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Too much EWAR in the game?
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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#21 - 2015-11-17 15:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Hilti Enaka wrote:


Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.



Which is the fault of the guy with the 3 bil ship that didn't properly prepare for the eventuality of 5 mil tackle ships. Smart Bombs, ECCM, ECM drones, Energy Neutralizers, Target lock breakers on Battleships and MJDs on battleships and BCs, MWD cloak trick in low sec (or high sec if you are war decced).

My Ratting Machariel got tied down by a Ceptor that lit a cyno a few weeks ago while I was running Sanctums. He ate a large neut and an ecm burst from my ratting mach and then met my ecm drones and autocannons. He managed to drop 4 BLOPs before he died, but I was in a fleet, i overheated my tank, my buddies (in their ratting/Rescue Domis and Ravens) landed and chased them off. Wish one of us had a point, we would have killed a blops lol.



TL;DR there isn't too much EWAR in the game, there is too much excuse making by people who can't be arsed to prepare themselves to survive the "always on" pvp nature of this game.

On a side note, i really hate it when people "ask a question" when it's really an opinion. The OP isn't asking if there is too much EWAR in the game, he's telling us there is.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#22 - 2015-11-17 15:25:03 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Ewar is perfectly fine minus the ugly duckling ECM.
(snip)
It would also require multiple ECM's on a target in order to achieve the same effect ECM has today - that is not being able to lock anything at all - a fair tradeoff for removing the chance based system and making it into a constant effect if you ask me.
(snip)


I would rather have a boost to remote ECCM as a hard counter to ECM. Since there are several dedicated ECM ships, why not have dedicated ECCM ships too ?

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Doc J
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#23 - 2015-11-17 15:34:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:


Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.



Which is the fault of the guy with the 3 bil ship that didn't properly prepare for the eventuality of 5 mil tackle ships. Smart Bombs, ECCM, ECM drones, Energy Neutralizers, Target lock breakers on Battleships and MJDs on battleships and BCs, MWD cloak trick in low sec (or high sec if you are war decced).

My Ratting Machariel got tied down by a Ceptor that lit a cyno a few weeks ago while I was running Sanctums. He ate a large neut and an ecm burst from my ratting mach and then met my ecm drones and autocannons. He managed to drop 4 BLOPs before he died, but I was in a fleet, i overheated my tank, my buddies (in their ratting/Rescue Domis and Ravens) landed and chased them off. Wish one of us had a point, we would have killed a blops lol.



TL;DR there isn't too much EWAR in the game, there is too much excuse making by people who can't be arsed to prepare themselves to survive the "always on" pvp nature of this game.

On a side note, i really hate it when people "ask a question" when it's really an opinion. The OP isn't asking if there is too much EWAR in the game, he's telling us there is.


Strong coming from a blob alliance.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#24 - 2015-11-17 15:36:28 UTC
Doc J wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:


Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.



Which is the fault of the guy with the 3 bil ship that didn't properly prepare for the eventuality of 5 mil tackle ships. Smart Bombs, ECCM, ECM drones, Energy Neutralizers, Target lock breakers on Battleships and MJDs on battleships and BCs, MWD cloak trick in low sec (or high sec if you are war decced).

My Ratting Machariel got tied down by a Ceptor that lit a cyno a few weeks ago while I was running Sanctums. He ate a large neut and an ecm burst from my ratting mach and then met my ecm drones and autocannons. He managed to drop 4 BLOPs before he died, but I was in a fleet, i overheated my tank, my buddies (in their ratting/Rescue Domis and Ravens) landed and chased them off. Wish one of us had a point, we would have killed a blops lol.



TL;DR there isn't too much EWAR in the game, there is too much excuse making by people who can't be arsed to prepare themselves to survive the "always on" pvp nature of this game.

On a side note, i really hate it when people "ask a question" when it's really an opinion. The OP isn't asking if there is too much EWAR in the game, he's telling us there is.


Strong coming from a blob alliance.


I am not an alliance.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#25 - 2015-11-17 16:06:11 UTC
Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#26 - 2015-11-17 16:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Gregor Parud wrote:
Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there?


