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[December] Command Destroyers

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#81 - 2015-11-17 15:06:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Lord Jasta wrote:
Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer?


We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(

Hahaha, oh man. I get the intention here, but you picked a pretty bad example to use. :haw:

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Alyssia Benar
Disturbing Silence
Disturbing Silence.
#82 - 2015-11-17 15:07:38 UTC
Another Question:
Can you activate it from within a Force Field to jump ships out?
Sanders Schmittlaub
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2015-11-17 15:08:33 UTC
Big fan of these, will definitely be getting, using, and abusing several of them.

One complaint.

The Magus really needs an expanded drone bay. Not having enough drones to replace one lost wave is going to be a pain in the butt.

My reasoning is simple enough - the Vexor has 75mbits of bandwidth and 125mbits of capacity, while the Ishtar, which is exactly the same hull, gets 125mbits of bandwith and 375m3 of capacity. The Myrmidon has 200m3/100mbits while the Eos has 250m3/125mbits.

I don't care about the bandwidth, but if the T2 variants of two different Gallente ships can expand both their bandwith and capacity with no modifications to the ship models, I think the same approach can be given to the Magus and expand its drone bay a little bit (at least 70m3 would be my vote).
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#84 - 2015-11-17 15:08:34 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Lord Jasta wrote:
Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer?


We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(


How can you discriminate against lowsec and 0.0 incursion fleets?:p

In a more serious note ... you could make the spool up already give you criminal status. which gives the fleet some chance to react. but tbh ... the crap people would do with them to miners, haulers and so on is probably not worth the trouble. bumping haulers with machariels is bad enough. we don't have to make it easier.
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#85 - 2015-11-17 15:08:48 UTC
Alyssia Benar wrote:
Another Question:
Can you activate it from within a Force Field to jump ships out?



Oh god, dragging out 5 bot machs using a AWOXer, okay i like that idea

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Maksmad
BRUTAL GENESIS
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#86 - 2015-11-17 15:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Maksmad
WHat rank will be the new command destroyers skill?

Also will you rename Command Ships skill to Command Cruisers?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2015-11-17 15:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
CCP Rise wrote:
Lord Jasta wrote:
Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer?


We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(



It's not over the top. It's hilarious and moreover, some needed risk to that community.


If we expect fleets to offensively scram these down, or each other, why then is it unreasonable for us to expect the same of incusioners?
Zaed Trevize
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2015-11-17 15:10:24 UTC
1) Go as close as you can to the logis

2) Activate magic module

3) ???

4)Profit
Matt Faithbringer
YOLO so no taxes please
#89 - 2015-11-17 15:13:36 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Lord Jasta wrote:
Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer?


We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(


Why? Why cannot the incursion fleet scram each other? How exactly would you be able to destroy them then?
Lumpymayo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#90 - 2015-11-17 15:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lumpymayo
I feel like they need a CPU reduction bonus for command processors. Fitting 2 links will make these things so fragile, and fitting 2 links with some tank, DC and MWD doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Rosal Milag
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2015-11-17 15:15:11 UTC
afkalt wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Lord Jasta wrote:
Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer?


We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(



It's not over the top. It's hilarious and moreover, some needed risk to that community.


When there is no counterplay, its over the top. Specifically referring to the ability of these destroyers to warp into an incursion fight, activate without anyone stopping them and killing the fleet as the logi is now 100km away and useless.

In low and null, as soon as the destroyer lands, its able to be killed. In high sec, you get concorded. Even a criminal timer when it activates isn't enough, both for the fleet to kill it or for it to activate before concord kills it in certain systems.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2015-11-17 15:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Rosal Milag wrote:
afkalt wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Lord Jasta wrote:
Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer?


We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(



It's not over the top. It's hilarious and moreover, some needed risk to that community.


When there is no counterplay, its over the top. Specifically referring to the ability of these destroyers to warp into an incursion fight, activate without anyone stopping them and killing the fleet as the logi is now 100km away and useless.

In low and null, as soon as the destroyer lands, its able to be killed. In high sec, you get concorded. Even a criminal timer when it activates isn't enough, both for the fleet to kill it or for it to activate before concord kills it in certain systems.



