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Warfare & Tactics

 
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A kind request for metrics on warfare link use
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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2015-11-01 16:12:51 UTC
links are not the be all end all. they do give u an edge yes. but they wont win u every fight
Madrax573
Doomheim
#162 - 2015-11-03 03:42:41 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Madrax573 wrote:
If anyone actually quits because of links and OGB then they are not really cut out to pvp in eve.

It's not fair and better for it. Go play an arena style game if you want some thing remotely 'fair'.



There is nothing "unfair" about ogb. Anyone who wants to pay for an alt can get the huge bonuses.


It's just that it is no fun to play those alts. Of course, it might be fun for you. But on the whole OGB is not something ccp would ever want to advertise. "Hey look you can play this spaceship game and if you pay us an extra 15 dollars a month you can get an alt to drag around that does nothing but sit safely away from the battles your main character fights in, order to give him huge advantages." If you don't realize how terrible that sounds then you are out of touch. CCP is not out of touch so they know not to advertise this.


Oh i'm well aware of how this sounds that is why I don't even have alt characters on my one account. This toon and this toon only.

In the grand scheme of things yeah OGB give you ridiculous boosts when compared to the stock skill/module mechanics and in that respect they are way out of balance.

BUT

They are part of the game and really should be expected in certain areas. It doesn't mean you have use them and it also doesn't mean you have to engage people who are known to use them.

In all the years I've played eve and PVP'd I would reckon OGB affected maybe less than 5% of those fights. I just avoid engaging those who 'abuse' the use of OGB. Once you start talking fleet v fleet then pretty much the whole OGB argument just get blown out the window.

And back to my first point. If OGB make you quit eve when they are so easily worked around then you probably aren't cut out for eve style pvp in the first place.

Personally I'd like to see ALL Fleet bonuses (Skills, implants, OGB) removed from the game and get back to basics where you got the benefit of having more people rather than having X+ people due to boosts. But I am not going to quit over it.
Madrax573
Doomheim
#163 - 2015-11-03 03:44:50 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
links are not the be all end all. they do give u an edge yes. but they wont win u every fight


If links were in line with skill bonuses then not many people would be complaining about them IMO. It the fact that you get such 'big' bonuses that is my issue with them.

Other than that I couldn't really care about them much.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2015-11-10 13:35:29 UTC
Just for the record, I myself would love to see command ship link bonus get a BUFF and not a nerf. I think warfare links themselves are great. I just wish they was on grid. Some might say that if links had to be on grid in the fights, then 0.0 fights would not happen due to the natural large fleets that happen for SOV/citadel fights. Well to me that is an FC choice. Do I brings links and have an advantage or l do I bring more DPS/E-WAR/Logi. When 250+ pilot size fleets are trying to kill you. Things should explode. As we have seen in the past,. This big fleet fights can end is all manner of ways. But more often than not, what you end up seeing is just one fleet murder another without taken any losses at all. Links done change the big 0.0 fights in most case as almost always they all have off grid links. So if you was to take the links away from all fleets, The fights and end results would still end up the same.

Anyway, Lets not carry on about this. We are not going to agree.


But I still hold out hope for CCP to come up with my requested case study.

Oddsodz
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#165 - 2015-11-12 12:48:27 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
As has been covered, yes, boosts need to;

- Be on killmails (along with logistics).
- Gain suspect and weapons timer from the last agressed fleet member. Sec hit too?

With optional;

- Make them easier to probe.

This opens up more avenues of gameplay for others and risk for the booster at the same time penalising KB warriors. They will still be viable, but they will also be at risk from someone with far less SP in probing than the booster has in leadership and a much cheaper ship.


While these are really good suggestions (and have been brought up and refined by the community, pretty much everyone agrees these would help the situation), my issue with OGBs goes deeper. The main problem is the alt role. An OGB is not a playable role in a fleet, there's never been a main sitting in a safe spot running links while others fight on grid. And any role that is only played by an alt is terrible MMO design.

Links aren't the only mechanic that promotes Alts Online instead of Human Players Online, but along with cynos, one of the most prevalent and boring must-have alt things. Unfortunately there's only 3 solutions to this:

1. Remove them completely
2. Turn links into a deployable
3. Make links a playable role by turning them into targeted modules like RR

Only one of these preserves the accounts, characters and time/money invested in them, but it also requires a serious amount of game design to pull it off. However, this would create new gameplay, and one day we might see people who want to become fleet boosters, flying a command ship on grid and supporting their mates with expertly applied targeted boosts.

The often cited "bring links on grid" isn't a solution, they still remain a stupid must-have thing that's just slightly easier to lose.

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2015-11-12 13:17:27 UTC
if links were to be brought on grid, command ships would need serious buffing. then people would wine about command ships