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W-Space content creation

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RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#1 - 2015-11-18 01:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: RcTamiya
Heyya,

I'm living in w-space for a very long time now and as such i want to bring up an issue, which i think should get some attention to improve w-space pvp. As we all know, low-class groups can compete with larger sub-capital fleets, but it's impossible for a C4 corp to escalate on a C5 corp or a C4 corp can fight with cap support in a C5 vs another C2 corp (just as example) and here a small change can have huge impact, with the current meta, a low-class corp has to bail frequently, if bigger groups in a C5/C6 escalate with more than 2 Capitals on them (only in rare circumstances killing them is a valid option).
Because of this I'd suggest that Capitals are allowed to jump from a C2, C3 and C4 into a C5 and C6, however they're only allowed to jump back for i.e. 1 hour, this doesn't allow Capital seeding into C2, C3 & C4, limits you to 1 cap while C5 and C6 can field 3, it does allow to move out Capitals out of those Wormholes (i look at you capital rebalancepatch) and should reduce abusing to an absolute minimum.

Which Wormholes should be affected?

-> C2 to C5 static
-> C2 to C6 static
-> C4 to C5 static
-> C4 to C6 static
-> C2 to C5 dynamic
-> C2 to C6 dynamic
-> C4 to C5 dynamic
-> C4 to C6 dynamic
-> C3 to C5 dynmaic
-> C3 to C6 dynamic

Which not ?

-> C5 to C2 static
-> C5 to C4 static
-> C5 to C3 static
-> C6 to C2 static
-> C6 to C3 static
-> C6 to C4 static
-> ALL K-Space connections to C2-C4

As result, you have to build a Capital inside a C2/C3/C4 and are allowed to jump it out into a C5/C6, this Capital now has 1 hour (discussable though, but not too much to prevent abusing) to jump back into it's home.

You can use that for:

-> escalating into a pvp fight
-> starting a pvp-fight with a Capital (baiting)
-> solo dread farming (yes i know, i hope capital rebalance is making that one 1000000% impossible)
-> move out your Capitals when you're leaving your wormhole, IF you get those connections
-> move out your Capital if capitalrebalance is making your Capital useless for your wormholeclass

Suggestions/Discussion very welcome ;)

Regards
RC
Thom Mangum
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#2 - 2015-11-18 02:11:27 UTC
ok
Timm3h
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#3 - 2015-11-18 02:51:30 UTC
I have absolutely no clue what this post is trying to convey other than your lack of foresight.

If you think for even a second that a change like this won't destroy low-class wormhole life, then you should probably buy a character resculpt token and open your eyes a bit more. You would have a difficult time naming any c5/c6 corp (TLC woops nvm) that wouldn't wait an hour to put two dreads into a low-class wormhole and destroy any towers with impunity.

Even if you were to prevent high-class caps from jumping into low-class, but not the other way around, you would still not create content. Instead, you would create more instances where one group would just disengage and no content is found. What you're proposing is using capital ships as an impetus to create PvP on wormholes, where people can jump out at any time to avoid ship loss (with the exception of illiterates that don't understand a 5 minute polarity timer), except that the only people that would fight a cap under those circumstances are the people with enough caps to punch you in the pecker so hard you'll never jump a capital into a c5 again.

Regards,
Captain Tim
Diplomancer of White Stag
342 GBP
Tender Bender (a bag a day keeps the bad posts away)
Maqari Kinraysuwa
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#4 - 2015-11-18 03:02:08 UTC
Thanks for making me even more ******** than I already was.
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#5 - 2015-11-18 03:13:14 UTC
Timm3h wrote:
I have absolutely no clue what this post is trying to convey other than your lack of foresight.

If you think for even a second that a change like this won't destroy low-class wormhole life, then you should probably buy a character resculpt token and open your eyes a bit more. You would have a difficult time naming any c5/c6 corp (TLC woops nvm) that wouldn't wait an hour to put two dreads into a low-class wormhole and destroy any towers with impunity.

Even if you were to prevent high-class caps from jumping into low-class, but not the other way around, you would still not create content. Instead, you would create more instances where one group would just disengage and no content is found. What you're proposing is using capital ships as an impetus to create PvP on wormholes, where people can jump out at any time to avoid ship loss (with the exception of illiterates that don't understand a 5 minute polarity timer), except that the only people that would fight a cap under those circumstances are the people with enough caps to punch you in the pecker so hard you'll never jump a capital into a c5 again.

