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HIC skill 6x
cruiser is 5x
Propulsion Jamming 3 x
Graviton Physics 5x
Science 1x


each 1x is ~256k lp. are all skills needed at 5 to make good use of the hic (only way to get the 37km scram from t2 mods)

at 100% efficiently would need 20x skills or ~5 120 000sp for all of it. which is just over 10 packs. which in its self pushes a new toon over the mark where they get the skill packs at 100% efficient

and most people have either some of that or all of that already trained. Crusier 5 is very common and one of the first "long" trains many new players do.

I have grav 5 hic 4
alt has grav 4 hic 5
other alt has grav 0 hic 1. I guess ccp changed the reqs to train it at some point. but it will be a quick train to 4/4. and on my other two chars I could probably get the other to 5 if I really cared before this goes live, worst case shortly after.

According to eve-board http://eveboard.com/statistics/ships 19252 pilots can fly an Onyx The least popular is the Devoter with 17918. I would assume there is a lot of overlap. Although there appear to be some oddities in the ship data. "14083 pilots can fly all Interdictors" but then under each individual ship the numbers are between 3527 - 4906. My best guess is the ship reqs got changed and the code on eveboard didn't get updated? Those dictor pilots are pretty close to being in a hic. Also that is just the pilots on eveboard.

using TSP for that does sound a bit iffy, and the other question is when will (if?) that even hit. doubt it would be worth it beyond maybe boosting a level or two of one of the skills.

with grav 4 hic 4 you still get a 32.4km scram with a hic and meta wdfg. and with grav 5 (so t2 wdfg) hic 4 36km. Yea I have doubts about all level 5 pilots being common. But still 30+km scrams are pretty damn strong.


when hics have the WDFG they can't receive remote assistance, so current mechanics mean you cant RSEBO or RR a hic while it is bubbling or pointing. The thing is you can rsebo or rr the hic before it activates the WDFG so it can quick lock something and then infinite point. To deny remote assistance for simply having a WDFG equipped would probably be too strong of a drawback.

I also share this concern. I could actually see RLML Onyx gangs being a thing. That has almost as much to do with the RLML as it does with anything else. Still, good luck to any Sabre, Interceptor, Garmur, or other small tackle ship within 37.5km of an Onyx or group of Onyx's. The Broadsword, Devoter, and Phobos will have a harder time applying DPS to small things (without support), but the Onyx will not.

I am sort of assuming that CCP has a specific reason for choosing 37.5km as the maximum range for the HIC's scrambling effect. For example, what are the planned ranges for the capital stasis webifiers, warp disruptors, warp scramblers, etc? What are the planned ranges for capital neutralizers? All these things are important considerations.

It might make sense to rationalize the entire warp scrambling, disrupting field in light of the new capital class modules. Honestly, one of the larger and more refreshing changes CCP could impose on Eve would be a rethinking of all weapon ranges, ship speeds, locking ranges, etc. The whole system is currently very syncretic, after years of adjusting by different developers with different theories of ship design philosophy.

So, yes, the Devoter might be an issue as well. My Devoter fits FMPL II's with a 33+6 Scorch range. And it can carry two flights of light drones.

Dual propulsion might become very important for certain fleet tackle setups.

I don't think people realise how strong it is to have extra scram range over your opponent. By using it defensively you basically get complete range control. A HIC with its MWD active will have the speed advantage over any other ship in the game when a scram is applied.

So with the range control advantage you are forced to engage the HIC at range, this will be around 35km. What this means in its essence is that anything that cannot out damage and out tank a HIC at that range will either be dead or at best will be held in place until the fight escalates.

I don't think many in this thread are understanding this fact; every extra KM of scram range you give a ship means it is pushing more and more ships into a position where they are in a position where they cannot engage. At 37.5+km you have pushed the majority of ship in eve into this position as they cannot out damage a HIC at this distance.

There will be a couple of counters such as a rapier and arazu combo for example, although these counters are too few and far between, and a lot of them will be pushed out of being able to engage due to not being able to break the HIC tank without backup.

Hopefully this summarises the crux of the issue in its essence.

(I just thought of a possible solution for keeping the 37.5km scram range - when the HIC focused point is active it disables the HICs propulsion modules, this would severely diminish the ability of the HIC to use its scram defensively, although would still allow it to pin a target from range giving fleet members enough of a chance to apply a scram to the kiter. This would be a perfect solution as the HIC would retain its role as an amazing fleet tackler without making into a solo monster)

Oh yeah. That penalty is fine. It's not like a Hictor might need reps at all, especially not when you're tackling a super in low with a buddy Hictor and trading off activations to keep yourselves alive. Hictors definitely don't die enough in their main role, the definitely need to be the kind of ship that not only do you bubble yourself half the time, but when you're not bubbling yourself you are still going to die anyways because you can't get repped.

I meant applying to RSEBOing only

Or keep the scram range but make it so that the HIC cannot activate a propulsion module with it active. That would still be a heavy nerf to kitey ships without it negatively impacting everything else.

36KM scram on a massively tanked cruiser feels a little bit broken to me. Honestly if people are so concerned about the "kite meta" simply toning down the point range bonus on the Garmur + Orthrus fixes many complaints.

RLML boats aside the current kiting window is between 30-40KM. 36KM scram HICs reduce the margin for pilot error to zero. Because when an Arazu or Lach lands on you there is a fighting chance of dropping it before the backup lands (Prot is a different story).

But hey, these things will be great for camping gates at least!

If the changes go through as is I will have tons of fun messing around with HICs (once I get through the 2 month train to fly them lol). Also a stealth buff for the Sansha ship line!

You have that backwards: