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[December] Command Destroyers

First post First post
Author
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2015-11-17 14:30:24 UTC
Cephei Kells wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


More than any module/mechanic I've worked on, this is an attempt to expand fleet sizes and tactics, not limit them. I believe (as long as the numbers end up somewhat balanced) this is one of the most promising 'sandbox' module/ship additions we've done recently and the fact that we have no idea what players will do with it feels really great and exciting.


The problem that I'm seeing is that anchoring in a fleet doctrine which isn't specifically a fast moving/kiting doctrine is pretty much dead now as this new AOE MJD has the ability to remove your ships from logistical rep range and with the addition of RR falloff you have a much tighter bubble to where you can turtle with a doctrine meaning its easier than ever for a single person to MJD all your dudes off and force them to warp off and back to the fight. Rewarping to the fight is a moot point if its your logistics who get blinked as everything will be dead by the time they return.

The point I'm getting at is there needs to be a counter to this which is not just killing the ship attempting to do this as the simple counter to that is to fling 5-6 of these at a hostile fleet and watch them scatter while not being able to do anything about it.

Please do not release this without there being a competent counter because this will honestly kill all fleet combat which isn't cerbs and ishtars.



People will need to start fitting scrams.

The new HIC scripts make even more sense considering this (I'm surprised no-one mentioned it in that thread tbh)
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2015-11-17 14:30:58 UTC
Quote:
Please do not release this without there being a competent counter because this will honestly kill all fleet combat which isn't cerbs and ishtars.


If this kind of tactic becomes really common it is always an option to either defend your logi/fleet with long range scrams to use on the incoming Command Dessies or, if you don't have another option, simply scram your own fleet. Smile

@ccp_rise

Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-11-17 14:31:27 UTC
still no t2 coercer and no t2 cormorant. but yet minmatar and gallente get to enjoy mixed weapon t2 destroyers. yay.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Sakey Isu
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#44 - 2015-11-17 14:32:33 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
Are there any prerequisites for the command destroyer skill??)



this* is the only thing I care about with these new ships
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#45 - 2015-11-17 14:32:54 UTC
Do objects like missiles and bombs get teleported as well?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2015-11-17 14:33:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Please do not release this without there being a competent counter because this will honestly kill all fleet combat which isn't cerbs and ishtars.


If this kind of tactic becomes really common it is always an option to either defend your logi/fleet with long range scrams to use on the incoming Command Dessies or, if you don't have another option, simply scram your own fleet. Smile



To be fair, there is absolutely no IF, about it. These will be warped in, via probes, and immediate spool up.

You'd be absolutely insane not to.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#47 - 2015-11-17 14:34:23 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
still no t2 coercer and no t2 cormorant. but yet minmatar and gallente get to enjoy mixed weapon t2 destroyers. yay.


because the eris is such a great ship right
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#48 - 2015-11-17 14:35:27 UTC
Cephei Kells wrote:
ishtars


I guess mjd their drones a few times
5pitf1re
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2015-11-17 14:35:30 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Do objects like missiles and bombs get teleported as well?


That was mentioned in the OP.
Alyssia Benar
Disturbing Silence
Disturbing Silence.
#50 - 2015-11-17 14:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssia Benar
Still no answer to whether we can jump Caps or not. :(
Zockhandra
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-11-17 14:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
CCP RiseCommand Destroyers!

Second, how exactly does the Micro Jump Field Generator work? This module is exactly like a Micro Jump Drive except that when it fires, it pulls any ships nearby along with it for the jump. There's a lot of specifics to consider here but the big restrictions you need to know are that you cannot use this module in high sec, you can not pull invulnerable targets (ships that have just undocked or just jumped through a gate and are still cloaked), you can not move capitals, and you can not jump into starbase shields. You CAN however do a lot of really crazy thing such as pull bombs that are midair, pull dictor bubbles or chain multiple jumps in a row using several Command Destroyers. As for numbers, we have a base spool up time of 9 seconds, a reactivation delay of 160 seconds, a pull radius of 6km from the ship and a jump distance of 100km. The module requires 5 PG and 31 CPU to fit and requires the same skill as normal MJDs to use.




Whilst i really like this idea, (especially that you make links available on them) here are my thoughts.

If this modules works like other MJD (can only be shut down via scram), what is stopping players from diving into a bubble to save titans?

What happens when you use this device near starbase structures, marauders, Deployed bubbles and drones?


Can it be used to reposition Cyno jammers?

