These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why do off grid links exist?

Author
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#41 - 2015-11-11 23:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Abannans Forum Alt wrote:
still whining over an extra 15 dollars? lol


What if it becomes 3 accounts? Or 4? This is a bad trend. I don't want my chances at a game to be so heavily dependent on how much extra cash, on top of the initial subscription, that I'm willing to fork over to the developer.



That is the question the defenders of this bad mechanic never answer. Those who defend ogb seem to think dragging around one alt is fun. But why stop there? Wouldn't it be even more fun if you had to drag around 2, or 3, or 10? Or is it the case that paying an extra $15/month to drag one alt around is the "sweet spot"?


Scipio Artelius wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Calm down everyone. Boosters are moving on grid in the fall of 2016.

t3 boosters will lose a bit more ooomph and the tankier command ships will get a leg up.


And grids are expanding to be several hundreds of kilometres wider than they currently are (maybe even a few thousand kilometres).

On grid won't really change much for many people and the whinging will continue.


That may be true. It may also mean that the loss of players continues. Links would still be broken even if they were forced on the current grids. Honestly I have no idea what CCP was thinking the last time they "rebalanced" links a couple of years ago. Plenty of people told them they were still stupidly overpowered. I wonder if they have accepted that fact yet.

It appears they just suddenly realized the worm was overpowered (compared to most other pirate frigates) a few months ago even though people have been telling them its op for years.

I often just don't get how they do things and how long it takes them to recognize the obvious.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Verlyn
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#42 - 2015-11-11 23:38:39 UTC
Abannans Forum Alt wrote:
i pay for 5 v0v


World revolves around you doesn't it.
Stalking Mantis
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#43 - 2015-11-12 03:53:35 UTC
Links exist because so many people need as much advantage as possible fighting. CCP knows this and recognizes a cash cow. Many /l33t pvp pilots have their own OGB links alt. That is one more subscription for CCP.

So if you think CCP will kill a cash cow...think again.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Abannans Forum Alt
Doomheim
#44 - 2015-11-12 04:22:45 UTC
Verlyn wrote:
Abannans Forum Alt wrote:
i pay for 5 v0v


World revolves around you doesn't it.


yes it does this is why you keep quoting me
Reah Darknorth
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-11-12 04:44:51 UTC
Quote:
That is the question the defenders of this bad mechanic never answer. Those who defend ogb seem to think dragging around one alt is fun. But why stop there wouldn't it be even more fun if you had to drag around 2, or 3, or 10? Or is it the case that paying an extra $15/month to drag one alt around is the "sweet spot"?


this is a game of alts. the p2w is real.

but links are still the worst. the multiple account elites can keep their economic monopolies and their army of farming procurers. just let us the real players have real pvp that doesn't involve a p2w i-win button cloaked up off grid.

15 bucks aint a big deal

but its 15 bucks a month over the course of many months and eventually years, plus the plex you need to pay for the t3 or the hours of grinding to make isk to pay for it. ccp is rolling in the cash. you have to ask yourself if they even plan on doing anything about this or if they just plan on ignoring it and pretend it isnt there while of course graciously accepting the cash for it. if so we might have to start whining a little bit louder.

this is a problem that is worth discussing.

misguided posters like abannans forum alt can downplay the problem of links as much as they want, but it doesnt matter because were here to spread the truth.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-11-12 08:35:52 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Links exist because so many people need as much advantage as possible fighting. CCP knows this and recognizes a cash cow. Many /l33t pvp pilots have their own OGB links alt. That is one more subscription for CCP.

So if you think CCP will kill a cash cow...think again.


I don't disagree with this. It's just a **** overall trend in gaming. Developers already realize people will pay $ for stupid cosmetic stuff, might aswell let them also pay for actual in-game advantages. Not really my idea of fun but some people seem to have no issue with it.


Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-11-12 08:38:56 UTC
Reah Darknorth wrote:
Quote:
That is the question the defenders of this bad mechanic never answer. Those who defend ogb seem to think dragging around one alt is fun. But why stop there wouldn't it be even more fun if you had to drag around 2, or 3, or 10? Or is it the case that paying an extra $15/month to drag one alt around is the "sweet spot"?


this is a game of alts. the p2w is real.

but links are still the worst. the multiple account elites can keep their economic monopolies and their army of farming procurers. just let us the real players have real pvp that doesn't involve a p2w i-win button cloaked up off grid.

15 bucks aint a big deal

but its 15 bucks a month over the course of many months and eventually years, plus the plex you need to pay for the t3 or the hours of grinding to make isk to pay for it. ccp is rolling in the cash. you have to ask yourself if they even plan on doing anything about this or if they just plan on ignoring it and pretend it isnt there while of course graciously accepting the cash for it. if so we might have to start whining a little bit louder.

this is a problem that is worth discussing.

misguided posters like abannans forum alt can downplay the problem of links as much as they want, but it doesnt matter because were here to spread the truth.


