Skill Discussions

Your own comment "Nothing is safe"
You're right about that. And the fact is, that instalocks can happen in low, null, or hi-sec equally across the universe. You keep implying that null is more dangerous, but that's just not true.
CODE, mission griefers, high value ganks, high sec wars, faction wars. These things happen every day.

Your other comment "he trains faster because???"
He trains faster because he chooses to risk his implants, so he CAN train faster. He might choose to mine for a month so he can get some ISK together for the next campaign or he might choose to build ships for a month so his corp can have cheap ships. He might have gotten his implants from an LP store for doing 9785 missions. He might be a damn good pilot in a damn good crew of PvP pilots. But whatever the case, those implants are at risk every time he undocks.

Thousands of players join EVE so they can mine or haul or market or whatever at their own leisure. It may not be adrenaline they look for, it may be just the opposite, after a long day of real life.
Changing the game so that you can go fly suicide fights on an hourly basis, with no consequence, is what you're asking. It would benefit PvP pilots and hurt the more passive players. Having a fixed rate of training would impact newbs the most.
Having the option to train faster or slower is a GREAT mechanic.

I dont think you get it...

With Training skills (learning skills) the total SP to max them was 5,120,000 SP (If I recall).
The time period to get full benefit from that was 2years and some odd months. It was labeled as the 'pay back point' or 'break even point' for time spent training those skills.
If you didn't train those skills, you would have the equivalent SP in other categories in your first 2.4 years.
Those skills also gave a player options. Instant gratification or long term planning.

To say you gain nothing by using a blank clone is false.
What you gain, is a risk free clone. You can suicide that guy as fast as you can undock. You can suck up the enemy DPS like a sponge, and have zero ISK at risk.

The main 2 problems are:
1-Your idea would affect newbs adversely. Since new subscriptions are very important, that's just a bad scenario. The #1 complaint I see from them, is the skill point wall/catch up barrier.

2-It's a given that everyone can train/fight/die in +3's. (please tell me you're not hurt by the cost of +3's?)
So what your real concept revolves around, is +4's or +5's.
This is the part where players have an option to risk ISK for a slightly faster train time.
The game gives every player an opportunity to make ISK. They get to choose how they want to do that, and can even buy ISK through PLEX system.
I LIKE the option to train faster! I can afford to risk the implants, IF I choose my fights. If I miscalculate, I lose them.
I WANT my enemy to have the same risk of loss.

My one example would be:
If you ever played online poker, you know that the fake money sites, the players don't really play the same, because they have nothing to lose. They tilt, implode, suicide.
But the REAL MONEY sites, those players play differently. They play better, more consistent, more skill.
The risk of a real loss makes for a better game.

So:
1. You are serious about 40 million isk. That's sad, and you should be embarrassed to use that as a point of argument.
2. Under your plan, newbs would not have an option to train faster. They would in fact, train at the exact same rate as every other player. No chance to ever close ground on the older players. Even a 1 day older player would be 'uncatchable'.
3. Nobody is forcing anything on anybody. You have the exact same option for risk as every other player. If you want to train as fast as I do, MAN UP and risk something for it. Stop whining about 40 million isk. which brings me to
4. If nothing is a real loss, why are you still posting? Of course there are real losses. That's what makes EVE a good game.
You are starting to play your arguments from both sides of the fence here. Makes me wonder if you're trolling, or being purposely blind to the facts that have been presented.

I started my account.
Paid real dollars for it.
Then I created every asset it has with time spent in game.
I made decisions on which direction to take it, and sometimes they were bad decisions.


There's nothing strawman about any of that. It was first hand application and results.
The fact is, I am the ONLY user that can touch that account. It most certainly is my account, created by me, for me.

I could work at a job and earn 25$ an hour 7 days a week. My hours have a value, every one of them, every day. Time spent in EVE is valuable time.
I could work at a job, to buy PLEX. so I could buy a Wyvern or Nyx.
And guess what? That Nyx would cost me more than a set of used tires.
I most certainly can and do compare those assets.

Can you sell your Nyx for real dollars and buy yourself tires then? Or your character, or your account, or anything ingame?



That's the whole point. You're losing SP unless you splurge for implants. You don't really have a choice on the matter.

Don't plug implants in and get slower training. Don't tell me that anyone would consciously choose to train slower.

Putting a faction shield extender on your ship is a choice, with clear risk and reward. Training implants are not.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that being dettered by cost is a choice?

People DO consciously choose to train slower when they feel there is a clear benefit to doing so.

Having a deadhead clone gives some undeniable advantages. Being able to 'death clone' back to either your home system or school system at will is actually a pretty big deal.

Here's an example:

Let's say I've deployed with a group chasing content in some ungodly backwater in the far, far reaches of 0.0, 60+ jumps from my Home system and 45+ jumps from my School (I do and I have). The kind of place you need to use a taxi interceptor to get to first time around.

Let's also say I have friends who do regular roams staging not far from my School system (which I do), where I have a bunch of combat ships and a sweet Snakes/Genolutions/WhatHaveYou clone for playing shenanigans with.

I leave a deadhead jump clone and a couple of combat ships down in the aforementioned back of beyond.

Now, here's where the magic can happen. I get a ping saying there's a brawl brewing down in said backwater. I Jump Clone OUT of my +4s or Snakes or whatever down to my deadhead and go play pewpew with the locals.

During that fight, I get notice that my mates are forming up to go on a roam. Once the battle in the backwater is done, I can install a clean jump clone and death clone back to my School. I then jump in my pretty new Reaper and head off to pick up a combat ship and join my mates.

Now, I won't have the bonuses of my sweet clone that I leave there for these roams, but rather than miss out on spending time flying with friends, I can indulge in multiple battles across multiple regions fairly easily, with very low risk.

Once these things are complete and my Jump Clone timer expires (c'mon CCP, speed that up huh? Add in Advanced Infomorph Synchronising or something) I can then look at what's coming up and either jump back into +4s to keep training or I can stay in my deadhead for the moment until I have a clearer idea what's going on.

Sure, I train a little slower than I might for a day, but it's not the end of the world and I've been able to effectively jump clone twice in under a day and get into some sweet fleet fights (which is why I play anyways).

That's a pretty BIG benefit I've just gotten for 'choosing to train slower'.

That said, if I'm pretty sure I won't be doing either of those activities for a couple of days, I make sure I get back into my +4s ASAP.

If I'm IN My +4s and can't jump clone and a Call To Arms comes out? I just go anyways. 40m for 2x +4s is one and a bit 0.0 Forsaken Hub anomalies. I can have an alt running those in the background while I'm playing pewpew.

I agree that the attribute system kinda sucks balls for newbros who need to train Int/Mem, Per/Wil and Mem/Per skills, hell I AM still one of those newbros in many, many ways.

But I don't cry about losing a set of +3s, that happened when my HG Snakes got smartbombed

so what you are saying is if someone cant afford something it should be removed?

If someone cant afford to buy something then he cant afford it, simple isnt it? so why have this argument because some people can and cant afford to buy something, it doesn't affect the choice you have it only affects the availability