Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hello Everyone,
So here I am, finally writing about those things.

Okay, first things first: I am Caldari, and I am proud to be one! (In a RPG kind of way - but hey I chose my race with the typical "wow! thats what i want!"

So of course this is just my point of view (you can think different, if you choose to)

What i wanted to say is make some comparations. Yeah I know its the old "Missiles suck" Topic. But this time its different.

I am gonna give you my thoughts on the subject and a few facts "Why" Missiles should be fixed:

Thoughts:
1. Lasers hit instantly. Is fine, seems fine, has the EM-Heat-Drawback.
2. Hybrids hit instantly. Okay... so those futuristic kind of weaps are as fast as light? Seems not fine to me, but maybe there is a reason for it. Extreme low Ranges and Extreme low Volley Damage is the Issue here.
3. Projectile Weapons hit instantly. Whait... what? OK let me get this straight: how are they fired? Pressure? From an explosion?
- So... Im not the best at Physics but on the one hand there are Missiles, those have a explo velo and hit with reduced damage on fast targets. And here is an explosion-fired Weapon, that can reach the same speed as a light based weapon? (essentially the speed of light?) Something has to be wrong! Plus those explosion fired weapons have the highest Volley of all Weapons in the game

Lets look at the remaining Weapons; Drones and MIssiles

Drones travel with MWD Speed and stick to their targets, plus every race uses them. I think drones are fine that way, When they are at theyr targets they stay there unless theyr not fast enough etc.

Missiles have a base speed of 3750m/s for standard, heavy and cruise Missiles, a base speed of 2275 for rockets and heavy assault (whait ... short ranged missiles travel slower? Whatever) 1500m/s for torps? ok that "seem" to be high speed. But 3 Weapon systems have obvoiously the speed of ligh. No difference in damage delay. All three of them do instant damage.

If (thats a big IF if you ask me) we accept that

lets take a look at the Speeds of Missiles.

Wikipedia Says that A rocket needs a speed of around 10000 m/s to excape earth gravitation. How in the world can a missile in eve online have only a speed of 1500m/s or for a standard 3750 m/s and still be useful in any space warfare, where all kinds of gravitations are @ home.

We have to face it, CCP. You made serious Mistakes in giving 3 Weapon Systems the speed of light and field missiles, who are the slowest in the medium damage section. With a laughable volley for all those drawbacks

Last thing: Travel time:

Ok if we are to to Accept (big IF) that so far with missiles being the slowest travelers (except drones - which really are a different story) Why do they get THIS slow?

I mean seriously CCP: A travelling time of 20 seconds(base traveling time for cruise!)?

Think about PvP: How long are 20 seconds .. damnit how long are 5 seconds!? In 20 seconds you lose 4 BS with focusfire!

5 seconds traveltime for missiles would still make them bad in PvP, but 20 seconds?

Ok enough of my thoughts, now for suggestions!

> If you want to keep all the other weapons those ways they are now - No Missile should travel longer than 5 seconds.

Even that costs you at least one BS (and therefore one volley of a bs
because Missiles get useless if youre destroyed in midair)
So adjust the travel speeds, keep the overall ranges, the damage, calculate everything but change the Speed, so that a rocket has a flight time of 1 second, HAM 1,5, standards and HMs 2 seconds, Torps 2, cruise and cap torps 2,2 and capital cruise 2.5,
> If not cut the Rate of Fire and give Missiles the Volley they deserve for all those drawbacks they have. Making them at least as hurtful as arties.

Thats me for now

I'm serious with all that and not trolling

this is my mainchar!

Honestly

Jitoru

What kind of comment is that?

If you ain't writing anything constructive, why do you write anything at all?
You weren't even able to give your opinion.

Push comes to shove...

gameplay > realism

That's about all that needs to be said.

edit: I should also add that missiles are coded a bit differently from turret weapons. Unlike turret rounds, missiles are actual physical objects that can be countered mid-flight (via defenders or smartbombs). They also take up a larger chunk of server resources.

Thank you Really for your research, Mars Theran. Your statings helped me understand how it could be from a physical point of view a little more.



20 miles per second is not light speed. Ofc i dont expect everything to change right now.


I just wanted to state the extreme difference for turret based and missile weapons in eve online. and to be honest; in gameplay terms missiles suck more than ever; It was said that missiles should be used in pve terms, but in the highest pve terms (incursions) projectiles and lasers are the best ones.