Well people like Abannan and Crosi who have invested time and money training or buying a booster don't want to see them go awat, any more than some cap pilots wanted to see skynet go away. It's understandable. I just wish they could look past their narrow self interest to see how badly overpowered OGB is compared to every other form of advantage and even every other conceivable alt setup in the game.
Switch Savage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-11-12 10:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Abannans Forum Alt wrote:
chances are, the guy who killed you with links would've probably killed you without them too


Some of us would relish the opportunity to find out. And some of us seem to be afraid to do so. I'd rather face off against a player's skill than their willingness to spend more dollars on the game.


In other news, my corpmates are presently flying a Svipul that, with links has 40k EHP, two neuts, a 45m sig radius, does 4k cold in prop mode and over 400 DPS cold. CCP can't release decent ships because links make them batshit insane.


Talking out your backside.

A two faction MSE Svipul with shield links is 33k ehp. 4k cold is only possible with a Zors AND Mid grade grade snakes on top of links. I highly doubt you have those stats and two small neuts and even if you did you would not have range control as well due to needing x2 MSE to even get close to "40k ehp". Sig radius is about right but you don't have a AB (even over prop) if your doing 4k cold and thus cant keep decent transversal on anything with a web.

As always you over exaggerate to suit your argument. Not saying a Svipul is not broken but quote some proper numbers next time.

The only fit i can assume your talking about is that ******** one that wastes three lows for Power Diags to get a increase of 4k ehp. If it is that fit then its not even close to "400 dps cold".
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2015-11-12 10:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
switch is correct but i wont believe it impossible with some bling to achieve that speed. might be wrong

pretty sure in prop mode my svipul does over 3k (around 3.5k iirc) with a compact mwd (i think) so fitting permitting a bling mwd might get 4k.

then again u definetly wont have room for 2 neuts without a fitting rig therfore reducing the ehp.

but i think bling mwd's are harder to fit than the compact and space on the fit is tight as is.
Switch Savage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-11-12 11:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Reah Darknorth wrote:
Quote:
That is the question the defenders of this bad mechanic never answer. Those who defend ogb seem to think dragging around one alt is fun. But why stop there wouldn't it be even more fun if you had to drag around 2, or 3, or 10? Or is it the case that paying an extra $15/month to drag one alt around is the "sweet spot"?


this is a game of alts. the p2w is real.

but links are still the worst. the multiple account elites can keep their economic monopolies and their army of farming procurers. just let us the real players have real pvp that doesn't involve a p2w i-win button cloaked up off grid.

15 bucks aint a big deal

but its 15 bucks a month over the course of many months and eventually years, plus the plex you need to pay for the t3 or the hours of grinding to make isk to pay for it. ccp is rolling in the cash. you have to ask yourself if they even plan on doing anything about this or if they just plan on ignoring it and pretend it isnt there while of course graciously accepting the cash for it. if so we might have to start whining a little bit louder.

this is a problem that is worth discussing.

misguided posters like abannans forum alt can downplay the problem of links as much as they want, but it doesnt matter because were here to spread the truth.


Well people like Abannan and Crosi who have invested time and money training or buying a booster don't want to see them go awat, any more than some cap pilots wanted to see skynet go away. It's understandable. I just wish they could look past their narrow self interest to see how badly overpowered OGB is compared to every other form of advantage and even every other conceivable alt setup in the game.


It would irk me slightly if links went away as it would narrow my options for engaging large gangs solo. At the end of the day though eve is not a solo game and I would adapt my play style as required.

@ Bastion: You are not getting 4k m/s cold without snakes or gimping the lows/rigs to speed mods for no reason. Bling will not help this.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2015-11-12 12:08:14 UTC
yes, with snakes and zors ofc
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#52 - 2015-11-12 14:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Links exist because so many people need as much advantage as possible fighting. CCP knows this and recognizes a cash cow. Many /l33t pvp pilots have their own OGB links alt. That is one more subscription for CCP.

So if you think CCP will kill a cash cow...think again.



It is hard to deny this possibility. It is, of course, myopic to think making players pay more money in order to engage in the very tedious work of dragging alts around will really help make money in the long run. But if they really werent that short sited why did ccp not truly rebalance this horrible mechanic when they did a passover a couple of years ago? Why don't they do something now until they can be on grid and figure out something better?