Regards,
Captain Tim
Diplomancer of White Stag
342 GBP
Tender Bender (a bag a day keeps the bad posts away)


either i wasn'T clear enough or you didn't read the post though...

I said C5 caps can't jump into c2-c4 if they aint build in there, how do you want get dreads into that low-class wh (like you named TLC would do (i doubt it)).
-> only caps build inside that c2-c4 are allowed to jump out and back in (with a time limit, as example 1 hour).

Yes in fact that's true, i want to give low class groups the ability to comit capitals IF they want to, but limit it to c5 and c6 connections only, to make abusing (seeding capitals int oa c2-c4) impossible.
Thom Mangum
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#6 - 2015-11-18 03:16:09 UTC
This is a very good idea please make this forum a safe space and stop harrassing.
Taron Skjem
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-11-18 03:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Taron Skjem
timm3h, if you comment do me the favor and read the text. if you did and still dont get the content, just dont comment it.


we talked about rcs idea for weeks now and we all think that a change there would be awesome and would give the opportunity to bring more content back to j-space. there is nothing more then a caps creating pvp content in j-space. and giving the chance to field them does give the chance to see more of them.

also smaller entities would have the chance to "counter escalate" when c5 dropqueens decide to change tactics from "equal numbers" to "equal numbers + triage". on the other hand larger entities would also have the chance to provoke more corps to field in caps. and what about lowclass corps using a c5 as battlefield between their homesystems?

i think that most people who do live in j-space (and do have at least a bit awareness for what's going on) should see the opportunities. as i said: i do support this completely.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#8 - 2015-11-18 03:27:03 UTC
Someones a little upset their capblob in lowclass wont be useful with the changes anymore


I hear if you strip mods and self destruct the insurance payout is good!
Taron Skjem
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-11-18 03:32:45 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
Someones a little upset their capblob in lowclass wont be useful with the changes anymore


I hear if you strip mods and self destruct the insurance payout is good!


on the other hand you give highclass citizen the chance to catch more juice hostile caps.
Timm3h
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#10 - 2015-11-18 03:34:24 UTC
Taron Skjem wrote:
timm3h, if you comment do me the favor and read the text. if you did and still dont get the content, just dont comment it.


we talked about rcs idea for weeks now and we all think that a change there would be awesome and would give the opportunity to bring more content back to j-space. there is nothing more then a caps creating pvp content in j-space. and giving the chance to field them does give the chance to see more of them.

also smaller entities would have the chance to "counter escalate" when c5 dropqueens decide to change tactics from "equal numbers" to "equal numbers + triage". on the other hand larger entities would also have the chance to provoke more corps to field in caps. and what about lowclass corps using a c5 as battlefield between their homesystems?

i think that most people who do live in j-space (and do have at least a bit awareness for what's going on) should see the opportunities. as i said: i do support this completely.


If a corporation named SUPREME MATHEMATICS, belonging to the band of fart, thinks pushing a single dread into "c5 dropqueens" is going to change anything other than the reddish hue of your killboard isk efficiency, you should have a literate human being double-check your math.

ADDITIONALLY, I did read the content. Several times. If your bud had read my comment, he would see where I talked about the same limitations that he did (low-class jumps into high, with a prevention on the other way around) and pointed out only one of the ways where a system like this could prevent more content than it creates.

The amount of time you spent thinking about this concept does not contribute to the validity of your proposition, instead it serves as a cynosure to the rest of the people reading this unfortunate collection of keyboard strokes that you and your ilk are completely unaware of how different low-class and high-class wormholes are, solely because of the addition of capital ships (when it comes to PvP at least).

If you want high-class content, quit complaining and move to a high-class wormhole.

Regards,
Can't Timtam the Flim Flam
Saint of Oruze Cruise
342 GBP
Shekel Savior
Hostile Cap Juicer
Grm Makentor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-11-18 03:34:35 UTC
I enjoy a big glass of hostile capital juice daily
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#12 - 2015-11-18 03:34:40 UTC
Taron Skjem wrote:
Lt Shard wrote:
Someones a little upset their capblob in lowclass wont be useful with the changes anymore


I hear if you strip mods and self destruct the insurance payout is good!


on the other hand you give highclass citizen the chance to catch more juice hostile caps.