Big one: How in hells name are Bomber fleets going to feel when the vast majority of the fleet that has been dragged into a bubble and is about to be dropped, just vanishes? lets use an example:

You setup a MJD beacon using the dessie 100km off a trapped Rattlesnake, you activate the MJD, but halfway through cycle you also activate the MJFG, so the moment you land on the Rattlesnake, it is dragged to safety 100km away. Extending further into this question. What if the ship you are SAVING has a cyno fitted? are we allowing cynos to be bumped around to safety now?
Now i admit, the idea of saving ships by warping in on them and then activating sound fun, and good for gameplay. but i can see an aweful lots of very exploitave behaviour.

Another example, if this ship can drag mining barges too, whats stopping mining bots in null from also having these dessies orbiting them? so not only they warp out when a neut enters system, but also jump 100km away from the warpin, making it even harder to catch them.

If this is going ahead, it sounds like ALOT of restrctions need to be made, or atleast another form of shutting these little monsters down.


Also, Mr Rise that is one fantastic beard you had during the championships

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Minchurra
Perkone
#52 - 2015-11-17 14:37:24 UTC
Cephei Kells wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


More than any module/mechanic I've worked on, this is an attempt to expand fleet sizes and tactics, not limit them. I believe (as long as the numbers end up somewhat balanced) this is one of the most promising 'sandbox' module/ship additions we've done recently and the fact that we have no idea what players will do with it feels really great and exciting.


The problem that I'm seeing is that anchoring in a fleet doctrine which isn't specifically a fast moving/kiting doctrine is pretty much dead now as this new AOE MJD has the ability to remove your ships from logistical rep range and with the addition of RR falloff you have a much tighter bubble to where you can turtle with a doctrine meaning its easier than ever for a single person to MJD all your dudes off and force them to warp off and back to the fight. Rewarping to the fight is a moot point if its your logistics who get blinked as everything will be dead by the time they return.

The point I'm getting at is there needs to be a counter to this which is not just killing the ship attempting to do this as the simple counter to that is to fling 5-6 of these at a hostile fleet and watch them scatter while not being able to do anything about it.

Please do not release this without there being a competent counter because this will honestly kill all fleet combat which isn't cerbs and ishtars.


You can scramble them to turn off the MJD, it's not a great solution though.

The minimum activation time with max skills was quoted in this thread to be about 5 seconds, even with the sig bloom a lot of cruisers will struggle to lock these before they get teleported which doesn't feel particularly reasonable.
Meltmind2
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2015-11-17 14:37:40 UTC
Alyssia Benar wrote:
Still no answer to whether we can jump Caps or not. :(

IIRC CCP has already stated that the MJFG won't affect capitals.

Q: will the new HIC scram shut down these new MJFG aswell?
Yadaryon Vondawn
Vicanthya
#54 - 2015-11-17 14:37:55 UTC
Can you MJD the following?:

  • Active bastion Marauders
  • Active portal Black Ops
  • Regular missiles/rockets and defender missiles (in the last case, what happens?)
  • Probes
  • Cans
  • Asteroids
Cephei Kells
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#55 - 2015-11-17 14:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cephei Kells
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Please do not release this without there being a competent counter because this will honestly kill all fleet combat which isn't cerbs and ishtars.


If this kind of tactic becomes really common it is always an option to either defend your logi/fleet with long range scrams to use on the incoming Command Dessies or, if you don't have another option, simply scram your own fleet. Smile


Do you really think the only counter to this should be sticking 3 dudes in proteus with the express purpose of tackling MJD dessies so they dont **** up your world?
Because I guarantee you that you've killed BS fleet combat for all but the most dedicated which doesn't sound like you're helping the sandbox become more sandboxy by removing an entire class of ships from use. Who knows, Maybe BC fleets will die again too.
Mornak
Exotic Dancers Union
#56 - 2015-11-17 14:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mornak
nice :)


CCP Rise wrote:

.... Yes drones.
...


will your drones keep the targetlock when jumped and keep firing as long as you're within 250km of the target?
Ix Method
Doomheim
#57 - 2015-11-17 14:38:56 UTC
Alyssia Benar wrote:
Still no answer to whether we can jump Caps or not. :(

You could always read the OP Blink

Thankyou for these. Been so long but so worth the wait.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2015-11-17 14:39:27 UTC
Lair Osen wrote:

What happened to the kinetic lock? :P

You were taken on a ruse cruise.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-11-17 14:45:09 UTC
What about capitals in general, capitals in siege/triage, supers/titans, marauder in bastion - will mjfg affect them?
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#60 - 2015-11-17 14:46:53 UTC
Alyssia Benar wrote:
Still no answer to whether we can jump Caps or not. :(


You cannot jump caps. Sorry I missed that in the OP, it's added now.

@ccp_rise