Essentially this is a point FOR making them faster! The less time they are in space, the less CPU they need! Defenders are one of the jokes in eve online, only NPCs use them, bc no one is afraid of missiles in pvp, and the missiles you dont want to be hit by are torps, which need 2 defenders to be destroyed.

Honestly

Jitoru

Tracking issues are damage mitigation; missile suffer from explosion velocity and explosion radius as forms of damage mitigation.

OP:



Step by step:

1. Speed of Light, yes, "instantaneous" for the distances considered. You do need to charge up a capacitor (slow process) in order to discharge it into high frequency, high thermal/electromagnetic damage (Fast process, tends to overheat everything, similar to what it'd be like to lighting up a billion focused flashlighs for 0.001 second on a target) . You essentially deal heating damage.

2. Depends on how much Energy is spent by shot. Since the Capacitor is in GJ, E = 1/2 m * Velocity ^2. However, this doesn't take into account rotational Energy, so we asume projectile radial speed = 0. Depending on the amount of energy projected onto the projectile, assuming 100% Energic efficiency transfer, your velocity should be very high. For the distances involved, a travel time of 1 to 2 seconds for 250 km's may or may not be unrealistic. Remember that there is no friction in space, and 250 km/s is only around 0.001% of the speed of light (Speed of light is aproximatlty 300.000 km/s). Thusly, for a game, you hit instantly.

3. Same as above, only its assumed that the projectiles do carry an explosive load, thusly dealing more damage via Energy released = Energy contained + Translational + Rotational energy. Assuming a again 250km/s projectile, you hit instantly. Note that in Earth, Projectile based weapons always have rotational Energy to bypass friction and atmospheric effects, du to how Inertia works (Rotational energy is transferred into translational energy as the projectile's inertia attempts tokeep its relative momentums during travel, providing for a straighter trajectory).

4. Missiles... Well. As always posted above, they obey the exact same logics, only they tend to turn all their mass into energy at the end of the travel (They blow up before hitting the target for maximum scatter-damage due to small parts hitting different locations). Further, they are guided, meaning the on-boiard navigational computer needs to have time to correct the trajectory. For this kind of projectile, rotational energy is probably nill, or severaly reduced in order to allow for simpler on-board computer guidance.

This is why Hybrid weapons use Cap (Projectile will be magnetized by variational electromagnetic fields and propelled due to hos these fields interact). This is why Lasers use Cap. Projectiles don't use cap because the intial explosion enegy is given by a high-explosive charge that i meant to propell the projectile forward. Note that further rail-gun-like behaviour can be induced to further propell the projectile. Rotation energy allows for better armor penetration aswell.

Missiles are just a drone with a explosive charge strapped on to it. :D

Properly skilled and appropriately fitted with propulsion, missiles still hit and do damage while non missile instant hitters miss. There is alot more to the exact formula, obviously, but there isn't a time where a missile misses. Reduced damage, perhaps, but it doesn't miss.

This performance is magnified as the distance between two ships decreases. At close orbit the the missile doesnt have to consider many things the gunner has to consider. And it's not a small difference either.

Friend or Foe options as well.

I did leave Defender missiles out of the missiles never miss statement. It could be considered but i've never seen anyone bother.

I'm not arguing missiles couldn't use a speed boost if testing was done and it was found lacking for the investment. But you can't preface a argument that instant gun hits means instant missile hits are needed. There is quite alot in between instant and non instant hits for them to be compared to each other in such a way.

The problem with these missile threads is that they always suggest increasing speed of missiles but never give a decent reason why. Travel time of missiles doesn't really become an issue till you reach the 70+km mark and tbh short of making them insta damage (which they should never have) any other speed boost won't change that.

I also never said you asked for that I said that increasing the speed they move will have little effect on small gang pvp where flight time isnt an issue atm, and make no change to sniper gangs as they still wont apply there damage fast enough to make them viable over turrets....so what is actually going to change?

They dont need an increased volley and they certainly dont need to decrease their rof, could you list there disadvantages in relation to turrets other than flight time.

As I have stated before, just increasing the speed of missiles wont change the make up of sniper gangs because missiles will still apply there dps slower than turret snipers even if there dps is theoretically faster.
There are some flaws with missile ships but most of them are on the ship themselves and not the weapon type they are using (Caracal has ****** fitting for example).

There are flaws with only two missile types really and just increasing flight speed marginally will not change the problems they have, as its more there explosion velocity/sig are too large. This isn't a generic missile problem just these two.