Typically sleepers get ruskie caps before us
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#13 - 2015-11-18 04:32:59 UTC
Timm3h wrote:
Taron Skjem wrote:
timm3h, if you comment do me the favor and read the text. if you did and still dont get the content, just dont comment it.


we talked about rcs idea for weeks now and we all think that a change there would be awesome and would give the opportunity to bring more content back to j-space. there is nothing more then a caps creating pvp content in j-space. and giving the chance to field them does give the chance to see more of them.

also smaller entities would have the chance to "counter escalate" when c5 dropqueens decide to change tactics from "equal numbers" to "equal numbers + triage". on the other hand larger entities would also have the chance to provoke more corps to field in caps. and what about lowclass corps using a c5 as battlefield between their homesystems?

i think that most people who do live in j-space (and do have at least a bit awareness for what's going on) should see the opportunities. as i said: i do support this completely.


If a corporation named SUPREME MATHEMATICS, belonging to the band of fart, thinks pushing a single dread into "c5 dropqueens" is going to change anything other than the reddish hue of your killboard isk efficiency, you should have a literate human being double-check your math.

ADDITIONALLY, I did read the content. Several times. If your bud had read my comment, he would see where I talked about the same limitations that he did (low-class jumps into high, with a prevention on the other way around) and pointed out only one of the ways where a system like this could prevent more content than it creates.

The amount of time you spent thinking about this concept does not contribute to the validity of your proposition, instead it serves as a cynosure to the rest of the people reading this unfortunate collection of keyboard strokes that you and your ilk are completely unaware of how different low-class and high-class wormholes are, solely because of the addition of capital ships (when it comes to PvP at least).

If you want high-class content, quit complaining and move to a high-class wormhole.

Regards,
Can't Timtam the Flim Flam
Saint of Oruze Cruise
342 GBP
Shekel Savior
Hostile Cap Juicer



1. you seem to have 0 knowledge of tactics and how huge the impact of one dread or triage can have to a fight if you use it wisely with a setup supporting it

2. if you have never heard of us? fine, we're just a c2 corp, you're welcome to visit j121745, however if you run home don't troll the forums please ;)

3. i know pretty much everyhting i need to rate high-class and low-class content, pvp, tactics and all related things in the pve section, i give you one example: you find 2 domis and ping friends to kill them, they're 10 jumps out -> less likely they'll show up.
Tackle ONE Capital .... that's an entirely different story ;)
Expensive vessel beeing exposed ALLWAYS generate content for GROUPS.

4. as for our caps? our capitals are all post-capital-rebalance-prepared, we don't need to change anything on them *shrugs*

All I want is a less deserted w-space and giving small groups with a brain a tool for using capitals as tactical weapon (yes it DOES work Blink)

sorry we'll never ugprade to a higher-class, but that's a different story none of the changes are nessescary for our survival or gameplay, it's a bonus and is a change which effect also groups like adhc,tlc, wataha,......
Timm3h
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#14 - 2015-11-18 04:57:49 UTC
RcTamiya wrote:
Timm3h wrote:
Taron Skjem wrote:
timm3h, if you comment do me the favor and read the text. if you did and still dont get the content, just dont comment it.


we talked about rcs idea for weeks now and we all think that a change there would be awesome and would give the opportunity to bring more content back to j-space. there is nothing more then a caps creating pvp content in j-space. and giving the chance to field them does give the chance to see more of them.

also smaller entities would have the chance to "counter escalate" when c5 dropqueens decide to change tactics from "equal numbers" to "equal numbers + triage". on the other hand larger entities would also have the chance to provoke more corps to field in caps. and what about lowclass corps using a c5 as battlefield between their homesystems?

i think that most people who do live in j-space (and do have at least a bit awareness for what's going on) should see the opportunities. as i said: i do support this completely.


If a corporation named SUPREME MATHEMATICS, belonging to the band of fart, thinks pushing a single dread into "c5 dropqueens" is going to change anything other than the reddish hue of your killboard isk efficiency, you should have a literate human being double-check your math.

