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First of all didn't you forget an advantage for dreads namely a fleet hanger to put ships in?

Lets compare a moros with these new angle guns to lets say 3 bs ( example : cheap mega )
Still looks bad comparing to battleships. In this example the bs do 3600dps.
The bether range doesn't matter since bs are more mobile then dreads and logi will be able to keep those bs up untill they are on target(dread fight without logi is unlikely).
Using 3 ships is 3 times less likely to get affected by Ewar.
The EHP of a moros is bether indeed.
Refitting services are always nice but not that handy for subcaps in you fleet since mostly the capitals change fitting in a fight.
Most dreads are about 3 bil with fitting so is generaly more then 3 battleships(in this example bs kost 900 mil).
The 3 bs will have more utility slots.

And now for some wh stuff, wich you probaby have not though about.
A dread has over 1 bil of mass. the average bs 150mil.
So an FC in wh-space will need to choose between 1 dread with 1-2k dps at 1 bil of mass or 3 bs with 450mil of mass with 3k6dps when the wh only takes 3 bil of mass to collaps.
If you bring in the dread you need to keep an eye on the wh-mass if you want to get back. If you need to bring in more capitals then you will have to scan your way out.
If you bring bs you can get back easy or later decide to bring in anti-capital dread for support and still get back.
Wich means case no dread will be chosen to go and kill subcaps. Only for anti-cap or anti-structure will the dread be used in wh-space.
And without changes to pve content i don't see them even being used in that.

Even with these it would be bether to use bs : apo

But some things are not clear, will these subcapguns need support to hit subcaps? What kind of tracking are you aiming to give them?
Can the dreads refit of them selfs? And if so will the cargohold be large engough to fit both types of guns and their ammo?
Are there changes planned on the price range of dreads and carriers?

Just 1 comment on your "subcap" dread guns - Go read the blog again, then read Larrikins comments at the beginning of this thread. I think he made it pretty clear, Dreads are going to be the ship of choice, in very rare situations.

""Carriers will be more mobile?"" How do you get that? Carriers will need to sit as close to a FAX as possible or die very fast.

With FAX triage becoming the only viable source of reps - Capital ships will (more often than not) land on grid and not move again until the fight is over.

I think you're putting too much thought into the carrier/dread variation..

My concern is more on dread vs Titan and carrier vs super carrier.

Will Titans be more powerful than dreads at taking down other caps and structures, as well as sub cap fleets since they have new doomsday tools?

Will super carriers have as much drone capability as carriers, despite also having some upcoming special abilities as well?

I'm worried that supers and Titans may overshadow dreads and carriers.
Putting it to the point where the only reason to get a dread or a carrier is because you don't have the ISO and/or skills to properly pilot a super/Titan.

CCP needs to make sure they're done right.
I wont pretend to know the best way to go about the balancing, but I don't see it as easy either...

Personally, I'd rather they just do away with capitals all together and make these ships variations of BS died hulls.

2 new t1 BS class hulls.
Carriers and dreads. (Dreads possibly using the tier 3 BS hulls.)
2 new t2 class BS hulls.
Super carriers and Titans.

But, people do like seeing their massive ships and I don't see CCP dumping them down into the BS category....

How are fighter related BPOs going to work post-change?

I Think that the Rorqual is in dire more need of changes than leadership skills and boosting in general.

Booster pilots these days are like Blops jump bridge pilots. either either have one or you don't. Or its both.

• Is the 50km range quoted high angle blasters with void? If not, I can already reach out to that range very comfortably with current subcap weaponry.


• Resistance to the same ewar that I am currently immune to? While in a state whereby I cannot take any real action to counter the same Ewar. I cannot fly to reduce transversal, I cannot close the range, I cannot be remote sebo'd.


• Higher base hp is nice and all, but meaningless when compared to a battleship that can catch reps. Their tank is effectively infinite provided they can survive the alpha. That is one of the prime purposes of blap dreads now, to provide the alpha needed to break logi.


• Refitting in battle is dead without waiting for 60 seconds. This is only really useful in poses (where it will be much appreciated) and some other egde cases. In normal usage, you would not drop a dread to gain access to a fleet hanger, where a nestor can fill that role, with potentially infinite tank, at less then half the cost of a dread.


• Comparing a blap dread to a deadspace fit battleship is madness of the highest order. One is a disposable tool used to break reps and die when primed. The other is designed to hold grid, and catch reps when primed while filling a dps/tackle/ewar role. Whilst the dread might be cheaper, it is also going to die far far more often. Also, a 700 mil macharial can do 1/3rd of the dps, apply that out the 50km, 2 midslots for ewar, move 1.5km/s+ and has 160ehp. For return on investment, the proposed dreads will be awful.


• Woohoo, space aids. Also, with the prevalence of titan bridges this doesn't represent any real advantage over a battleship.

I agree, dreads shouldn't always be the best choice, but with what you have proposed, they will never be even a good choice.

1. Not enough dps to break the reps (3 additional battleships aren't going to make the difference in the majority of circumstances)

2. Lack of ewar immunity means that they become prime targets to shut down, and even with 50% resistance, unbonused ewar will have devastating consequences (even with stacking penalties) that the dread pilot can do nothing to counter.

3. Hitting siege now is effectively betting that you can dps down the enemy before they can chew through your buffer. If the proposed changes, as dreads will be losing lots of base dps, and the fitting slots to improve that, this is a race they will never win. It is always a losing bet, with the added insult that you might not even be able to kill anything, as the dps is so anemic that the target will simply be repped through it. The loss of refitting is also a major factor, as preivously dreads could drop their damage and application for more buffer. Now they have to completely stop all damage and then wait 60 seconds, by the end of which the dread will be dead regardless.

A dread will never be even a considerable option in the current format. Increasing the dps is a must, as is revisting the plans to remove combat refitting for ships locked in siege/triage. The ewar resistance has to be exceptionally high, or even 100%.

You bought it for the extreme low risk. Now it has a smidge of risk attached. Welcome to the world of risk vs reward.

Those skills are not required for the carrier skills, so anyone who has trained them has actually used remote reps deliberately or trained to be able to. This means there is no need in the slightest for any reimbursement. Since the skills will still exist and do exactly what they used to do.

Not really a solution at all - Having useful SP is far more beneficial than a bit of isk.

Nevyn - Large projectile turrets isn't required to fly a Mach but how useful would the ship be without them - That is the worst argument for not reimbursing kills ever.
Carriers, which right now have bonuses to remote reps will no longer have them - CCP should give players the option to have those skills reimbursed - Not all carrier pilots will want to switch to a disposable logistics ship.

By this line of reasoning, my Supercarrier and Moros pilot should have been reimbursed a bunch of skills when they lost the ability to field normal/any drones. I currently have a Titan/Supercarrier pilot with 13 million SP in drones -none of which can be used in his Avatar. It's part of the game.

CCP should give every pilot a straw this Christmas. The item description should simply say, "Suck it up."