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[December] Module Tiericide - Warp Disruption Field Generators

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big miker
Frogleap Factories
#281 - 2015-11-10 13:26:57 UTC
afkalt wrote:
big miker wrote:
Give the Garmur / Orthrus the navy maulus treatment.
10% bonus to warp disruptor range, and NOT scrambler range.


You have that backwards:

Quote:
10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)


Intented, since I find the defensive scram to make that ship too good.

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Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#282 - 2015-11-10 14:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
I think im going to train to fly a devoter or onyx. Its got drones (or rlml), 30km+ scram, good tank, decent projection and will only take me 10 days to train into.

Since CCP doesnt seem overly concerned with destroying the large ship meta, guess ill adapt and join the bandwagon of overpowered super scrammers.

Edit: Onyx has potential to be a fun solo ship. 1k dps tank, 400+ dps that has no tracking, good cap, good enough speed to hold ships when using the super scram.

Onyx fit

T2 WDFG
x5 RLML

MWD
T2 cap booster
Pith B type large shield booster
invuln
shield boost amp
fed navy web

x3 BCU
dcu

EM rig
cap safegaurd rig

From my outdated app thats showing about an 1100dps tank with bluepill. Come at me BS/BC.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#283 - 2015-11-10 18:33:47 UTC
big miker wrote:
afkalt wrote:
big miker wrote:
Give the Garmur / Orthrus the navy maulus treatment.
10% bonus to warp disruptor range, and NOT scrambler range.


You have that backwards:

Quote:
10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)


Intented, since I find the defensive scram to make that ship too good.


Ahh I thought you meant the maulus had no scram bonus
BABARR
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#284 - 2015-11-13 00:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: BABARR
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi M8s!

As part of our December release, we're doing a module tiericide pass on Warp Disruption Field Generators. Tell us what you think!

Goals
  • Provide meaningful options within the module set

Changes
  • Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs
  • Added Meta modules
  • Added Faction modules
  • Changed icon for Warp Disruption Field Generators

.


These ideas just got a name : welcome to the age of NANO-BROADSWORD. That all.


You create MJD to give a bit more survivability for big ass ship. And now you break all of that. Brilliant.
Now you give more survivability to gate camper, to low sec pirate, ect. (and i know what i'am speaking about, i'am both of that)
They had choice : come close for scramble, use a lachesis/arazu/keres, or take the risk to see target MJD away.
You just give them more range, more tank = more safety = less ship goes boom.
MrQuisno
Doomheim
#285 - 2015-11-13 23:56:30 UTC
One things they need to do is add a weapons timer regardless if they shoot back or not. If you get pointed by a HIC with the script on board you will get hit with a one min weapons timer. Which means during that one min you can not dock or jump tho a gate. This can not be repeated. Should be a blue cool down timer of 2 minutes. This will add more risk for people on undock and or trying to jump the gates.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#286 - 2015-11-14 00:35:58 UTC
MrQuisno wrote:
One things they need to do is add a weapons timer regardless if they shoot back or not. If you get pointed by a HIC with the script on board you will get hit with a one min weapons timer. Which means during that one min you can not dock or jump tho a gate. This can not be repeated. Should be a blue cool down timer of 2 minutes. This will add more risk for people on undock and or trying to jump the gates.
"There is literally nothing you can do to save yourself" is stupid and you should feel bad for suggesting it.
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#287 - 2015-11-15 13:53:32 UTC
Destoya wrote:
Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors?


Gravitron Physics is also used heavily in invention and manufacturing, its not like the skill suddenly will have no place in the game.

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Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#288 - 2015-11-15 16:02:43 UTC
I still think this is going to be OP as hell. Its not a long train to get into a HIC, and even then you still have a 30km+ scram with T1 WDFG. More than linked arazu's.

However, if you choose to push this through, I will abuse the hell out of it. I think a 500dps beam devoter will do the trick.