ADDITIONALLY, I did read the content. Several times. If your bud had read my comment, he would see where I talked about the same limitations that he did (low-class jumps into high, with a prevention on the other way around) and pointed out only one of the ways where a system like this could prevent more content than it creates.

The amount of time you spent thinking about this concept does not contribute to the validity of your proposition, instead it serves as a cynosure to the rest of the people reading this unfortunate collection of keyboard strokes that you and your ilk are completely unaware of how different low-class and high-class wormholes are, solely because of the addition of capital ships (when it comes to PvP at least).

If you want high-class content, quit complaining and move to a high-class wormhole.

Regards,
Can't Timtam the Flim Flam
Saint of Oruze Cruise
342 GBP
Shekel Savior
Hostile Cap Juicer



1. you seem to have 0 knowledge of tactics and how huge the impact of one dread or triage can have to a fight if you use it wisely with a setup supporting it

2. if you have never heard of us? fine, we're just a c2 corp, you're welcome to visit j121745, however if you run home don't troll the forums please ;)

3. i know pretty much everyhting i need to rate high-class and low-class content, pvp, tactics and all related things in the pve section, i give you one example: you find 2 domis and ping friends to kill them, they're 10 jumps out -> less likely they'll show up.
Tackle ONE Capital .... that's an entirely different story ;)
Expensive vessel beeing exposed ALLWAYS generate content for GROUPS.

4. as for our caps? our capitals are all post-capital-rebalance-prepared, we don't need to change anything on them *shrugs*

All I want is a less deserted w-space and giving small groups with a brain a tool for using capitals as tactical weapon (yes it DOES work Blink)

sorry we'll never ugprade to a higher-class, but that's a different story none of the changes are nessescary for our survival or gameplay, it's a bonus and is a change which effect also groups like adhc,tlc, wataha,......


1) The way you're choosing to apply the capital ship (to jump into a high-class WH for the intent of generating content) is not a huge impact. Understand this: if you jump a cap into a group that has no caps, chances are they will just leave. Jump through the hole, warp off: whatever it takes to disengage. If they have enough caps to engage your caps successfully, they will engage and you will be the ones jumping out or warping off. There is no content here. If warping and jumping is content to you, any nullsec alliance has this in spades.

2) I'll go fly into your c2 cataclysmic variable, especially with people begging for cap maneuverability (I wonder if you own carriers in a hole bonused for remote repair modules).

3) This isn't any sort of proof of you knowing "everyhting" you need to rate WH content. Anyone, including highsec turd-burglars, would froth at the mouth for a chance to appear on a capital killmail. Capitals generate content for groups, this is an undisputed fact. Except that the content you are describing is not mutual: is it fun for you to lose caps to high-class wh blobs? If you drop a dread on HK, you lose it. If you drop a dread on a small high-class WH group, they just disengage. This isn't a feature that grants you content, it is a feature that denies you content.

4) I'm not interested in your caps. That's why I live in low-class wormholes, and it's the reason a lot of corps live in low-class wormholes. I have the SP, game experience, and ISK to live in high-class wormholes. If I wanted to fly caps, I'd be in a C5/C6.

W-space isn't deserted, it's populated by loads of people. The trick isn't to drop a cap on them, it's to extract content from them with the tools you've already been given. W-space is deserted for idiots, but for the rest there are numerous opportunities to fight outnumbered and outgunned without resorting to a single capital ship. A change like this is nothing more than feeding capital ship killmails to high-class WH residents, and if you think it's anything else then you have my condolences.

Regards,
Tim
Oruze Cruise CEO
342 GBP
Master Baiter
Maqari Kinraysuwa
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#15 - 2015-11-18 04:59:35 UTC
same
Ross Lorax
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#16 - 2015-11-18 05:00:32 UTC
Timm3h wrote:
RcTamiya wrote:
Timm3h wrote:
Taron Skjem wrote:
timm3h, if you comment do me the favor and read the text. if you did and still dont get the content, just dont comment it.


we talked about rcs idea for weeks now and we all think that a change there would be awesome and would give the opportunity to bring more content back to j-space. there is nothing more then a caps creating pvp content in j-space. and giving the chance to field them does give the chance to see more of them.

also smaller entities would have the chance to "counter escalate" when c5 dropqueens decide to change tactics from "equal numbers" to "equal numbers + triage". on the other hand larger entities would also have the chance to provoke more corps to field in caps. and what about lowclass corps using a c5 as battlefield between their homesystems?

i think that most people who do live in j-space (and do have at least a bit awareness for what's going on) should see the opportunities. as i said: i do support this completely.