What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\

My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance.
Valacus
Streets of Fire
#27 - 2015-11-17 16:40:55 UTC
Jams may need more balancing, but tackle EWAR is a necessity. It's not like there isn't enough kiting in EVE Online as it is. Remove or nerf webs and scrams and it will be kiting online all day, every day. Now instead of getting blobbed, you just get run around the field by Orthrus's and Cynabals who always warp away whenever they get anywhere near danger and have nothing to fear from slower ships, even those supported by tacklers. That does not sound like an improvement. "Blobbing" is a part of every MMO. Numbers provide safety. You can't change that and you shouldn't try to. Massive fleet fights are a staple of the game.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#28 - 2015-11-17 16:44:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there?


What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\

My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance.


With the ongoing discussion not much at all. But this whole "yeah well, I don't at all affiliate myself with the people I choose to be with" is just hilarious nonsense. Otherwise I could be part of the K K K but when confronted with it go "yes well, I don't actually agree with what they're doing, you see". It's just as silly.
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#29 - 2015-11-17 17:03:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there?


What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\

My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance.


Jenn as i user of EWAR I
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#30 - 2015-11-17 17:03:34 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there?


What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\

My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance.


With the ongoing discussion not much at all. But this whole "yeah well, I don't at all affiliate myself with the people I choose to be with" is just hilarious nonsense. Otherwise I could be part of the K K K but when confronted with it go "yes well, I don't actually agree with what they're doing, you see". It's just as silly.


I never said anyhting about agreeing or not agreeing, I said i am not my alliance. If people in my alliance are doing something in violation of the EULA, then i disagree. If what they are doing is legal within the rules of the game, then I don't care. The irrational prejudice against "blobbers" usualyl comes from overly egotistical solo/small gang players who think they are special, and I'm saying that you can't judge me based on your own irrational prejudices.

If you have a problem with my opinion, address my opinion. Hiding behind that "look at what imaginary space group you are in" is beyond stupid.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#31 - 2015-11-17 17:05:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there?


What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\

My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance.


With the ongoing discussion not much at all. But this whole "yeah well, I don't at all affiliate myself with the people I choose to be with" is just hilarious nonsense. Otherwise I could be part of the K K K but when confronted with it go "yes well, I don't actually agree with what they're doing, you see". It's just as silly.


I never said anyhting about agreeing or not agreeing, I said i am not my alliance. If people in my alliance are doing something in violation of the EULA, then i disagree. If what they are doing is legal within the rules of the game, then I don't care. The irrational prejudice against "blobbers" usualyl comes from overly egotistical solo/small gang players who think they are special, and I'm saying that you can't judge me based on your own irrational prejudices.

If you have a problem with my opinion, address my opinion. Hiding behind that "look at what imaginary space group you are in" is beyond stupid.


So then, why do you choose to be in said group if you don't largely agree with their ideas/methods/actions?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#32 - 2015-11-17 17:08:58 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:

So then, why do you choose to be in said group if you don't largely agree with their ideas/methods/actions?


Who said I didn't agree?
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#33 - 2015-11-17 17:16:10 UTC
Dagnar wrote:
Jamming has been one of the least fun things in this game for a long time. Sure it's great to jam someone with all the power it makes you feel that the person cannot fight for at least 20 seconds, and probably longer with successive jams. However, it is absolutely crap for the jammed person. You don't even get a chance to do some damage or even fight back.


I dont understand this attitude at all. Being helpless because of jamming is no different then being helpless because you cant track that small frig that is circling your ship at a close orbit or being kitted while being damped, etc. . . Eve is all about asymmetrical combat - rock/paper/scissor - and hard counters. ECM is no different.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#34 - 2015-11-17 17:20:29 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

So then, why do you choose to be in said group if you don't largely agree with their ideas/methods/actions?


Who said I didn't agree?


You did, by implying that you don't necessarily condone or agree to what your alliance does. That's my point, I'm not for or against you or TEST for that matter (other than not agreeing to what/how they do stuff and thus aren't part of them). I'm simply pointing out the very obvious flaw in your initial "yeah well I'm not TEST" reply :)
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-11-17 17:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
ll Kuray ll wrote:
Too much EWAR specifically Jams.

Too easy for a 500k ship to sit jamming a 500m boat, to make it worse 500k x 25 jams just makes it pointless.

Ewar should be stacked the same way rigs have.

EWAR should be small, medium, large. Neuts and Nos are but none of the other EWAR is.

I like the idea of making EWAR modules restricted to the specific ship class. Small EWAR modules can not be used on larger ship sizes, of course there are the specific role bonused ships that would be exempt from this. It just means more thought goes into fleet setups instead of making every man and his dog wear a web, disruptor, jam, nos etc.


