Warfare & Tactics

Le sigh. Has no one drawn the connection (were the ihub idea to fall through) that these could potentially provide an enormous amount of LP for busting. +1 for IHub hats!

Why not tie system upgrades to the ability for an enemy faction to anchor citadels? Something like no anchoring at 5, only meds at 4, etc.

Always remember the neutral alt

+1 for ihub hats!

Underrated point right there!

Also whatever is decided to make those things work in FW will be a band-aid at best. Those things were clearly not designed with anything other than null-sec in mind, like things as Asset Safety, Vulnerability Windows, etc.. show.

If CCP wanted the intuitive approach here, those things would have been limited to null, but now they are a Jesus feature for the entire game instead, so they have to be shoehorn'd everywhere.

System under siege? Enemy militia set up a citadel and are basing out of it?

Blow. It. Up.

vov It's eve. We like to make people lose things..

Besides. I still think the proliferation of these things is a detriment to FW, in that it introduces a foreign structure that completely ***** on home field advantages. Why should we even have docking restrictions with these present? A tower always created a kind of sadistic convenience; pos are hard to use and quickly ship out of in comparison to a station, which this thing is superior to in every way. Not integrating them into the body of FW, as I've said, makes them arbitrary and something of a nuisance. They will completely ruin the importance geography plays in war. That is a bad thing that reduces content quality and diversity. Sacrificing strategy and tactful thinking for the sake of new stuff is not good. Why can't you see that?

I desperately entreat CCP to deeply consider allowing these Tu function as POS in FW. If you are urged to create a thread to discuss the difficulties of new players coming into FW, you must see also how this structure, where it's headed, completely topples the balance in favor high SP and established entities to such a degree that there will not be an opposing forces that can dock in even the CLOSEST militia lowsec system. Only pity and laziness will keep this from happening. (p.s.) I am of the opinion that not too many people keen on how good these are will say much, because in null they are a logistic director's wet dream. Stations? Forget it. It will be Citadel placement attack and response; Citadel against Citadel and links will drive the win where they can dock. Wormholes! ::drops the mic::

Vesk, you know that having assets in a hostile station can be gamed right. It'll be a minor inconvenience at most. Lot less trouble in fact than space taxi-ing sheet from a doomed POS would be.

Oreb, POS' are actually faster to reship from than stations. SMA use doesn't have the aggression timer that station docking does. No black screen of boredom when docking and undocking either.

There will be more advantages to Citadels than POS towers for sure though. Finding the right balance is nigh on impossible I think - and you know what, I don't think CCP view them as detrimental to FW or there would already be some wormholesque variation plan in place.

No offence Sugar but I think you're flogging a dead horse here. These will go ahead as is or with some inane system upgrade +/- ing that's just as useless as the crap we've already got for system upgrades.
FW changes since Inferno have been few and far between (cloaky radius bollocks and ship restriction changes anyone) and I don't see it being our turn on the wheel for a long time again.
If they won't / can't implement the small changes people have advocated for a long time such as the timer rollback, what chance of them putting some late changes into FW/Citadel/System boni? SFA chance I fear.

Folks are just going to have to adapt and deal with it.
It's not like these things are indestructible and I still think they bring more to the table than they take with respect to gameplay options.

So long as there's more pew pew I don't really give a rat's clacker to be quite honest.

If it turns out to be terrible then we can always vote with our feet aye?! :)

Yes, I'm a bitter vet. No you can't have my stuff.

That is true for a small and organized group, like COA. However, POS reshipping doesn't scale. It becomes a PITA when you have to deal with 50 different corps and alliances all needing the PW, all needing ships, repairing modules, checking ammo, assembling and fiting ships, etc, etc. It's fine for COA where you do coordinated assaults with people that are all on the same page. Try it with 50 newbro's who rename ships, remove ammo, unfit mods, burn out mods, etc, etc and then put them back into the ship maintenance arrays.

EDIT: I'm not saying citadels are bad either, but they will 100% completely change the face of FW fighting. Docking rights will no longer matter, nobody will care about sov except for mission agent systems. There will be no more plex fighting, unless there is a push to a certain tier level so people can farm missions. All the fights will be over Citadels.

Here is what is going to happen. Faction A is going to assault faction B's home system. Faction A will drop citadels. If faction A flips the system, faction B will drop a citadel and try and take the system back. At this point, both factions will be effectively living in the same system basing out of an effective station. At this point, the fight becomes not about FW mechanics, but about Citadel mechanics. The "winner" will be whatever faction can win the citadel fights. After the fact, the winner will most likely flip the system back, but the true fight will be over the citadel.

I think this change will be horrible for COA. Now Gallente can just completely ignore you in plexes when you come to a home system. The strategy will shift to "fight off COA as much as possible during their prime and deplex when they are sleeping" which means fun fights for you, to "move to a citadel and deny them content and bore them too death. If they take the system, meh, just wait until they leave and then flip it back".