If a corporation named SUPREME MATHEMATICS, belonging to the band of fart, thinks pushing a single dread into "c5 dropqueens" is going to change anything other than the reddish hue of your killboard isk efficiency, you should have a literate human being double-check your math.

ADDITIONALLY, I did read the content. Several times. If your bud had read my comment, he would see where I talked about the same limitations that he did (low-class jumps into high, with a prevention on the other way around) and pointed out only one of the ways where a system like this could prevent more content than it creates.

The amount of time you spent thinking about this concept does not contribute to the validity of your proposition, instead it serves as a cynosure to the rest of the people reading this unfortunate collection of keyboard strokes that you and your ilk are completely unaware of how different low-class and high-class wormholes are, solely because of the addition of capital ships (when it comes to PvP at least).

If you want high-class content, quit complaining and move to a high-class wormhole.

Regards,
Can't Timtam the Flim Flam
Saint of Oruze Cruise
342 GBP
Shekel Savior
Hostile Cap Juicer



1. you seem to have 0 knowledge of tactics and how huge the impact of one dread or triage can have to a fight if you use it wisely with a setup supporting it

2. if you have never heard of us? fine, we're just a c2 corp, you're welcome to visit j121745, however if you run home don't troll the forums please ;)

3. i know pretty much everyhting i need to rate high-class and low-class content, pvp, tactics and all related things in the pve section, i give you one example: you find 2 domis and ping friends to kill them, they're 10 jumps out -> less likely they'll show up.
Tackle ONE Capital .... that's an entirely different story ;)
Expensive vessel beeing exposed ALLWAYS generate content for GROUPS.

4. as for our caps? our capitals are all post-capital-rebalance-prepared, we don't need to change anything on them *shrugs*

All I want is a less deserted w-space and giving small groups with a brain a tool for using capitals as tactical weapon (yes it DOES work Blink)

sorry we'll never ugprade to a higher-class, but that's a different story none of the changes are nessescary for our survival or gameplay, it's a bonus and is a change which effect also groups like adhc,tlc, wataha,......


1) The way you're choosing to apply the capital ship (to jump into a high-class WH for the intent of generating content) is not a huge impact. Understand this: if you jump a cap into a group that has no caps, chances are they will just leave. Jump through the hole, warp off: whatever it takes to disengage. If they have enough caps to engage your caps successfully, they will engage and you will be the ones jumping out or warping off. There is no content here. If warping and jumping is content to you, any nullsec alliance has this in spades.

2) I'll go fly into your c2 cataclysmic variable, especially with people begging for cap maneuverability (I wonder if you own carriers in a hole bonused for remote repair modules).

3) This isn't any sort of proof of you knowing "everyhting" you need to rate WH content. Anyone, including highsec turd-burglars, would froth at the mouth for a chance to appear on a capital killmail. Capitals generate content for groups, this is an undisputed fact. Except that the content you are describing is not mutual: is it fun for you to lose caps to high-class wh blobs? If you drop a dread on HK, you lose it. If you drop a dread on a small high-class WH group, they just disengage. This isn't a feature that grants you content, it is a feature that denies you content.

4) I'm not interested in your caps. That's why I live in low-class wormholes, and it's the reason a lot of corps live in low-class wormholes. I have the SP, game experience, and ISK to live in high-class wormholes. If I wanted to fly caps, I'd be in a C5/C6.

W-space isn't deserted, it's populated by loads of people. The trick isn't to drop a cap on them, it's to extract content from them with the tools you've already been given. W-space is deserted for idiots, but for the rest there are numerous opportunities to fight outnumbered and outgunned without resorting to a single capital ship. A change like this is nothing more than feeding capital ship killmails to high-class WH residents, and if you think it's anything else then you have my condolences.