[Devoter, Beamz]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Internal Force Field Array I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x5

512dps using multi (which it can use up to 30km just fine), 1600 m/s cold, cap stable and about a 500 dps tank (OH) before links/implants. May not be the 200k super tank that was mentioned earlier, but it will be a fun solo boat to throw around and harass frigs/cruisers/bc's with. Not to mention providing good dps in a gate camp too.

I have a feeling the devoter will be getting quite a bit of use. As will the onyx.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#289 - 2015-11-17 18:43:08 UTC
Well, seeing as there has been no shift on this yet from CCP I guess i'll reserve this space for the "I told you so comment" for when this is on tranquillity and people are complaining about it on the forums and I can link back to this.

In the mean time, I might as well start using (abusing) HICs.
Anthar Thebess
#290 - 2015-11-18 08:15:46 UTC
Just an idea.
Can we make one of this faction points more viable for armor hic, and second one for shield hic?
Why they need to be the same?

If polarized guns can negate resists, can active hic point do the same but on reduced scale?

For example reducing shield or armor resists by 5% , and even maybe boost other by 1%.
More options is better!

This way :
- T1/ T2 for no ehp penalty.
- Faction 1 ( only for Armor HIC) - Shield resists lowered by 5% , Armor resists boosted by 1% (stackable)
- Faction 2 ( only for Shield HIC) - Armor resists lowered by 5% , Shield resists boosted by 1% (stackable)

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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#291 - 2015-11-19 08:43:01 UTC
In my opinion T2 should get the longest point range and Faction and Concord lose fitten requierements
but tell me any reason to train to T2 Graviton Physics 5...
q
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#292 - 2015-11-19 12:50:15 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
In my opinion T2 should get the longest point range and Faction and Concord lose fitten requierements
but tell me any reason to train to T2 Graviton Physics 5...
q


Any reason to train Graviton Physics V? How about not spending 150-300m ISK on your faction WDFG?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#293 - 2015-11-20 20:59:49 UTC
I realized something.

With the MJD dessies we can fling HICs with uber scrams 100km which will make snagging ships kiting around 70km much easier.

Things will be changing drastically. I like the idea of merging MJD and HIC. What i dont like is the insta lock HIC gate camps that will be popping up everywhere.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#294 - 2015-11-20 21:00:44 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
HandelsPharmi wrote:
In my opinion T2 should get the longest point range and Faction and Concord lose fitten requierements
but tell me any reason to train to T2 Graviton Physics 5...
q


Any reason to train Graviton Physics V? How about not spending 150-300m ISK on your faction WDFG?


I doubt many players will be too concerned about the price of them unless solo pilots. That extra bit of range means the difference between snagging a target and it getting away.
Sard Caid
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#295 - 2015-11-20 22:18:09 UTC
This has been beaten to death at this point, but mark my voice as another one towards scrambler effect at full focused point range being intensely negative on solo and small scale PvP. MJD cancellation / denial at range is fair, even good, but mirror the scrambler effect to current bonused scrambler ranges (15-18km).

Thank you for consulting and discussing with the player base prior to rolling this out.

SC
Grorious Reader
Mongorian Horde
#296 - 2015-11-20 23:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Grorious Reader
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Goals
  • Provide meaningful options within the module set

Changes
  • Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs



No. Just...wtf no. What could ccp possibly be thinking? Dictors already have infinite disruptor strength and are the only ship in the game that beats any number of warp stabs. Now you want to make them defeat every other means of escape too?! This ship class is already REQUIRED for small gang/fleet operations in null and WH. Now you want to give them a scrambler that has infinite strength and disruptor-like range? Just quit. Whoever came up with this idea, quit your job, go flip burgers somewhere where your terrible ideas can't do anymore harm. This change does not create interesting choices. It just makes dictors replace any other ship type for the purpose of tackling, and makes them even more required for every group PvP op. This change has infinite stupidity, and scrambles my brain.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#297 - 2015-11-21 09:41:54 UTC
Grorious Reader wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Goals
  • Provide meaningful options within the module set

