is some manual piloting involved to keep going along the same vector.
(Assumption: EVE uses the absolute/accurate vector to a destination when calculating whether a drag bubble's area will come into play.)
Yes, the further you go past the destination, the greater degree of variation from the absolute vector. However, the closer you get to the midpoint between the origin and destination, the variation from the absolute vector lessens very quickly quite significantly. Bubble accuracy should not be much of a problem if they put the drag bubbles before the gates. Warp to gate with slow BS, BM when grid appears, warp back to new BM and place drag bubble 3-7 kkm from gate, optionally place large bubbles at drag bubble and between gate.

Dragging ships to a bubble so far away isn't a very big change in most tactical situations. The only significant difference would be that ships on the other side of the jump gate would not be in range to engage the enemy for the extra time it would take them to warp to their ally. So... this would delay people on other side of gate by an extra 12-30+ seconds I guess?

While this is already possible on a smaller scale... Hypothetically... It also allows for some pretty annoying delay tactics by Dictors/Hictors. In a system with few celestials, or one gate is on opposite side of system, bubbles could be used to delay a fleet from moving to their destination for a few minutes... The fleet would have to move literally 50m km or combat probe the interdicting ship and warp to engage it. If the interdicting ship is speed fit, it would be near impossible to catch the interdictor.
Fzhal
#129 - 2015-11-17 20:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Fzhal
Hmmm, I just realized another new possibility in those choke point systems.
Citadel Bubbling or Home Bubbling (Hobbling) - Placing bubbles and a combat-capable structure on grid with a gate so that ships are forced to first warp within range of the structure's defenses in order to get to other parts of a solar system.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2015-11-18 06:53:11 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
How much bigger?

MUCH BIGGER!


Thank god. I hate when I'm making dictor drag bubble locations um, away from shooty things, and I end up going off grid before I get out of shooty-thing range.
Esnaelc Sin'led
La Forge.
Toilet Paper.
#131 - 2015-11-18 16:48:45 UTC
Could it be possible again, that thanks to this extended grid made possible, ships will be resized, and scales re-evaluated ?
I assume the response will be "up to the gfx-design team" ? :D

grmbl ^^
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#132 - 2015-11-18 17:12:03 UTC
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
Could it be possible again, that thanks to this extended grid made possible, ships will be resized, and scales re-evaluated ?
I assume the response will be "up to the gfx-design team" ? :D

grmbl ^^


It could be possible but this would entirely be on the graphics team. That is certainly not something that Team Game of Drones will be doing with the changes to grid size.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#133 - 2015-11-19 12:43:16 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
By the sound of #3...

"3. Anchoring POS might have some issues, we are aware of this."

...It sounds like two+ moons could be on the same grid!
Then also two posses who shoot each other ? Twisted

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Orions Lord
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2015-11-19 13:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Orions Lord
Is the minimal grid size also going to be increased?

Otherwise it will be fairly easy to dent the grid inside (making a kind of tunnel) making areas you can appear and disappear.
Even in the middle of the grid.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#135 - 2015-11-20 13:45:02 UTC
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
Could it be possible again, that thanks to this extended grid made possible, ships will be resized, and scales re-evaluated ?


Changes to ship sizes are unlikely, either as a result of this, or at all. I can't think of a way that ship size interacts with grid size in any meaningful way.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Blue mistique
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2015-11-22 00:04:08 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Has a thought been given as to how much longer it will take a ship to land on grid with this.
Especially Battleships. You will have massive amounts of warning when something appears on your overview.
So it will be a lot harder to surprise someone on grid to tackle them.

I.E. Could a warping ship not appear on grid till it actually exits warp properly. Not just based on distance.


We can't do that because the battleship is still on grid.

At the moment we will not be changing anything around this, players can still see you coming on d-scan long before you ever land on the grid.



Unless you are flying a combat recon??? (curse etc) as they are D-Scan immune?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2015-11-22 09:52:19 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Assuming the size of grids is going to be like 1 million KM, it would be amazing if in this release or next to add an overview filter option or tab to filter out select items over X distance. This means if we see ships and stuff on the overview that is 1000km away, well out of targeting range, we can hid them from our overview.

This is mainly for when/if you filter by Name, type, and so on. It will not display people who are beyond combat support (not counting off grid boosters). You will still see them in space and their tags, just hiding them from overview.


I shall ask CCP Karkur if this something that could potentially happen. Not saying that it will, but I can always ask.
+1 on that, thanks.

Would also be super-cool to have small line breaks on the overview when sorting by distance, separating objects on-grid from objects off-grid.

Or further separating objects on grid between in-targeting range and out-of-targeting range.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#138 - 2015-11-22 21:43:33 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
Could it be possible again, that thanks to this extended grid made possible, ships will be resized, and scales re-evaluated ?
I assume the response will be "up to the gfx-design team" ? :D

grmbl ^^


It could be possible but this would entirely be on the graphics team. That is certainly not something that Team Game of Drones will be doing with the changes to grid size.


Could you walk over to their office pod and ask them, nicely, to update the size of supercarriers? They are quite small for what they can do.

If you do that, and it gets in in the next patch or two, i'll send you some good alcohol for yourself + the graphics team :)

Been around since the beginning.

Vespula Vulgaris
Industrial Waste Management
#139 - 2015-11-23 11:52:28 UTC
Will this normalize grid sizes? At the moment, I imagine a grid is around 250 km if I'm sitting in a safe spot(?), whereas a stations grid is much larger. Will all grids be the same size with this change, seeing as the undock is now a tiny fraction of the grid?
Kosetzu
Aeons Multiplied
#140 - 2015-11-23 13:56:22 UTC
Vespula Vulgaris wrote:
Will this normalize grid sizes? At the moment, I imagine a grid is around 250 km if I'm sitting in a safe spot(?), whereas a stations grid is much larger. Will all grids be the same size with this change, seeing as the undock is now a tiny fraction of the grid?

Grid-fu still behaves like before, so you can still expand grids in the same way. It's just 7800km radi that is the default one now, won't be less than that (except some barriers between pos/station to prevent same grid).