Regards,
Tim
Oruze Cruise CEO
342 GBP
Master Baiter


Basically you summed it up, tim
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#17 - 2015-11-18 05:36:31 UTC
Timm3h wrote:

1) The way you're choosing to apply the capital ship (to jump into a high-class WH for the intent of generating content) is not a huge impact. Understand this: if you jump a cap into a group that has no caps, chances are they will just leave. Jump through the hole, warp off: whatever it takes to disengage. If they have enough caps to engage your caps successfully, they will engage and you will be the ones jumping out or warping off. There is no content here. If warping and jumping is content to you, any nullsec alliance has this in spades.

2) I'll go fly into your c2 cataclysmic variable, especially with people begging for cap maneuverability (I wonder if you own carriers in a hole bonused for remote repair modules).

3) This isn't any sort of proof of you knowing "everyhting" you need to rate WH content. Anyone, including highsec turd-burglars, would froth at the mouth for a chance to appear on a capital killmail. Capitals generate content for groups, this is an undisputed fact. Except that the content you are describing is not mutual: is it fun for you to lose caps to high-class wh blobs? If you drop a dread on HK, you lose it. If you drop a dread on a small high-class WH group, they just disengage. This isn't a feature that grants you content, it is a feature that denies you content.

4) I'm not interested in your caps. That's why I live in low-class wormholes, and it's the reason a lot of corps live in low-class wormholes. I have the SP, game experience, and ISK to live in high-class wormholes. If I wanted to fly caps, I'd be in a C5/C6.

W-space isn't deserted, it's populated by loads of people. The trick isn't to drop a cap on them, it's to extract content from them with the tools you've already been given. W-space is deserted for idiots, but for the rest there are numerous opportunities to fight outnumbered and outgunned without resorting to a single capital ship. A change like this is nothing more than feeding capital ship killmails to high-class WH residents, and if you think it's anything else then you have my condolences.

Regards,
Tim
Oruze Cruise CEO
342 GBP
Master Baiter



1. the capitals are to counter caps as mainpurpsoe, people in c5 should be able to field caps, if they aint .... no comment ;)
It is the reason why low-class groups have to leave so often -> they can't drop caps too, again its to allow more tactics
what you can do is drop a cap on HK if you DO NOT DO THAT IN THEIR HOME !!! self-explaining.

2. poke me ingame, bring your fleet, we bring ours :)

3. poke me ingame if you want to check what i know and do not know aobut w-sapce this is entirely urnelated to this topic.

4. that's true but still you CAN use them but you aint forced to?! What's the matter of beeing capable of using them IF you want, the hostiles can't force you to escalate in low-class wormholes if above mechanics get implemented.

Maybe it was not clear enough -> if you don't want to field caps NOTHING changes for you, yes NOTHING.
If you want to use caps for mroe than homedefense or if you want to coutner hostile caps -> you get another tool to work with.

-> again what is your problem?
Jakamo Diamond
Outback Steakhouse of Pancakes
Deepwater Hooligans
#18 - 2015-11-18 06:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jakamo Diamond
Figured I'd put my two cents in for this as someone who doesnt live in a low class hole.

This is an incredibly interesting idea and I think it could open up a good bit of possibilities, both in respect to PVP and PVE. The ability for smaller low-class groups to run escalations in a C5 off of their hole would be a fantastic starting point for corps looking to move up in to higher class space, as well as corps who want deeper pockets than a c3 or c2 can provide. From a PVP perspective, this change would have two effects: ganks and actual PVP situations. I would love this change personally, as the amount of solo farming dreads we would find would definitely increase a decent amount, and who deosnt like killing solo farming dreads? In a PVP situation, there are many times where 1 dread can make the difference between victory and defeat especially when fighting outnumbered; we utilize them in almost all of our major PVP engagements and they always turn the tide (granted this is on a much larger scale). In regards to scaring off content with caps, you would be surprised how overconfident groups become when they have the number advantage; this would undoubtedly allow smaller groups to hit above their weight.

Now, besides the positives of more PVE and PVP opportunities, there are some repercussions that need to be taken into account. For instance, it would be a drastically smaller commitment to build caps in a C2 or C3 as you could simply extract them when moving. On top of that, masses for smaller wormholes would need to be considered, as a dreadnought would crash a c3->C5 hole in one pass just mass-wise, negating the timed effect of ever being able to come back. This could be an interesting variant of the idea, where caps can go out of low mass holes but not into them and just crash the hole when leaving. All things to think about, and not necessarily all negative. I'd like to see some more constructive feedback on this from different sources.