Changes
  • Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs



No. Just...wtf no. What could ccp possibly be thinking? Dictors already have infinite disruptor strength and are the only ship in the game that beats any number of warp stabs. Now you want to make them defeat every other means of escape too?! This ship class is already REQUIRED for small gang/fleet operations in null and WH. Now you want to give them a scrambler that has infinite strength and disruptor-like range? Just quit. Whoever came up with this idea, quit your job, go flip burgers somewhere where your terrible ideas can't do anymore harm. This change does not create interesting choices. It just makes dictors replace any other ship type for the purpose of tackling, and makes them even more required for every group PvP op. This change has infinite stupidity, and scrambles my brain.


You need per ship one scripted generator... you can catch at least ONE ship, amazing... it will not ruin your PvP gameplay.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#298 - 2015-11-21 14:21:00 UTC
Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility.

Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge.

So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be **** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die.

Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#299 - 2015-11-21 14:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility.

Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge.

So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be **** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die.

Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere.

So exactly as I predicted and others had disagreed strongly against. Well I take no satisfaction tbh that my prediction was correct. Hopefully people are slowly beginning to understand that these are too powerful now.

By the way, even putting a 100mn AB on you won't be able to close range or escape the HIC, a BC will max out at around 1500 m/s with a oversized AB, and a HIC with a MWD running will easily outrun and out manoeuvre you. Cruiser and below with oversized ABs might be a good counter, although they will still have the issue of trying to out damage / tank the HIC which is not going to be easy at all given the huge EHP and decent DPS that HICs can put out.

So it seems like the best counter to a HIC will be another HIC. Did we not just get away from Ishtars online?

I am actually surprised though that a geddon with neut range bonus cannot have any effect, that leaves standard heavy neuts and anything with short range weapons with no chance. I expected that to be the case although I did expect the geddon to possibly be a good counter. Perhaps your opponent had low skills as it doesn't seem right that a geddon has no impact even if you are scramming at max range.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#300 - 2015-11-21 15:38:47 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility.

Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge.

So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be **** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die.

Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere.

So exactly as I predicted and others had disagreed strongly against. Well I take no satisfaction tbh that my prediction was correct. Hopefully people are slowly beginning to understand that these are too powerful now.

By the way, even putting a 100mn AB on you won't be able to close range or escape the HIC, a BC will max out at around 1500 m/s with a oversized AB, and a HIC with a MWD running will easily outrun and out manoeuvre you. Cruiser and below with oversized ABs might be a good counter, although they will still have the issue of trying to out damage / tank the HIC which is not going to be easy at all given the huge EHP and decent DPS that HICs can put out.

So it seems like the best counter to a HIC will be another HIC. Did we not just get away from Ishtars online?

I am actually surprised though that a geddon with neut range bonus cannot have any effect, that leaves standard heavy neuts and anything with short range weapons with no chance. I expected that to be the case although I did expect the geddon to possibly be a good counter. Perhaps your opponent had low skills as it doesn't seem right that a geddon has no impact even if you are scramming at max range.


In a 1v1 scenario, i see HICs as a non-issue. Worst case scenario, ill just slow boat back to gate. What im most worried about are the HICs with no guns, double plated with sebos waiting on a gate with their gang/fleet/camp etc. Or the one HIC that holds you for 30seconds till the rest of the gang gets there. That is my main concern. I see no counter to that short of blobbing the **** out of them in typical n+1 fashion. Which like you said, is ishtars online all over again.

As to the geddon, its a possibility that he was low skilled or poorly fit. So i wont say this is 100% confirmed. Still even if he only had 1 heavy neut. I could still keep point and tank him. This is still very bad news for things like ravens, phoons or any other BS that field only 1 unbonused heavy neut.

This is using my devoter fit as well. The Onyx fit i have uses 2 cap boosters and a pith large shield booster which is stable and still tanks around 800dps IIRC.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!