Set drones to defensve. Watch the griffon die in a fire or warp out. Why does your 500m ship not have drones? Also who flies 500m ships? That's like a Bhaalgorn or something, and my bhaal has over 100 sensor strength...

Edit: This post angers me. more incoming. U mad bro? Oh yeah i'm mad.

Ok so a Griffon kitted out with Jams (1 of each racial) and 2 Signal Amps II, all level 5
Radar Jam Strength: 18.84 (total)

Phantasm Sensor Strength: 24 (total)
This is assuming all skills at 5. RADAR compensation is like a x2 skill, if it bothers you so much train it. Even at compensation 4 the phantasm is not jammed 100% of the time.

As you can see though, with NO defensive modules. So beyond the fact the griffon can't fight your drones if its life depended on it, as it has zero tank and only 2 unbonused guns + 1 drone to fight back, it still won't 100% jam you.

I assumed the griffon had a propulsion module. If it doesn't have your 500k frigate go and shoot it. Pro Tip: Fly the same racial sensor strength to negate 3/4s the griffons ecm power.

Edit 2: A phantasm still isn't a 500m Ship even with some bling on there.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#36 - 2015-11-17 17:27:01 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

So then, why do you choose to be in said group if you don't largely agree with their ideas/methods/actions?


Who said I didn't agree?


You did, by implying that you don't necessarily condone or agree to what your alliance does. That's my point, I'm not for or against you or TEST for that matter (other than not agreeing to what/how they do stuff and thus aren't part of them). I'm simply pointing out the very obvious flaw in your initial "yeah well I'm not TEST" reply :)


I get it, you think I'm you or something.

I am a member of a corp that has my friends in it. That corp is a member of an Alliance. To my knowledge that Alliance isn't doing anything illegal (ie against the EULA) which is why i stay in my corp with my friends. If that Alliance was doing something wrong, I'd ask my friends to take the corp out of it, if they didn't, i'd leave and go play with some other friends somewhere.

You seem to be applying to me whatever criteria you use for doing something. I am not you, nor am I an Alliance. Tell me what TEST is doing that is so bad that I must be held responsible for it (despite being a member of one it's it's corps for a few months) in some kind of collective fashion?
Calanthas
Ninja Pixels
#37 - 2015-11-17 17:40:48 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Netan MalDoran wrote:
Might I suggest an E-Uni course in D-Scanning?


He'd be better off doing the E-Uni course in 'How to Blob".

Then he'd be the 15 and not the 1.


Or he may need to start with watching local.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#38 - 2015-11-17 17:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
It's not about being against the EULA or bad (but was a good try to change the subject a bit :P), it's about distancing yourself, in words anyway, from what the group you choose to be with is all about.

People who have a spine and aren't lying to themselves (or others) will refuse to be with a group if they don't largely agree to how that group operates. That's why I left INIT back when STK was still a part of it, because it was full of annoying egocentric clowns who thought they were really good but in reality just sucked and lacked any sort of teamwork. I didn't have the power to change that nor the will to endure it so I left. It's really as simple as that. Just mentioned as an example btw, nothing more.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#39 - 2015-11-17 17:58:15 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
It's not about being against the EULA or bad (but was a good try to change the subject a bit :P), it's about distancing yourself, in words anyway, from what the group you choose to be with is all about.


I didn't distance myself from anything. I made a statement of fact ("I am not an Alliance") against a nonsense allegation (something to do with blobs that has nothing to do with EWAR).

So, what are you on about, or are you just trolling right now, because you aren't making any sense. What is TEST doing wrong that I should distance myself from it?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#40 - 2015-11-17 18:03:17 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:


People who have a spine and aren't lying to themselves (or others) will refuse to be with a group if they don't largely agree to how that group operates. That's why I left INIT back when STK was still a part of it, because it was full of annoying egocentric clowns who thought they were really good but in reality just sucked and lacked any sort of teamwork. I didn't have the power to change that nor the will to endure it so I left. It's really as simple as that. Just mentioned as an example btw, nothing more.


Like I said. I am not you. Stop applying your personal standards to other people.

I don't make judgements about whatever alliance I am in like you do. I'm sure my alliance is full of clowns too (i once made the mistake of entering "the Bacon Bar" lol), as long as they aren't doing anything illegal that I can see, they are free to act as they will. I left STK and INIT Mercs not because I disliked anything about INIT, but to go play with some former STK friends who were still active, such as the ones who are with me in TEST right now, that's all.

Can't say it enough, I'm not you.