On that matter, trolling down a thread like this by getting your corpies to +1 every comment you make is just fucken rude. If you really are that bored and cant find content in C2 space then go back to RVB Timm3h. You seem to lack the tactical knowledge to make some of the comments youre making, and I think this could be a legitimate idea.

Regards,
Jakamo

Edit: looks like i was looking at some wrong mass stuff, and the mass issue isnt an issue. My bad, gues the m267s would be excluded :)
Timm3h
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#19 - 2015-11-18 06:28:34 UTC
RcTamiya wrote:
Timm3h wrote:

1) The way you're choosing to apply the capital ship (to jump into a high-class WH for the intent of generating content) is not a huge impact. Understand this: if you jump a cap into a group that has no caps, chances are they will just leave. Jump through the hole, warp off: whatever it takes to disengage. If they have enough caps to engage your caps successfully, they will engage and you will be the ones jumping out or warping off. There is no content here. If warping and jumping is content to you, any nullsec alliance has this in spades.

2) I'll go fly into your c2 cataclysmic variable, especially with people begging for cap maneuverability (I wonder if you own carriers in a hole bonused for remote repair modules).

3) This isn't any sort of proof of you knowing "everyhting" you need to rate WH content. Anyone, including highsec turd-burglars, would froth at the mouth for a chance to appear on a capital killmail. Capitals generate content for groups, this is an undisputed fact. Except that the content you are describing is not mutual: is it fun for you to lose caps to high-class wh blobs? If you drop a dread on HK, you lose it. If you drop a dread on a small high-class WH group, they just disengage. This isn't a feature that grants you content, it is a feature that denies you content.

4) I'm not interested in your caps. That's why I live in low-class wormholes, and it's the reason a lot of corps live in low-class wormholes. I have the SP, game experience, and ISK to live in high-class wormholes. If I wanted to fly caps, I'd be in a C5/C6.

W-space isn't deserted, it's populated by loads of people. The trick isn't to drop a cap on them, it's to extract content from them with the tools you've already been given. W-space is deserted for idiots, but for the rest there are numerous opportunities to fight outnumbered and outgunned without resorting to a single capital ship. A change like this is nothing more than feeding capital ship killmails to high-class WH residents, and if you think it's anything else then you have my condolences.

Regards,
Tim
Oruze Cruise CEO
342 GBP
Master Baiter



1. the capitals are to counter caps as mainpurpsoe, people in c5 should be able to field caps, if they aint .... no comment ;)
It is the reason why low-class groups have to leave so often -> they can't drop caps too, again its to allow more tactics
what you can do is drop a cap on HK if you DO NOT DO THAT IN THEIR HOME !!! self-explaining.

2. poke me ingame, bring your fleet, we bring ours :)

3. poke me ingame if you want to check what i know and do not know aobut w-sapce this is entirely urnelated to this topic.

4. that's true but still you CAN use them but you aint forced to?! What's the matter of beeing capable of using them IF you want, the hostiles can't force you to escalate in low-class wormholes if above mechanics get implemented.

Maybe it was not clear enough -> if you don't want to field caps NOTHING changes for you, yes NOTHING.
If you want to use caps for mroe than homedefense or if you want to coutner hostile caps -> you get another tool to work with.

-> again what is your problem?


What part of this are you not understanding? I get the fact that the capitals you want to push from low class to high class are for countering high class capitals. I get the fact that you want low to high connections to be magical one way streets for low-class citizens. I'm a low-class citizen, and I'm telling you that your idea is ignorant and it will not work out this way.

What you are not grasping is that even if a low class group doesn't want to field capitals, it still does change things for you. Just like your corp parrot said, what if you were to use a C5 as a battlefield where both sides field caps? Well, my corp doesn't feel like fielding caps, and your corp obviously does. Ding, another instance where neither corp gets content. I don't feel like engaging a fleet that has capital support, and you can't move your capital ship from the c5 battlefield between us to our home hole to try and force an engagement further. Zero content.

There is nothing here. This entire topic and ideas contained within hold no substance beyond the confirmation that you and yours stand alongside moronic and undeveloped ideas vehemently.