There is instant counterplay.

You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.


Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.


ed: And it should only go suspect, imo.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#93 - 2015-11-17 15:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Haven't seen it asked, so - what's the expected deal with Command Destroyers, Micro Jump Field Generators, and (official) tournaments?

I'd personally make the assumption that the destroyers themselves will be allowed but that the MJFG module would not be; is this accurate, or would we have one of the other two options - that the Command Destroyer is banned in its entirety, or that the MJFG module is legal to fit on them (which could result in some comedy, but not particularly good TV)?

Edit: Noticed that the Stork and Bifrost get 14 slots, while the Magus and Pontifex only get 13 slots. How about a bit of love for the races that don't literally poop nanofibers and microwarpdrives? Pontifex really could use a 4th midslot.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Alyssia Benar
Disturbing Silence
Disturbing Silence.
#94 - 2015-11-17 15:19:49 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
Alyssia Benar wrote:
Another Question:
Can you activate it from within a Force Field to jump ships out?



Oh god, dragging out 5 bot machs using a AWOXer, okay i like that idea

And you wouldn't even have to burn that Char because there is no need to get on the killmail. ;)
Cephei Kells
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#95 - 2015-11-17 15:20:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Lord Jasta wrote:
Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer?


We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(


Sure would be a shame if a fleet comp like one from an incursion would have to stick half its dudes into anti-mjd ships to counter this exciting new gameplay.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#96 - 2015-11-17 15:21:21 UTC
afkalt wrote:
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.


Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.


ed: And it should only go suspect, imo.


only works if they go suspect already during spool up. and then you have a *5* second window to lock the thing and scram it.that means your webbing loki or so needs to be with the bulk of the fleet. and if e.g. the lokis are a bit behind the main bulk fleet (let's say 20km) and the loki cant get into range to stop the dessy fast enough ... it jumps away the logis and leaving the normal ships to die. so turtle up is the only real option then to make warp scrambling as counter work.
Meltmind2
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2015-11-17 15:22:22 UTC
Question on the MJFG: will spooling up the module increase the sigradius of the parent ship by 50% like the current MJDs?
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#98 - 2015-11-17 15:22:37 UTC
Alyssia Benar wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:
Alyssia Benar wrote:
Another Question:
Can you activate it from within a Force Field to jump ships out?



Oh god, dragging out 5 bot machs using a AWOXer, okay i like that idea

And you wouldn't even have to burn that Char because there is no need to get on the killmail. ;)


I take it back

Doooooooooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Make them Alive Mr Rise!

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#99 - 2015-11-17 15:22:55 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Haven't seen it asked, so - what's the expected deal with Command Destroyers, Micro Jump Field Generators, and (official) tournaments?

I'd personally make the assumption that the destroyers themselves will be allowed but that the MJFG module would not be; is this accurate, or would we have one of the other two options - that the Command Destroyer is banned in its entirety, or that the MJFG module is legal to fit on them (which could result in some comedy, but not particularly good TV)?


TBH ... it could even be a viable module during the tournament... if the MJD usage in the amarr championship is any indication.
and it would give frigs and dessies even more of an important task.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2015-11-17 15:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Airi Cho wrote:
afkalt wrote:
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.


Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.


ed: And it should only go suspect, imo.


only works if they go suspect already during spool up. and then you have a *5* second window to lock the thing and scram it.that means your webbing loki or so needs to be with the bulk of the fleet. and if e.g. the lokis are a bit behind the main bulk fleet (let's say 20km) and the loki cant get into range to stop the dessy fast enough ... it jumps away the logis and leaving the normal ships to die. so turtle up is the only real option then to make warp scrambling as counter work.



Which they should (go flashy at activation).

It's sure be swell if there was a new module script coming that allowed 35+ km scrams. Man that would make these more than manageable.

But wait, your isk/hour, right?



Your entire argument falters because you're under the EXACT same situation and problem as any fleet, ANYWHERE provided they go flashy at spool up, which they would because actions are tied to activations, not effects.


If it is reasonable to expect fleets in low, null and WH space to lock (and tackle) these on land, the same level of reasonableness MUST therefore apply to incursions.



But wait, your isk/hour, right?