I know lots of people blame their pet peeve for the decline of players. But as a player all I can do is voice my own opinion. And there is plenty of evidence that many many players feel the same way. Whether this is the sole reason for someone to quit or just a reason they are not so enthused with EVE, even though they still play it, we get all sorts. That is why this issue keeps coming up. Its hard to say no one really cares about this issue and then complain that the issue keeps being raised. How many players just left the game when they realized how broken small scale pvp had become in this game? I can't answer that but given the feedback from players this is a substantial problem with the game.



Edit:
As far as quibbling about the numbers it should be clear to everyone that the December rebalance changes, where we take a few cpu or agility here or there for the ships changed, is just silly as compared to the advantages boosts give. Just think if the svipul had those stats without links but the other t3s were as is.

I see many people justifying links by saying eve is not a solo game. But I can say solo pvp used to be allot of fun in this game.

And btw snakes are not a big deal for low sec once you learn to get your pod out.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-11-12 15:09:05 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Verlyn wrote:
Abannans Forum Alt wrote:
still whining over an extra 15 dollars? lol


Yea sure, so force the layman to pay double to be able to compete.

You're also an idiot.


Or find someone who is willing to follow you around in a OGB. It is an MMO after all.


Come on you're smarter than that. People use alts for these roles because they are tasks no human player would be willing to perform consistently, + the alt is at your command 24/7.


If some were willing to pay me enough, I'd do it.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2015-11-12 15:12:14 UTC
Reah Darknorth wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Verlyn wrote:
Abannans Forum Alt wrote:
still whining over an extra 15 dollars? lol


Yea sure, so force the layman to pay double to be able to compete.

You're also an idiot.


Or find someone who is willing to follow you around in a OGB. It is an MMO after all.

Congratulations! That's the dumbest thing I've read all day.

Edit: Sorry for being rude, but seriously...


Oh? Then you must be new to the forums, but your reaction is exactly why people do have an extra account with an OGB alt.
Reah Darknorth
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2015-11-12 16:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Reah Darknorth
what is your point?

i guess we could pay someone to follow us in a tengu. i mean its possible. but what does that matter? we can still train an alt and do it ourselves, or buy one from the character bazaar, and links are still broken.

and my reaction is "exactly why people do have an extra account with an OGB alt." ?

what does that even mean? im pretty sure people use links because they are advantageous in pvp.

some of you need to try writing down actual coherent thoughts that pertain to the discussion.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2015-11-12 18:33:18 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/iI1pOh5.png

links coming on grid?
Arla Sarain
#57 - 2015-11-12 18:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Bastion Arzi wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/iI1pOh5.png

links coming on grid?

Instant primary ship.

Doubt those will ever be fit with links. Haven't seen how many highslots they have, but even being relatively easy to get into and obtain, they will likely be easier to probe probe down with the fewer amount of midslots they are likely to have.

Putting them with active links on grid is subject to painful headache of adjust fleet hierarchy mid fight if they are headshotted.

P.S. Preemptive "the gallente one is going to be OP". No highslot commitment for anything other than links, along with skirmish links.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2015-11-12 18:54:32 UTC
yea the gallente and minmitar ones look like they will be the most popular. wish i had more info
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#59 - 2015-11-12 20:02:48 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Links exist because so many people need as much advantage as possible fighting. CCP knows this and recognizes a cash cow. Many /l33t pvp pilots have their own OGB links alt. That is one more subscription for CCP.

So if you think CCP will kill a cash cow...think again.


I don't disagree with this. It's just a **** overall trend in gaming. Developers already realize people will pay $ for stupid cosmetic stuff, might aswell let them also pay for actual in-game advantages. Not really my idea of fun but some people seem to have no issue with it.




The other game I play online is chess. Often you need to pay a subscription to play online chess. I guess the same reasoning would go that if you don't pay an extra $15 a month you will have to play without one knight. I guess that would be a way to squeeze your customers, if people would actually put up with it. So far most chess websites have realized chess players won't put up with that. But then again chess players are notoriously cheap.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-11-12 20:06:18 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Links exist because so many people need as much advantage as possible fighting. CCP knows this and recognizes a cash cow. Many /l33t pvp pilots have their own OGB links alt. That is one more subscription for CCP.

So if you think CCP will kill a cash cow...think again.


I don't disagree with this. It's just a **** overall trend in gaming. Developers already realize people will pay $ for stupid cosmetic stuff, might aswell let them also pay for actual in-game advantages. Not really my idea of fun but some people seem to have no issue with it.




The other game I play online is chess. Often you need to pay a subscription to play online chess. I guess the same reasoning would go that if you don't pay an extra $15 a month you will have to play without one knight. I guess that would be a way to squeeze your customers, if people would actually put up with it. So far most chess websites have realized chess players won't put up with that. But then again chess players are notoriously cheap.


You will just see more of it as developers realize they can get away with it. You already see examples here.

"MUH P2W superboosting pet is fair because everyone can buy one!"