Again, I reiterate for your edification: go live in high-class wormholes if you want to play with caps, and leave low-class WHs alone.

Regards,
Tim
Ruse Cruiser
342 GBP
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#20 - 2015-11-18 06:32:55 UTC
Timm3h wrote:
RcTamiya wrote:
Timm3h wrote:

1) The way you're choosing to apply the capital ship (to jump into a high-class WH for the intent of generating content) is not a huge impact. Understand this: if you jump a cap into a group that has no caps, chances are they will just leave. Jump through the hole, warp off: whatever it takes to disengage. If they have enough caps to engage your caps successfully, they will engage and you will be the ones jumping out or warping off. There is no content here. If warping and jumping is content to you, any nullsec alliance has this in spades.

2) I'll go fly into your c2 cataclysmic variable, especially with people begging for cap maneuverability (I wonder if you own carriers in a hole bonused for remote repair modules).

3) This isn't any sort of proof of you knowing "everyhting" you need to rate WH content. Anyone, including highsec turd-burglars, would froth at the mouth for a chance to appear on a capital killmail. Capitals generate content for groups, this is an undisputed fact. Except that the content you are describing is not mutual: is it fun for you to lose caps to high-class wh blobs? If you drop a dread on HK, you lose it. If you drop a dread on a small high-class WH group, they just disengage. This isn't a feature that grants you content, it is a feature that denies you content.

4) I'm not interested in your caps. That's why I live in low-class wormholes, and it's the reason a lot of corps live in low-class wormholes. I have the SP, game experience, and ISK to live in high-class wormholes. If I wanted to fly caps, I'd be in a C5/C6.

W-space isn't deserted, it's populated by loads of people. The trick isn't to drop a cap on them, it's to extract content from them with the tools you've already been given. W-space is deserted for idiots, but for the rest there are numerous opportunities to fight outnumbered and outgunned without resorting to a single capital ship. A change like this is nothing more than feeding capital ship killmails to high-class WH residents, and if you think it's anything else then you have my condolences.

Regards,
Tim
Oruze Cruise CEO
342 GBP
Master Baiter



1. the capitals are to counter caps as mainpurpsoe, people in c5 should be able to field caps, if they aint .... no comment ;)
It is the reason why low-class groups have to leave so often -> they can't drop caps too, again its to allow more tactics
what you can do is drop a cap on HK if you DO NOT DO THAT IN THEIR HOME !!! self-explaining.

2. poke me ingame, bring your fleet, we bring ours :)

3. poke me ingame if you want to check what i know and do not know aobut w-sapce this is entirely urnelated to this topic.

4. that's true but still you CAN use them but you aint forced to?! What's the matter of beeing capable of using them IF you want, the hostiles can't force you to escalate in low-class wormholes if above mechanics get implemented.

Maybe it was not clear enough -> if you don't want to field caps NOTHING changes for you, yes NOTHING.
If you want to use caps for mroe than homedefense or if you want to coutner hostile caps -> you get another tool to work with.

-> again what is your problem?


What part of this are you not understanding? I get the fact that the capitals you want to push from low class to high class are for countering high class capitals. I get the fact that you want low to high connections to be magical one way streets for low-class citizens. I'm a low-class citizen, and I'm telling you that your idea is ignorant and it will not work out this way.

What you are not grasping is that even if a low class group doesn't want to field capitals, it still does change things for you. Just like your corp parrot said, what if you were to use a C5 as a battlefield where both sides field caps? Well, my corp doesn't feel like fielding caps, and your corp obviously does. Ding, another instance where neither corp gets content. I don't feel like engaging a fleet that has capital support, and you can't move your capital ship from the c5 battlefield between us to our home hole to try and force an engagement further. Zero content.

There is nothing here. This entire topic and ideas contained within hold no substance beyond the confirmation that you and yours stand alongside moronic and undeveloped ideas vehemently.

Again, I reiterate for your edification: go live in high-class wormholes if you want to play with caps, and leave low-class WHs alone.

Regards,
Tim
Ruse Cruiser
342 GBP



so nothing changes for you, but it offers a possibility IF you want to, but you still complain?!
Okay ... this didn't help my idea in any kind ;)
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